2022/23 ins & outs discussion

[MJC]

31 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

^I'd say that those signings are more a reflection on the performance of our head of recruitment. Stevie had very little time before the end of the summer window but the recruitment chap should have identified a number of targets way in advance irrespective of the managerial situation.

Without doubt, I’ve long said that our recruitment is absolutely diabolical and needs to improve drastically. However signings are attributed to the manager and those two signings reflect poorly on Stevie Hammell.

[Mad Dog]

2 minutes ago, MJC said:

Without doubt, I’ve long said that our recruitment is absolutely diabolical and needs to improve drastically. However signings are attributed to the manager and those two signings reflect poorly on Stevie Hammell.

From that point of view I can agree with you: Stevie probably has the final word on signings and he is the one who has to face the media rather than Burrows or the recruitment chap who is so anonymous that I can't recall his name.

 

[sinjy]

36 minutes ago, ML1 said:

Its early days nobody can be blamed for the lack of action so far , players we are in for often have options of Killie , St Mirren , St J and others down South and wont make a decision until late on in the the window ,

And there is the problem. Who would you sign for, an experienced manager who has been around the block or a novice with a novice assistant who have very few contacts in the game. Hammell's August signings showed he had little or no contacts, brining in two ex players who were crocks and an academy player he had worked with who had no first team experience. It will be interesting to see who he manages to persuade to come to us but I am not expecting much.

[Stevie73]

12 minutes ago, sinjy said:

And there is the problem. Who would you sign for, an experienced manager who has been around the block or a novice with a novice assistant who have very few contacts in the game. Hammell's August signings showed he had little or no contacts, brining in two ex players who were crocks and an academy player he had worked with who had no first team experience. It will be interesting to see who he manages to persuade to come to us but I am not expecting much.

Spot on

[Kmcalpin]

Its important for us to get some new faces in as quickly as possible but, no doubt our ability to get players to sign on the dotted line is dependent on our postion in the food chain and it might be later before we can secure anything.

In asnwer to GrahamH,  we did have alternatives last summer, albeit very limited. We could have passed on Rolando Aarons and Louis Moult to sign, on loan, one more reliable incomer. But, we're all wise in hindsight.

Regarding our recruitment, the manager will direct the Head of Recruitment and have the final say on signings. However, it looks as though managers may decide to bring in their own men who they know.  For example, Graham Alexander with Josh Morris and Stevie Hammell with Rolando Aarons,  Louis Moult and Stuart McKinstry.  They don't look like Nick Daws signings.

 

[Yorkyred]

I honestly don’t see a change of tact from the club regarding recruitment. Everything will still be within budget, no major loosening of the purse strings, league of Ireland, lower league down south, better championship level in Scotland  to carry on being the norm. I know it’s not want people want to here but it’s been that way for years and the club have made it very plain they won’t go overspending again. So for me as stated before as well as maybe two or three fairly predictable level signings the main thing is improving what we already have before it’s too late.

[MJC]

1 hour ago, sinjy said:

And there is the problem. Who would you sign for, an experienced manager who has been around the block or a novice with a novice assistant who have very few contacts in the game. Hammell's August signings showed he had little or no contacts, brining in two ex players who were crocks and an academy player he had worked with who had no first team experience. It will be interesting to see who he manages to persuade to come to us but I am not expecting much.

Exactly, it will be very difficult for us to attract players in this window, it always is in January but with a rookie manager? Even more difficult. That is why Hammell needs help from those above him at the club, both in scouting and financially. If that means pushing the boat out further than the club’s comfort zone* then I’m all for it if it is the difference between relegation and survival this season.
 

*And by that I am not suggesting that we spend £1M + or anywhere near it before any of the “punching waaaaaaay above our weight” brigade drench their knickers.

 

 

[wellfan]

52 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Its important for us to get some new faces in as quickly as possible but, no doubt our ability to get players to sign on the dotted line is dependent on our postion in the food chain and it might be later before we can secure anything.

