Well Well Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 I'm a huge fan of McCall. Mind, he's still the same manager who gave us a 3rd place finish and 2 SPL runners up spots, has two numerous point tally records, turned 'useless lumps' into 20+ goals a season strikers, has highest top flight win ratio... I'm sure there is more. Aye, knock out competitions have blotted his record here but I think it's absolutely scandalous how much our fans underestimate what he's done here. That said, I do wonder if he's the right man for the job now. I think he's certainly got the managerial skills and enough ability in the squad to turn things around and get us comfortably in the top 6. I've got absolutely no doubt he gives 100% every day. What I do doubt though, is whether his heart is truly still in it. I believe him when he says he's not a careerist manager but job satisfaction at Motherwell must be pretty low after crowds and budgets continue to dwindle despite success on the pitch. I think he's probably a bit scunnered and Motherwell as a longer term project simply doesn't have the same appeal now, and I believe that's be rubbing off on the players. As I said at the start, I think Mccall is on the whole a fantastic manager. But if his love for the job here has diminished, he'd be better giving someone else a crack. This has been my thinking for a while now. I also think his backroom staff especially Kenny Black should have these guys fighting fit and working their asses off. However I don't think Black is that type of coach and doesn't crack the whip when it is needed. Having watched a few training sessions they don't appear stressed physically at all when they finish. Not saying they should be crawling out but they should look as if they have been put through the mill. Maybe I am just not up with modern training techniques and they don't put as much emphasis on physical conditioning anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 And Hammell. And McManus. Lasley, I'll give you. McManus and Hammell are only 32, a two year deal is not unreasonable if they look after themselves. With any player over 30, poor form can be assumed to mean that the player is past it when it might simply be a poor run of form. Which McManus is clearly in. Hammell hasn't played enough games this season due to injury to get any consistency. Again, at his age, the concern then becomes if recurrent injuries are going to be a problem. Hammell has played enough games over the years to not jump to that conclusion yet. Obviously if these problems continue, then it's a worry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 I'm a huge fan of McCall. Mind, he's still the same manager who gave us a 3rd place finish and 2 SPL runners up spots, has two numerous point tally records, turned 'useless lumps' into 20+ goals a season strikers, has highest top flight win ratio... I'm sure there is more. Aye, knock out competitions have blotted his record here but I think it's absolutely scandalous how much our fans underestimate what he's done here. That said, I do wonder if he's the right man for the job now. I think he's certainly got the managerial skills and enough ability in the squad to turn things around and get us comfortably in the top 6. I've got absolutely no doubt he gives 100% every day. What I do doubt though, is whether his heart is truly still in it. I believe him when he says he's not a careerist manager but job satisfaction at Motherwell must be pretty low after crowds and budgets continue to dwindle despite success on the pitch. I think he's probably a bit scunnered and Motherwell as a longer term project simply doesn't have the same appeal now, and I believe that's be rubbing off on the players. As I said at the start, I think Mccall is on the whole a fantastic manager. But if his love for the job here has diminished, he'd be better giving someone else a crack. I accept everything you say here but there is also other factors that must be taken into consideration. First of all McCall has achieved these records in an all time low standard top flight. The records still stand of course but the quality of team we have been playing over the last few years has been very low and when you consider that last season we huffed and puffed to quite a few undeserved victories and had various colossal slices of luck in the last 3 or 4 matches of the season to achieve second it doesn't make it look quite so good. The city clubs over the last few years have been a complete shambles, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, all flirting with disaster. Even the 'improved' Aberdeen and Dundee Utd of last season and this season have been very inconsistent. Ask yourself what great, or even good, sides did we beat to achieve those positions in the league and that answer was none. McCall inherited a pretty good team that really picked its self and when we have been at our best I think the influence of McCall has actually been minimal. Any Motherwell fan could have picked the team certainly two seasons ago when we played our best football and went through the season with few injuries. When McCall has actually had decisions to make things haven't quite gone as well. He may have man management skills but it's a lot easier to man management when the team is winning and everyone is happy. Recently he's come across as quite tetchy and although its not confirmed it looks as if he has lost some of the players. I'm sure he gives 100% every day but I'm more concerned about ability over effort. At the end of the day his record is there for all to be seen but I feel like things have gone quite stale this season and a change is required anyway, even if we get out of the relegation mire. Not many managers are at clubs for 5 seasons these days and I think modern football demands a turnaround so that fresh ideas and contacts can come into a club. In the current crisis I think McCall's record should give him a little bit more time to turn things around although looking at the performances of the team I don't think he will be able to do it. Give him perhaps until December, then I'm afraid the consequences of relegation overshadow McCall's past achievements and he will have to go. Even if we do climb the league I think McCall and the club should part company at the end of the season. Currently our average home attendance is 4,047. It could be that come the end of the season it's down in the 3,000 thousands if performances don't pick up. Economics will play a bit part in this. If we lose against Dundee Utd and Celtic the home attendances could collapse at a time when the club desperately needs money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Stuart Mac should explain to the Motherwell fans why he didn't think David Clarkson is good enough for us. Also what the feck goes on at training as we seem unable to run.Defend.Score goals.track midfield runners.In fact just about everything required to play and win a game of football. In fact Stuart Mac should BE FECKIN SACKED!!! He never