Kmcalpin

A morale sapping defeat yesteday but we can take 2 positives from such a match...no one carried off and no one stretchered off. Despite having some new players, Accies played exactly how we have come to expect them to - very combative and streetwise. As the game wore on into the second half and we bored the Accies keeper through inactivity it became more and more likely that they'd snatch the winner and so it came to pass. We've seen this type of game at Fir Park countless times before. I think Robbo made some critical errors in team selection and tactics especially in midfield and up front. Cadden was wasted at right wing back; it just wasn't Rose's type of game; Johnson ought to have started and Sammon was misused as an out and out target man which he isn't. I'd like to have seen Frear start, when his pace might have been slightly more useful. Substitutions were odd although I understand why Rose and Campbell were hooked. As for the players, no one single player was to blame lets make that clear. However as Mintymac says they were all worth maybe 4 or 5 out of 10 individually. We certainly missed the pace of Dunne and Kipre at the back and the latter's physique was sorely missed. McHugh was no worse overall than Hartley and Aldred at the back but lost a helluva lot of headers in the first half. The combination there just didn't seem right. Midfield was where our real problems lay. The mix of players wasn't right. Players who can charge up and down the park like Cadden and Rose aren't much use against a deep lying defensive formation and so it proved. Campbell was not his usual combative self at all and even shirked a couple of challenges. Not surprised when he was taken off. I agree with Mintymac about Bigi - and his expression "flattered to deceive" was exactly what I thought. Tried to play on the deck and, apart from a couple of flashes maybe, didn't actually do anything. Being fair though, perhaps he is not match fit. Main and Sammon were entitled to feel hard done by as the service they were given was crap no other word for it. The strikers then? I agree that Main and Sammon don't appear to play well together. Despite his size, Sammon is not a target man and likes the ball at his feet. So why pump high balls at him all day? Even with what poor service they were given both strikers were ineffective. Like Campbell, Sammon shirked a couple of 50/50s but maybe understandable given his relationship with the referee and Ziggy Gordon. Presumably Sammon was given a new shirt at half time and Gordon will be billed for the cost of damage. We could have played till next week and not scored. Despite enjoying the lion's share of possession we failed miserably to get decent crosses into the box (credit to Accies for denying us the space and time), let alone get efforts on target. Massive improvement needed next week in what's shaping up to be a crunch game. Someone please tell Robbo its a plastic pitch at Livingston and we have to adapt our game accordingly.

As far as I'm concerned, Robbo still has a bit in the bank from his achievements last season. However, that goodwill will peter out if our poor run continues into the end of September or perhaps slightly earlier if other rival teams leave us adrift at the bottom. Early days though and no cause to panic, although yes I have concerns.

It might actually have benefitted us yesterday as Accies won more than their fair share of headers.

I'm surprised by the downbeat reaction of some posters to yesterday's debacle. Yes we have the habitually glass half empty ones who are negative tonight but we also have the sensible/normally positive ones too who are concerned and also, and even more to my to my surprise the ones who normally criticise others for being negative. That worries me.

Null vote from me. A bad day at the office. We move on.

Of course not. However its far too early to make judgements. Our new acquisitions will take time to settle in and we won't be able to arrive at an informed opinion for a month or two yet. Mark Gillespie: not seen much of him so far but seems fine in the little game time he's had. Aaron Taylor-Sinclair: not match fit after recovering from a long term injury. Don't think he's played a full match yet? Remember Charles Dunne last year? Tom Aldred: played well last season but hasn't kicked a ball yet. Can't judge him. Christian Mbulu: hasn't kicked a ball yet. Can't judge him. Longer term prospect? Liam Donnelly: just getting up to match fitness. Brought in as cover but a bit mixed so far. Too early to judge. Alex Rodriguez Gorrin: not had much game time yet but looks ok so far. Danny Johnson: again not had much game time but looks promising. Conor Sammon: no world beater but done ok so far scoring aginast lower league opposition. Not the type of player I nor most fans thought he was ie he's more of a footballer. I'm not saying for a minute that all the newcomers will be a success; some will some won't. Robbo has concentrated more on building squad depth certainly but there's no point in taking medicine for a condition you may not have at all or if you do have it, don't even know what it is.

Just in case anyone has missed it, the club has asked season ticket/card holders to turn up a bit earlier this afternoon as its the new entry system's first test for real.

These were teams managed by John Hughes - right? Granted Falkirk were relatively successful in that period but they certainly didn't play good football. That was100% a media inspired myth. I watched them on several occasions in that period and not once did I see them play entertaining football. On at least 2 occasions they reminded me of a team of thugs. Even Falkirk fans were bemused at this media label. Hibs paid far higher wages than us and have done for years. Last season Dundee were widely lauded as being one of the most cultured/attractive sides in the Premiership but I have to say I saw very little evidence of it. In the cup game at Dens they looked a brutal (in the traditional sense) and undisciplined lot, but that side of their character, of course, was never publicised.

We've just finished the group stages of the Friendlies League Cup and played one league game, just the one. Quite a few of new lads are still gaing fitness. Lets wait until January at the earliest and preferably May next year until we make that judgement.

