Kmcalpin

We'll know for sure in 3/4 years time. Certainly something has gone wrong with our youth system in past years, and especially since John Park left, although he was a hard act to follow.

Some good posts on Fir Park Corner just now. One particular one concerned Stuart McCall. His contract is up for renewal at the end of this season. He'll be looking around and we should do the same. He has achieved much in the league but has made just too many cup cock ups. One particular criticism that seems to carry weight is that he doesn't learn from his mistakes. I'd give him this season to see if he can change that and lead us to a degree of success in the cups (draws permitting). By that I don't necessarily mean winning silverware although that would be great. Personally I'd be prepared to sacrifice a very high league finish for strong performances in the cups. Irrespective of the above, some kind of review needs to take place this season to examine the way the club is run. We seem to be making just too many mistakes on and off the field.

At 2-2 we were never going to win on penalties, so yes attack was our best option, but only if you have attackers on the pitch. As we all know this game threw up a number of questions. One I'd like to add is whether or not we had a representative at the Starnjan V Bangor game as both SM and KB were in Portugal - bad planning in itself. The occasional Cup cock up is hard to take at the best of times but they happen to us just too frequently and are proving very costly indeed. We've probably now racked up somewhere £1m and £2m in recent years. The club could have used that cash. This warrants some kind of review surely?

I would never criticise or belittle any Well fan for following the team. If anything I admire their dedication. If that is your attitude you must seriously question why you visit these boards.

So we entered extra time looking for a goal with the only attacking players being Sutton & Vigurs, with Keith Lasley playing up front!!! Incredible.

True to a point, but that's only part of the picture. It wasn't addressed in our cup defeats to Rangers, Aberdeen, Albion Rovers, Celtic and Starnjan.

Great post Alan. I'm sick to death of reading about "our wee club" or "punching above our weight". Irrespective of how bad or good we are we should always look to improve and learn from our mistakes.

To quote Lobey Dosser "Who is at fault for failing to organise friendlies? Who is at fault for failing to replace 3 of our highest earners in advance of a lucrative tie against part time opposition? Answer these questions and then you can then turn your attention to the shortcomings of management and players. Not for the first time, McCall has got his preparation and tactics for a cup game horribly wrong but he has been hung out to dry this summer. " Yes these are all legitimate questions which I myself have been asking. It may be that Stuart McCall has been knocked back by the powers that be on various factors - we just don't know. What is clear now is that our Euro Cup exit was a disaster in the making. Overall I agree with El Grew. Stuart McCall joined us with a mixed track record and that has continued at Fir Park. As far as the league is concerned he has done extremely well - no argument from me on that score. However as far as cups and other competitions are concerned he has done very poorly, probably disastrously. The deciding factor for me though is the long running serial weaknesses which he has been unable or unwilling to address. We all know they include a leaky defence, an imbalanced midfield and latterly poor goalkeepers. Over the past 2 close seasons we've seen questionable 2 year deals handed out to Steve Hammell, Keith Lasley, Paul Lawson and Bob McHugh (for various reasons). Probably now time to change direction. I believe that the management team are contracted for a further year. It is up to the club management how the next 12 months and longer are handled.

St Johnstone seem to be doing ok on a more limited budget. The problem with youth systems is that you have to take long time horizons, unless you're like Dundee United. The success or otherwise of our current set up won't become evident for another 4/5/6 years. You mentioned Mark McGhee - any benefit he reaped was based on the work of his predecessors. We're now reaping the rewards of his input. Of the young players we have released how many have gone onto better things?

I'm not overly impressed with Stuart Carswell. To me he's developing into another Marc Fitzpatrick. A good engine on him but designed more for endurance than speed. Does a lot of routine spade work but that's it. Last week, unlike most I thought he had a mixed game. A better second half than first admittedly; but guilty early on of getting caught on the ball too often and poor distribution. Don't know about last night. The jury is still out on him in my view.

Good post Iain. However the difference is that those in charge at Fir Park, unlike us, have to lead and manage the club and just as importantly build up fans' morale. The last thing we need to hear just now is the now infamous Maurice Malpas response "If I'd been a fan I'd have walked out too". Going into the new season, someone at the club needs to show leadership.

A lot of truth in that Greg. Last season I was castigated for questioning Keith Lasley's 2 year extension. It was an easy option in my opinion. I don't know about Josh Law but all the others you mention lack pace and the club knows that. There's also not a single defensive midfielder amongst them.

Whoever gets the job will have their work cut out after last night. The fans are on a real downer and the club cannot afford to ignore that. Going into a new season some morale boosting is definitely required.

Just watched the goal. A good strike but it caught Twardzik out badly. It was almost straight at him. Our midfield was notable by its absence in closing the scorer down.

All the anger and frustration on here is understandable ( I almost threw my tablet through the window), but what we need to do now is to calm down and undertake a rational review in the cold light of day.

A very poor result and questions will need to be asked but now is not the time. Wait until the ice has settled and we can get objective reports from the fans who travelled. We'll need cool heads.

Pretty much my thoughts. No disrespect to Stjarnan but we really ought to beat them. If we can't, questions ought to be asked.

Pretty much agree with that. I understand the decision to leave was mutual. If Faddy has got that much left in him he won't be signing for Partick.

As far as UEFA is concerned each country has its own standards (and they are all different). A club has to comply with its country's standards. Make sense of that if you can. The club has challenged this in the past.

Er no. They've signed a few players from Queens Park and refused to hand over any development fees. As you all know Queens are amateurs and as such not legally entitled to any fee. However I think almost every club that has dealt with them has a gentleman's agreement to pay them what they would be due. United sign these young lads on big money & long contracts and the rest is history.

I picked up this link last night from Twitter. Its a Scottish Government survey being conducted by Stirling University to find out fans' experiences at football matches. I posted it on this club section, and not on the General football section, given the experiences of the Well Bois last season - probably especially relevant to us. Questionnaire isn't worded particularly well but that's no reason not to give our views. https://surveys.natcen.ac.uk/mrIWeb/mrIWeb.dll?I.Project=P1577_OBF

Just about to say the same thing. Police may also have dictated this.

Information given to me by a former Director of the club. We will have been liable for some external policing costs. Apart from policing there would have been stewarding, wages for employees, energy costs etc.

Your figures are probably about right. Say 4,800 fans at an average of £20 a head ...that's £96,000 gross. Normally costs are about 33% of the gross income for game; so that would make them come in at about £32,000. Don't know if VAT is included in costs or not. Certainly the VAT payable on ticket sales is about £19,000 - in other words £4 of every ticket on average is lost in VAT. The club will have made about £60,000 on the night excluding catering/programmes etc.

John Ruddy was languishing in Everton's third or fourth string and his career was going nowhere when we picked him up. Darren Randolph had fallen out with Charlton Athletic when we found him. Decent keepers abound in England's reserve and lower league teams - you just have to have an eye to spot them.