Kmcalpin

Some good points made above. Unlike many I have no problem with the current in vogue phrase "hoofball". Ok I do prefer open football on the deck but I can live with it. My gripe though is that we aren't playing it well and don't have the players to do it effectively. I agree that our single biggest worry is midfield and thats costing us. Since the beginning of last last season we have had no pace or creativity there. Its been good to see Cadden and Campbell emerge from the youth set up but due to a heavy domestic schedule last season and increasing international commitments (more on the way I believe) both are suffering from burnout. Cadden has regressed and Campbell is nowhere near the player he was last season. No manager will achieve a 100% success rate with transfers and Robbo has had some success but his summer recruitment in principle and in practice was wrong and we're nowing paying a heavy price.

A lot of truth in this but we are missing pace and creativity in the side. I've now had second thoughts about Bigi. I don't think he's good enough to play consistently. Against the better sides he's just not performed and the defensive side of his game is very weak. In order to play him we have to pick the other midfielers to compensate for him and I don't think he's good enough to justify that. As far as the defence goes, yes they are all too similar and we have missed Kipre's physicality, positional sense and pace badly.

This has been going on for some time Iain. In the recent home defeat to Hearts, Carson openly berated Bigi for not defending and Hartley and Robinson had a few words to say to each other. A feature of our play this season is that the midfield has left the central defence and Carson very exposed at times. At Livingston it was clear that Bigi is no defender; his attacking play masked defensive frailties but of late he's not been contributing creatively either. On another forum someone commented that Robbo's comments after the game were uncharacteristically downbeat and on here someone commented that the players weren't playing for Robbo. Taking these observations together from different sources do suggest that something isn't right off the field. Thats normally a bad sign for a manager.

Stephen Robinson achieved a lot last season and made some decent signings but his transfer approach over the summer is now looking to be in tatters. We are on a bad run and don't look as if we know how to get out of it. He's under a lot of pressure now and he's got maybe 4 games to get him and us out of the mire. If we can't take say 10 points from our next 5 games then I'd say the Directors will have to make a decision and if they don't then the fans will do it for them. Next Saturday is a must win end of. its not just the the number of defeats but also the manner of them which is concerning. Robbo has something in the bank for getting us to 2 cup finals and staving off relegation but thats rapidly evaporating.

Whatever the final score, losing 4 goals on Wednesday and 3 today is not acceptable.

Absolutely Weeyin. Yes, it'll be hard but we must go out fired up for a win. A change in attitude, personnel and perhaps formation will be required. I think now our 3-5-2 formation is a busted flush and we need to go 4-4-2. However formations alone don't win games. The midfield needs to work far harder when we're not in possession but not run about like headless chickens. They need to be more organised. Ideally I'd like to see them set up camp 40 yards from our goal and prevent Killie from seeing the whites of our defence's eyes. Carson should be protected at all costs. Unnecessary corners and easy crosses cut out. Close down Killie's midfield and smother them the way Hearts did to us. The defence would certainly benefit from more protection. I'd be happy to play the long ball to our strikers as long as its the right type of long ball ie for them to run onto. Do I think we'll play that sort of game? No. The bottom line is though we need to treat this as a winnable game.

No red cards on Wednesday night.

Just watched the highlights of the Hearts game and they're not quite what I expected. Apart from Heart's 4th goal when we were chasing the game, the first 3 were characterised by very, very poor defending. Ok they were well taken. The midfield sat far too deep and depsite that, Hearts found acres of space in and around our penalty box. Even at the first when Bigi messed up the organisation and general defending was shocking. Not quite the individual blunder I previously thought. Probably the worst goal from a defensive point of view was the third - a good finish but again Hearts were given acres of room - a classic lesson for every schoolboy on how not to defend. No-one looked to be in charge or organising at the back. Maybe we missed Hartley more than we thought. The defending looked so bad you wouldn't know where to start rectifying it. The one positive bit was Bowman's goal- an absolute cracker.

I wasn't there last night and so can't comment on the game but your points above could apply to almost any game this season. Other sides with similar budgets like St Johnstone, Accies and Livingston make opposing sides work very hard indeed to cross balls or approach their penalty areas. We don't for some reason. Is it down to lack of organisation or lack of effort when not in possession or wrong tactics or players? Our defence hasn't been great this season and I myself have criticised them on occasion but by god they receive no protection from our midfield. Game after game they're left exposed and its no surprise that cracks appear and goals are lost.

Fair comment. Its still only late September but I do question some of our summer signings. Gillespie and Johnson look good, whilst one or two others like Gorrin remain untested. Aldred? I like him as a player but not as a replacement for Kipre. To me he and Hartley are similar and its disappointing that after an injury to one defender, Dunne, we have to move McHugh back. ATS I don't get. I expected him to slot in, albeit after a a long term injury but he just doesn't seem to have impressed. Sammon? I agree that we needed another striker but not him. Hindsight is a great thing but we could have still improved the fringe squad slightly but also brought in another decent striker and centre back. In ohter words brought in slightly less but better quality players. Lads like Maguire and Turnbull can do a turn if only in an emergency. Bigi is a real enigma to me. On his day, against lesser teams, he can provide some creativity but struggles against better sides. He's no defender though. Still he is what he is and Robbo will pick him or not knowing his strengths and weaknesses.

We just don't work hard enough off the ball. Same old failing. At least we won't face extra time. A small mercy.

An interesting back 3. Not the biggest defence or indeed team. We'll see how they fare against a physical Hearts side (apologies to the media). We need to get in their faces and work very hard when not in possession. COYW.