In asnwer to GrahamH,  we did have alternatives last summer, albeit very limited. We could have passed on Rolando Aarons and Louis Moult to sign, on loan, one more reliable incomer. But, we're all wise in hindsight.

Regarding our recruitment, the manager will direct the Head of Recruitment and have the final say on signings. However, it looks as though managers may decide to bring in their own men who they know.  For example, Graham Alexander with Josh Morris and Stevie Hammell with Rolando Aarons,  Louis Moult and Stuart McKinstry.  They don't look like Nick Daws signings.

 

So what's the point in Nick Daws?

[Spiderpig]

10 minutes ago, wellfan said:

So what's the point in Nick Daws?

Surely the final say on who signs for the club is down to the manager, the board sort out the cash available, the recruitment team or person ie Daws identity possible targets within our budget etc and recommend players to the manager. However if SH does not like the player, thinks they won't fit into the team, does not rate them etc then they won't be signed.

So various individuals have a part to play in bringing new players in but the final decision falls to SH.

[smiddy]

i would think by now we must have been knocked back by a few players and we are now going further down our LIST  of potential targets    so the quality may be getting less  

[Kmcalpin]

47 minutes ago, wellfan said:

So what's the point in Nick Daws?

Spiderpig gives a good summing up. In most cases, I'd guess, Nick Daws will scout players according to the manager's shopping list i.e. position and type of player. Occasionally though, the manager may want to pursue targets he's identified, or knows, himself. Thats quite reasonable. It won't be a rigid, inflexible approach. It doesn't need to be one or the other.

[smiddy]

see our NEW striker is starting  tyler smith  is starting for hull today  heez no 22

[smiddy]

Just now, smiddy said:

see our NEW striker is starting  tyler smith  is starting for hull today  heez no 22

ERROR hahaha see our new striker TYLER SMITH  is starting  for hull today no 22   a need to stop drinking  ( TEA )

[Dossertillidie2]

9 hours ago, wellfan said:

So what's the point in Nick Daws?

Think many of us have been wondering this since alexander brought him in 👀

[Dossertillidie2]

10 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Its important for us to get some new faces in as quickly as possible but, no doubt our ability to get players to sign on the dotted line is dependent on our postion in the food chain and it might be later before we can secure anything.

In asnwer to GrahamH,  we did have alternatives last summer, albeit very limited. We could have passed on Rolando Aarons and Louis Moult to sign, on loan, one more reliable incomer. But, we're all wise in hindsight.

Regarding our recruitment, the manager will direct the Head of Recruitment and have the final say on signings. However, it looks as though managers may decide to bring in their own men who they know.  For example, Graham Alexander with Josh Morris and Stevie Hammell with Rolando Aarons,  Louis Moult and Stuart McKinstry.  They don't look like Nick Daws signings.

 

I don’t believe we did have alternatives to Aaron’s and particularly moult and the fact we had to rely on managers own contacts at that stage highlights to me that our head of recruitment is under performing

 

our last head of recruitment was well lauded by Robinson/McGhee/baraclough and looking back martin foyle identified a number of players who did well for us

how many have we had under Dawes? In fact how many have we signed since foyle left that are actually worth mentioning?

 

[steelboy]

11 hours ago, sinjy said:

And there is the problem. Who would you sign for, an experienced manager who has been around the block or a novice with a novice assistant who have very few contacts in the game. Hammell's August signings showed he had little or no contacts, brining in two ex players who were crocks and an academy player he had worked with who had no first team experience. It will be interesting to see who he manages to persuade to come to us but I am not expecting much.

Why would Hammell have contacts? He was running our academy, transfers were never a part of his job. You get contacts from doing business. You would be as well asking why Riki Lamie doesn't have contacts 

He got the job because he got off to a good start and the candidates who applied were very poor. We have a head of recruitment and a CEO who has years of experience dealing with agents and signing players. They should have stepped up. 