Granted, it does seem a lot, but Dunne will be out for almost half the season. McHugh is probably seen more as a central midfielder and so that leaves us for the time being with 5, including one raw youngster (hopefully he'll get some game time) to play a 3-5-2 formation.

And he'd be quite right. If we aren't up for a battle, Accies certainly will be. As Martin Canning knows only too well its hard to play good flowing football if you're not in possession, or being hassled and closed down. We have to have players on the pitch who can bite, scratch and claw in a battle of a game. But... I hope we'll also have a few better footballers out there too. Its about balance. By way of comparison, all of last season's top six are quite capable of biting, scratching and clawing when they need to. If we ignore the dirty, nasty stuff and try to play good open football with the limited resources we have at our disposal then Accies will win it. But, as I say, its about balance and I'd like to see a place in some role for the likes of Frear, Johnson and Bigi/Gorrin.

A big lad, at 6-3, with pace. Where have we seen that before? He'll be tested in the reserves first obviously.

Like you pleased that Aldred is coming back for season long loan. That'll add to our defensive capabilities and cover. However, maybe its a bit premature to close this thread. Robbo talked about 2 more signings, of which Aldred will be one no doubt. I don't see him as being a like for like for Kipre though. Assuming that the other signing, if there is one, won't be a goalie, midfielder or striker then he would be a defender. Yes, keep this thread open for now.

By way of an aside Aston Villa has signed John McGinn from Hibs for...................an undisclosed fee. So its not just our Directors who are trying to hoodwink and deceive the fans.

Yes but their transfer income went everywhere except the club itself.

If we have, then we can expect the redtops screaming blue (sorry) murder that we're being selfish and are denying the player a chance of a lifetime.

Its exactly that... a vaguely worded rumour printed in the Sun.

Generally agree but what happens when Hartley is match fit and Dunne returns? The new guy, assuming there is going to be one, needs to be different to the other guys in the heart of the defence. Only Dunne possesses pace at the back. Neither Hartley nor McHugh are particulary big guys so wer'e a bit short of pace and physique at the back. At our level you don't generally get guys with pace and physique - usually one or the other. Kipre was an exception. It'll be interesting to see what kind of defender(s) we sign. Like Yassin I assume that Aldred, for whatever reason is simply not coming back not now not ever.

Just watched the highlights. Hibs deserved the 3 points but not by a 3-0 margin. The first goal resulted from a refereeing error. There's no way that a handball should have been given against Hartley. He also received an undeserved yellow card which will count against him and us later on in the season. Danny Johnson's "goal" was chalked off for Conor Sammon being in an offside position and presumably distracting the Hibs keeper, although the latter took no part in the move. Some refs give them some don't but on this occasion Hibs got the rub of the green. Hibs 3rd goal was typical of the way we used to lose goals - no midfield protection for the defence. Although Madden didn't influence the result he did influence the scoreline. But at the end of the day we were poor and thats why we lost. Some posters on here remarked that we played narrowly. So whats new? We habitually play like that, irrespective of how many midfielders we play, and have done so for years. Hibs' second could have been straight out of the Stevie Hammell era. I suspect quite a few players, like Cadden and Main are carrying knocks and therefore not physically fit whilst others like Taylor-Sinclair and Hartley are not match fit. I suppose you could argue that Main and Cadden should have been rested and there's some truth in that. We should judge the players at the end of next month maybe and cut them some slack.

Not sure about that. Robbo said that Bigi isn't looking to get back south so I don't think there's any evidence of us persuading him to stay or of us using him more. Interesting that Robbo said that we only had 2 fit defenders today ie Donnelly and McHugh.

We need to calm down folks. A poor result yes but we had quite a few players out injured or suspended and others are not match fit. Had we tried to match Hibs and go toe to toe we'd have been on the wrong end of a real hiding. This is no time to panic. Our season was always going to start next weekend against Accies. Yes it seemed a defensive line up and no doubt our aim was to go for a draw but we simply didn't play well enough or possibly work hard enough.

According to the good Captain on Pie & Bovril, Alan Burrows has tweeted that Cedric's down payment fee is the 3rd largest in the club's history. So, on that basis it must be roughly between £800k and £1.25m. Also, we hope to sign more than one player shortly. Hope I've read that correctly. The English window closes on Thursday (very sensibly) so the next few days should be interesting.

No idea but as you say likely to be like for like. We need someone different to what we have to achieve abalance. Maybe a young guy with height and physique and possibly pace? Dunne apart we lack pace at the back and although Hartley and McHugh are decent defenders they aren't a dominant centre back in the way Cedric was.

I'm not Kmac but yes, you're right. We cannot rely on the youth stepping up. They can be encouraged but there's no guarantee. Some will succeed, some won't. Its not all about talent its also about character and as SR said thats why youngsters are loaned out - to put them in competitive and pressure situations and test them. SR, KL and SC see these lads day in day out and we don't. In a way its a similar situation to Bigi - SR & KL have their reasons for not playing him and they know him far better than we do.

As far as I know, and I stand to be corrected on this, Les will only match monies raised by the fans, and not the club. As for team building, we have improved depth of cover and not the calibre of our first pick 11. That should prove imporant during spells of injuries and suspensions, like now. Time will tell on that and the new boys should be given time. Ordinarily though I'd like to see us target our weakest position every year and strengthen it, thereby raising the overal standard of the team.