said Clarkson wasn't good enough. He said he didn't think he was the kind of striker we needed. Plus we still have Moore to come back into the squad later in the season. Given that Sutton and Erwin were crying out for an Ojamaa type support player and we brought in Ojamaa, I don't have any big disagreement with that. The problem is it hasn't worked out - but you can at least see the logic behind that thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 At least we still have the Faddy goal that relegates us to look forward to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 I accept everything you say here but there is also other factors that must be taken into consideration. First of all McCall has achieved these records in an all time low standard top flight. The records still stand of course but the quality of team we have been playing over the last few years has been very low and when you consider that last season we huffed and puffed to quite a few undeserved victories and had various colossal slices of luck in the last 3 or 4 matches of the season to achieve second it doesn't make it look quite so good. The city clubs over the last few years have been a complete shambles, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, all flirting with disaster. Even the 'improved' Aberdeen and Dundee Utd of last season and this season have been very inconsistent. Ask yourself what great, or even good, sides did we beat to achieve those positions in the league and that answer was none. Can't argue with the facts. As you say we were up against pretty poor standards but I think we need to give our club some credit here. If everyone was poor, then there are reasons for it. We were less poor than everyone else. The old saying goes, you can only beat whats infront of you and considering resources, support, investment, we have done a sterling job of late. McCall inherited a pretty good team that really picked its self and when we have been at our best I think the influence of McCall has actually been minimal. Any Motherwell fan could have picked the team certainly two seasons ago when we played our best football and went through the season with few injuries. When McCall has actually had decisions to make things haven't quite gone as well. That super team that we had, how many do you have to inherit and how many do you have to bring in yourself before it's your own team? Remember, the sum is greater than the parts and that team, for all its prowess, did not click into gear until McFadden came on board. I'm thinking that of the starting 11 of that team, Ramsden, Law, Ojamma, McFadden, Higdon, were all McCall players? So, just under 50%. He might not be responsible for the other 6, but he certainly recognised what they needed to supplement the skill base at the club and bring in the required talent. In the current crisis I think McCall's record should give him a little bit more time to turn things around although looking at the performances of the team I don't think he will be able to do it. Give him perhaps until December, then I'm afraid the consequences of relegation overshadow McCall's past achievements and he will have to go. This I agree with. None of us are privy to the exact financial state the club is in on a day to day basis, but we have all seen the press releases and heard about the annual accounts. If relegation would be the final nail in the MFC coffin then we certainly can't afford to gamble if there is any hint McCall has lost the dressing room. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW1886 Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 The "I'll take a poor league campaign in return for a cup run" brigade seem to be falling by the wayside. There were several people making that statement at the start of the season so surely they should be giving McCall until the Scottish Cup capitulation that they are all expecting.... For me, I think he's better than he's given credit for. He's delivered consistently high league finishes so he must have something to offer. However, the team look devoid of any fight or desire just now and if you credit McCall for instilling this in previous seasons then you have to criticise him for this lacking now. By the same token, several people feel that the league finishes were in spite of him, so the current malaise can't all be his fault then.... Listening to some of the support on Saturday, I think the only thing that is going to appease them is McCall's departure. The frustration of the fans is being taken out on the players which I don't think is helping. Thirty seconds into the game on Saturday and the guy behind me had ripped into Vigurs for a lack of effort... 30 seconds! By ten minutes he'd ripped into Lasley, Sutton, Ramsden, Twardzik, Francis-Angol and Leitch - all within earshot of the players. Who is that helping? 30 seconds gone, and in fact I'd touched the ball more than half the team courtesy of Francis-Angol's slice and Vigurs is getting told to "get yer fuckin' finger out". Madness. My gut feeling is that McCall will be relieved of his duties dur to growing fan pressure, but it may be a case of not knowing what you have until it's gone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 My gut feeling is that McCall will be relieved of his duties dur to growing fan pressure, but it may be a case of not knowing what you have until it's gone.... People keep saying this, however, they never mention where we will find the compensation money if we let him go before his contract is up. Unless he walks, we can't afford to sack him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Maybe we can't afford to sack McCall but the time is fast approaching when we can't afford NOT to sack him. Relegation would be armageddon for Motherwell. I like McCall. I want to continue to like him, but I also like to see Motherwell not not look up for it after 1 game....and 13 games later look worse than ever with not even the slightest signs of any discernible plan. The players look to have chucked it after the Stjarnan debacle and we haven't had a response yet. Our previous 2 games have been against teams who hadn't won in 5 and/had lost 4 on the bounce and beat us with their key players missing and makeshift teams with great ease. The correct areas on the team needing strengthened have been neglected for 2 summers running and the option to sign a former favourite player was incredibly passed up on only for him to prove to McCall exactly what he's passed up on in some style on Saturday. That one will stick in the craw for many a day. Not signing Clarkson (yet signing Josh Law) is a major nail McCalls coffin for me. The fans are getting extremely worried and concerned at the utter keech we have been served up for 13 games running that now sees the club sitting in an extremely precarious position. The back four on Saturday (which boasts a former Celtic and Scotland captain) was as bad as anything I've ever seen at any level in football. We've a right to ask questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 