Kmcalpin

Great post Alan. I'm sick to death of reading about "our wee club" or "punching above our weight". Irrespective of how bad or good we are we should always look to improve and learn from our mistakes.

To quote Lobey Dosser "Who is at fault for failing to organise friendlies? Who is at fault for failing to replace 3 of our highest earners in advance of a lucrative tie against part time opposition? Answer these questions and then you can then turn your attention to the shortcomings of management and players. Not for the first time, McCall has got his preparation and tactics for a cup game horribly wrong but he has been hung out to dry this summer. " Yes these are all legitimate questions which I myself have been asking. It may be that Stuart McCall has been knocked back by the powers that be on various factors - we just don't know. What is clear now is that our Euro Cup exit was a disaster in the making. Overall I agree with El Grew. Stuart McCall joined us with a mixed track record and that has continued at Fir Park. As far as the league is concerned he has done extremely well - no argument from me on that score. However as far as cups and other competitions are concerned he has done very poorly, probably disastrously. The deciding factor for me though is the long running serial weaknesses which he has been unable or unwilling to address. We all know they include a leaky defence, an imbalanced midfield and latterly poor goalkeepers. Over the past 2 close seasons we've seen questionable 2 year deals handed out to Steve Hammell, Keith Lasley, Paul Lawson and Bob McHugh (for various reasons). Probably now time to change direction. I believe that the management team are contracted for a further year. It is up to the club management how the next 12 months and longer are handled.

St Johnstone seem to be doing ok on a more limited budget. The problem with youth systems is that you have to take long time horizons, unless you're like Dundee United. The success or otherwise of our current set up won't become evident for another 4/5/6 years. You mentioned Mark McGhee - any benefit he reaped was based on the work of his predecessors. We're now reaping the rewards of his input. Of the young players we have released how many have gone onto better things?

I'm not overly impressed with Stuart Carswell. To me he's developing into another Marc Fitzpatrick. A good engine on him but designed more for endurance than speed. Does a lot of routine spade work but that's it. Last week, unlike most I thought he had a mixed game. A better second half than first admittedly; but guilty early on of getting caught on the ball too often and poor distribution. Don't know about last night. The jury is still out on him in my view.

Good post Iain. However the difference is that those in charge at Fir Park, unlike us, have to lead and manage the club and just as importantly build up fans' morale. The last thing we need to hear just now is the now infamous Maurice Malpas response "If I'd been a fan I'd have walked out too". Going into the new season, someone at the club needs to show leadership.

A lot of truth in that Greg. Last season I was castigated for questioning Keith Lasley's 2 year extension. It was an easy option in my opinion. I don't know about Josh Law but all the others you mention lack pace and the club knows that. There's also not a single defensive midfielder amongst them.

Whoever gets the job will have their work cut out after last night. The fans are on a real downer and the club cannot afford to ignore that. Going into a new season some morale boosting is definitely required.

Just watched the goal. A good strike but it caught Twardzik out badly. It was almost straight at him. Our midfield was notable by its absence in closing the scorer down.

All the anger and frustration on here is understandable ( I almost threw my tablet through the window), but what we need to do now is to calm down and undertake a rational review in the cold light of day.

A very poor result and questions will need to be asked but now is not the time. Wait until the ice has settled and we can get objective reports from the fans who travelled. We'll need cool heads.

Pretty much my thoughts. No disrespect to Stjarnan but we really ought to beat them. If we can't, questions ought to be asked.

Pretty much agree with that. I understand the decision to leave was mutual. If Faddy has got that much left in him he won't be signing for Partick.

As far as UEFA is concerned each country has its own standards (and they are all different). A club has to comply with its country's standards. Make sense of that if you can. The club has challenged this in the past.

Er no. They've signed a few players from Queens Park and refused to hand over any development fees. As you all know Queens are amateurs and as such not legally entitled to any fee. However I think almost every club that has dealt with them has a gentleman's agreement to pay them what they would be due. United sign these young lads on big money & long contracts and the rest is history.

I picked up this link last night from Twitter. Its a Scottish Government survey being conducted by Stirling University to find out fans' experiences at football matches. I posted it on this club section, and not on the General football section, given the experiences of the Well Bois last season - probably especially relevant to us. Questionnaire isn't worded particularly well but that's no reason not to give our views. https://surveys.natcen.ac.uk/mrIWeb/mrIWeb.dll?I.Project=P1577_OBF

Just about to say the same thing. Police may also have dictated this.

Information given to me by a former Director of the club. We will have been liable for some external policing costs. Apart from policing there would have been stewarding, wages for employees, energy costs etc.

Your figures are probably about right. Say 4,800 fans at an average of £20 a head ...that's £96,000 gross. Normally costs are about 33% of the gross income for game; so that would make them come in at about £32,000. Don't know if VAT is included in costs or not. Certainly the VAT payable on ticket sales is about £19,000 - in other words £4 of every ticket on average is lost in VAT. The club will have made about £60,000 on the night excluding catering/programmes etc.

John Ruddy was languishing in Everton's third or fourth string and his career was going nowhere when we picked him up. Darren Randolph had fallen out with Charlton Athletic when we found him. Decent keepers abound in England's reserve and lower league teams - you just have to have an eye to spot them.

Presumably you are member of the Society and if so you should email it and ask that very question.

A tad harsh I'd say as Twardzik has still to be fully tested. However our recent selection of goalkeepers, since we signed Darren Randolph, has been questionable at best. We haven't been good at bringing young goalies through our ranks for years now.

We requested the first leg of the current tie to be played at home due to Commonwealth Games pressure on accommodation and UEFA accepted that. We may do so again but UEFA would not need to accept that request. I don't know UEFA's position if the Police stepped in and said the first game WOULD not take place at home - presumably they would need to comply.

We have a slightly bigger budget. They have gone for a different type of squad from us. No stars, with the exception of the homegrown May, just hard working, experienced physical, reliable types. A streetwise side. Very few of their lads have come through their own youth ranks. They're not as talented as some of our lads but they don't have our weaknesses.

Seconded. Despite Darren Randolph's stature in the SPL keepers of his calibre are ten a penny in England. We've gone from having one of the best keepers in the SPL to having one of the weakest. Is there no in between?

Not sure about Thomas, at this stage, but I agree with your general point. Playing with one out and out striker was tantamount to shooting ourselves in the foot. Erwin should have started or been brought on at half time. John Sutton cannot play on his own up front - how often do we have to learn that lesson...............