[Stevie73]

4 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Why would Hammell have contacts? He was running our academy, transfers were never a part of his job. You get contacts from doing business. You would be as well asking why Riki Lamie doesn't have contacts 

He got the job because he got off to a good start and the candidates who applied were very poor. We have a head of recruitment and a CEO who has years of experience dealing with agents and signing players. They should have stepped up. 

Wouldn’t say Valrikari is poor, he would probably have wanted cash, to bring in his own squad, cash we don’t have, let’s all be honest Hammell was the cheap option, don’t know where our transfers are coming from but they need to be excellent and soon.

[smiddy]

7 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Why would Hammell have contacts? He was running our academy, transfers were never a part of his job. You get contacts from doing business. You would be as well asking why Riki Lamie doesn't have contacts 

He got the job because he got off to a good start and the candidates who applied were very poor. We have a head of recruitment and a CEO who has years of experience dealing with agents and signing players. They should have stepped up. 

ricki lamie doesnt have contacts  because              hie eye sight is good     boom just beat grizzly to it 

[smiddy]

2 minutes ago, Stevie73 said:

Wouldn’t say Valrikari is poor, he would probably have wanted cash, to bring in his own squad, cash we don’t have, let’s all be honest Hammell was the cheap option, don’t know where our transfers are coming from but they need to be excellent and soon.

they wont be excellent and they wont be soon,,,            it will be that centre from cumbernauld colts  when we can afford his bus fare 

[grizzlyg]

23 minutes ago, smiddy said:

ricki lamie doesnt have contacts  because              hie eye sight is good     boom just beat grizzly to it 

Lol

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, Dossertillidie2 said:

I don’t believe we did have alternatives to Aaron’s and particularly moult and the fact we had to rely on managers own contacts at that stage highlights to me that our head of recruitment is under performing

 

our last head of recruitment was well lauded by Robinson/McGhee/baraclough and looking back martin foyle identified a number of players who did well for us

how many have we had under Dawes? In fact how many have we signed since foyle left that are actually worth mentioning?

 

I thought Foyle did pretty well in truth given the pot he had to pick from.

[GrahamH]

14 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Its important for us to get some new faces in as quickly as possible but, no doubt our ability to get players to sign on the dotted line is dependent on our postion in the food chain and it might be later before we can secure anything.

In asnwer to GrahamH,  we did have alternatives last summer, albeit very limited. We could have passed on Rolando Aarons and Louis Moult to sign, on loan, one more reliable incomer. But, we're all wise in hindsight.

Regarding our recruitment, the manager will direct the Head of Recruitment and have the final say on signings. However, it looks as though managers may decide to bring in their own men who they know.  For example, Graham Alexander with Josh Morris and Stevie Hammell with Rolando Aarons,  Louis Moult and Stuart McKinstry.  They don't look like Nick Daws signings.

 

Who were the alternatives? As far as I remember Moult was signed on the cusp of the window closing and it was touch and go as to whether or not it was happening.

[fizoxy]

For every player we sign, there's a bunch that knocked us back, or deals that have fallen through for some reason. That won't be exclusive to our club either. We can hardly come out and say "we signed this guy because so and so told us where to go, and the other guy we tried to sign got nabbed by another club"

Some clubs are better at getting deals over the line than others, and it's hard to tell where we are in that hierarchy since we'll rarely ever know the deals that didn't happen. However, the last couple of windows seem to have been harder for us, which suggest we're either struggling for money or have lost the finishing touch. It could also be that we're trying to abandon the throwing shit at the wall approach that Robinson had.

Hopefully we can keep things ticking over and not get left adrift near the bottom while we try to reinforce the squad this month.

 

[Kmcalpin]

8 hours ago, GrahamH said:

Who were the alternatives? As far as I remember Moult was signed on the cusp of the window closing and it was touch and go as to whether or not it was happening.

I have absolutely no idea. None whatsover. I'm not party to the club's transfer negotiations or targets.

[Spiderpig]

59 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I have absolutely no idea. None whatsover. I'm not party to the club's transfer negotiations or targets.

There's a valid case to be made Dave, that the clubs Recruitment team could also use that answer when asked the same question 🙂