if the club think there is a serious chance of us getting relegated this season they will get rid of mccall regardless of compensation costs as the thought of relegation is too dire to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 if the club think there is a serious chance of us getting relegated this season they will get rid of mccall regardless of compensation costs I hope he will take ginger bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 I just feel that he'll be here till the end of the season. Would like to see his no 2 Black sacked asap. The players fitness and tactical awareness this season has been abysmal.Would be happy to see McManus and Lasley in a joint management team once McCall goes. As longs as they dont play themselves unless they can improve dramatically. We need things to change we are stale and lacking just about everything required to win a game of football. We're getting humped by Partick.StJohnstone.Dundee and Accies and an Icelandic amateur mob. What will happen if we play a decent team.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 What will happen if we play a decent team.... Thank god there are no decent teams in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 The whole Clarkson thing amuses me and just goes to highlight the mentality of our never happy fans. Clarkson scored & set up another goal on Saturday but probably took more abuse from our fans when he actually played for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 well scott w I can see why he criticises vigurs !!!! cause from where I watch from hes ok going forward except for his final pass which is mostly shite but he is one lazy barstewad at tracking back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 the sooner we play vigurs in a position that best suits him and the team the better,expecting him to make things happen from left midfield and still track back clearly doesnt suit his game,id happily see us go 451 with vigurs in behind ojamma as i think they two linking up in the right areas could start to help us get out the mess were in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Good point about faddy and Clarkson .In my opinion I would give the mananger until Christmas to turn things around. He has earned that much over the last three seasons.IMHO. Yeah, Christmas seems like a fair enough timeframe in my opinion. I'd like to see a tried and trusted face, such as Tommy McLean come back to the club. Not sure he would though. Anyone know if he'd be interested? He ever mentioned wanting a return to top flight management? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 The "I'll take a poor league campaign in return for a cup run" brigade seem to be falling by the wayside. There were several people making that statement at the start of the season so surely they should be giving McCall until the Scottish Cup capitulation that they are all expecting.... Fans in favour of this argument are willing to sacrifice consistent league performances for a good cup run. However, there has to be an element of promise in league performances to indicate that we are beating anybody from Celtic to Albion Rovers 'on our day'. It would take a helluva leap of faith to think this current Motherwell regime could go on a cup run. At present, we are watching one of the most disorganised and arguably unprofessional Motherwell team's that I can recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 I think bringing someone in short term ,aka craig broon ( or that type ) but not tommy mclean as I think he s not in touch / up to date on currant players in the leagues etc but I see where your comeing from !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Yeah, Christmas seems like a fair enough timeframe in my opinion. I'd like to see a tried and trusted face, such as Tommy McLean come back to the club. Not sure he would though. Anyone know if he'd be interested? He ever mentioned wanting a return to top flight management? Having read his autobiography, McLean still seems to feel he has something to offer. Personally he'd be my choice right now. With Leitch alongside him. I know Leitch has his detractors but given people praise how fit we were when he was number two under McGhee, he might fit the bill right now. Right now, we need a manager who will make us hard to beat because it's all a bit too easy for our opponents at the moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 I'd like to see a tried and trusted face, such as Tommy McLean come back to the club. Anyone know if he'd be interested? Wee Tommy would whip them into shape, and would probably guarantee us top flight football next season. However, given his age (late 60s?) he would probably be better suited to mentoring a younger boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 This Tommy McLean fella that's being eased into McCall's chair. Did a bloody good job didn't he? Won promotion, kept us up (with some good fortune in league reconstruction) won the Cup got us into Europe. Top stuff! But wait..... It kind of went a bit tits up after that didn't it. Utterly miserable season in 91'92 that saw some horrible defeats in local derbies, a very low placing in the league and deflating European exit. And the following season was even worse with us being detatched at the bottom of the table and fans protesting outside the ground. What would have happened if the board hadn't held their nerve and gave McLean their backing? What would have happened if we hadn't got that break against Falkirk with their daft Cockney goalie losing the plot that helped us get that confidence building result that inspired a fightback? You probably wouldn't have seen one of the finest Motherwell teams of a generation assembled over the next two or three seasons for a start. There's a lesson in there if you choose to look hard enough. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Wee Tommy would whip them into shape, and would probably guarantee us top flight football next season. However, given his age (late 60s?) he would probably be better suited to mentoring a younger boss. Only three or four years older than Van Gaal, or if you're looking for a Scottish example, Jim Jefferies. Younger than Alex Ferguson, Trappatoni and Capello. Perceived as "old-fashioned" maybe but then so was Craig Brown when he came in (incidentally Brown was two years older than McLean is now when he became manager of Motherwell). No wish to see McCall lose his job but if he does, for me there's only one candidate for the job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 ^ out of every potential manager who has a coaching badge in the UK, theres only one candidate??? Come on, you can make a better case for someone than pulling out that kind of outrageous statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 .....there's only one candidate for the job... Luc Nijholt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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