Mark Gillespie? Tom Aldred?

I didn't quite see it that way. Thought he was referring more to our energetic high pressing game?

As far as I can tell its: 1986-87 Celtic Lost 1990-91 Morton Won 1995-96 Clydebank Won 1996-97 Alloa Lost 1997-98 Inverness Won 1999-2000 Raith Rovers Won 2003-04 Forfar Lost 2011-12 Hibs Lost 2014-15 Hamilton Lost 2018-19 Stranraer Lost

I too would settle for a win on penalties Andy. However our record for these shoot outs is very poor.

Thats pretty much it for me. Our first 11 is weaker than last season (no Kipre or Moult) and we have suffered bad injuries. Strength in depth is better though. Yes, our team is set up defensively and to get results with that you need a couple of players in midfield with pace and a good striker. It might mean, for a club like ours, that we need to splash out a bit more than normal to land one. Our strikers do get a hard time. We need to wait until the first round of fixtures are complete before we take stock but I don't completely buy the "lack of budget" argument. Sides like Livingson, Accies and St Johnstone are doing better on similar budgets to ours. Going back to yesterday's game I see that Hartley has taken some stick for losing his man but for me, the defensive midfield is even more culpable. We were stting too deep and the Aberdeen player who makes the pass is not put under any pressure by midfielders who stand off, Bigi being but one (not singling out Bigi BTW but he's no defender). Thats the kind of goal we were losing for years before Robbo arrived. Did the players learn nothing from last weekend where Hearts players wouldn't allow us near their box and swarmed like flies around any of our players who had the ball. The fixtures haven't been kind to us so far but the next few games are going to be crucial.

Am I right in thinking that the game turned into a physical battle in which we came off second best?

A fair summing up. I was expecting bit more from Bigi but it just didn't happen. I thought we did have some alternatives in Gorrin and Turnbull but they weren't used. Thats not to say of course that they would have been any more successful.

I take a different view. Yes both teams were committed but that doesn't guarantee entertainment. I wouldn't say it was a hammer and tongs game at all. For the first 20 minutes, maybe slightly more we saw some end to end stuff but after that Hearts were content to sit back and defend in depth and hit on the break. We had plenty of possession but hadn't a clue where Hearts' penalty box was and our players wouldn't have known if they'd a keeper on the park or not.

We more than matched them for the first 20 minutes or so but after that? The loss of the goal and its manner took the wind out of our sails. After half time they elected to defend in depth and show us their glass jaw. In truth they defended as well as I've any side do at Fir Park against us in the past 3/4 years. In part they looked good perhaps because we were so poor in the final third. We struggled to get anywhere near their box and any potential cross was smothered by 2/3 or even 4 players. We then resorted to square passing and lumping aimless balls into their box only to be gobbled up easily by a huge defence. Despite all our pressure we failed to register much in the way of efforts, on or off target, let alone trouble their goalie, who had nothing to do. Yes, maybe we were unfortunate but Hearts were the better side and looked a class above us, never having to move out of 3rd gear. As in many games these days the loss of the first goal was crucial.

As soon as the two teams took to the field it was obvious we were going to come off worst in any physical or aerial battle and so it proved. The mere sight of Ikpeazu and Dunne brought me out in a cold sweat and that was before kick off. We started off brightly and played well for the first 20 minutes or so but missed 2 or 3 decent chances which were to prove very costly. Then came the defensive blunder and Carson's injury, which completely changed the course of the game. I've yet to watch the action replay but by all accounts, Carson was not a happy man at what took place. Hearts then gradually took command and their pace and our lack of caused us problems. In the second half, Hearts created a good few chances but fortunately didn't convert any of them. We applied plenty of pressure but it no way troubled a great Hearts defence and we found it almost impossible to get into their box let alone trouble their keeper. We were totally toothless and devoid of ideas. Pumping high balls at their huge defence was always going to end in tears. Our midfield was pedestrian and lacked in ideas, Bigi included. I was a bit confused by our two subs. Yes, Cadden wasn't effective but what was Frear going to offer against a deep lying defence? He proved as unable as Cadden at beating 2 or 3 smothering defenders. Bowman was never going to beat their physical defence. Maybe Gorrin or Turnbull would have added something a bit more creative. The 2 defences were poles apart in terms of effectiveness. I like both Aldred and Hartley but think they're too similar and I think they and McHugh were bullied. Hopefully Hartley and Robbo have settled their very public differences amicably afterwards. Ikpeazu, for all his unsavoury antics, proved too physical for them to handle. At this level one mistake is all it takes to win or lose a game and we made it; Hearts didn't and never looked likely to. As many posters know, I like our sides to be strong and physical but in today's game we were always going to come off second best. I refuse to believe that players like Ikpeazu and Dunne are only selected to play against us, despite what the media would have us believe. They'll be selected week in week out - thats the style that Levein likes, sorry Sportsound. I agree with you Iain that we have too many players playing out of position. Hopefully the management team will have learnt a few lessons today to take forward into upcoming games. Whilst our 12-16 may be stronger than last term, our 1-11 is weaker.

We can't turn the clock back but we certainly missed Cedric today for his pace and physicality. Our back 3, McHugh included, had a poor game and were too easily bullied. Against better sides that defence will struggle badly. Individually they may be ok but as a unit they aren't right.

We missed chances early on too but yes we were well beaten by a bigger and better side. Hearts are too good a side to resort to such gamesmanship. That aside they're the best side I've seen this season.

Null vote for me. Felt a bit sorry for our our strikers as they were up against a mountainous defence and received shocking service by and large.