2022/23 ins & outs discussion

[David]

14 hours ago, Coatsy said:

We made a fatal mistake when GA arrived by signing players on 3 year contracts supposedly to be building a team sorry those days are long gone we need to be constantly changing the team each year only keeping those players who show potential on longer deals so we can recoup by selling.

Well, in Alexanders time at the club we signed the following players on three year deals.

• Shields
• Woolery
• Kelly
• Slattery
• Sol
• Tierney

How many of them do we regret giving those deals to? Shields? Possibly Sol?

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

It depends on who the player is, and what type of contract they're looking for. Would Shields have accepted a one year deal with us? Probably, and that's what he should have been given. Maybe throw in a further two year option with a pay bump that the club could trigger if he did well in the first year? But again, if he does well in that first year and gets a better offer from a team with more money, we'd all be spitting blood and asking why he wasn't tied down longer.

Woolery was signed on a three year deal and we ended up making some profit from it. 

If we'd not given Kelly a long-term deal he'd likely have left for next to nothing by now. 

 

[Wellfan90]

Does anyone have any suggestion of CB’s that you’d like to see us attempt to sign either permanently or on loan until the end of season ?
 

I don’t think Lamie has ever been the answer for first choice. As players left, I feel like he quickly went from our back up option on the bench, to the best that we had and it worked for a short time. We then subsequently became accepting of a lower standard and that became the benchmark.
 

Jamie McCart is with Rotherham but has only played 6/7 times since signing…… I don’t know if that’d be a good or even realistic option on loan. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Wellfan90
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[gilmour]

1 hour ago, David said:

Well, in Alexanders time at the club we signed the following players on three year deals.

• Shields
• Woolery
• Kelly
• Slattery
• Sol
• Tierney

How many of them do we regret giving those deals to? Shields? Possibly Sol?

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

It depends on who the player is, and what type of contract they're looking for. Would Shields have accepted a one year deal with us? Probably, and that's what he should have been given. Maybe throw in a further two year option with a pay bump that the club could trigger if he did well in the first year? But again, if he does well in that first year and gets a better offer from a team with more money, we'd all be spitting blood and asking why he wasn't tied down longer.

Woolery was signed on a three year deal and we ended up making some profit from it. 

If we'd not given Kelly a long-term deal he'd likely have left for next to nothing by now. 

 

Shields will be away club lined up it’s just  terms and conditions etc. to be sorted. the Japanese boy they are trying to sort a visa that’s what’s holding that one up. All depends if they can get a visa   

[wellsince75]

35 minutes ago, Wellfan90 said:

Does anyone have any suggestion of CB’s that you’d like to see us attempt to sign either permanently or on loan until the end of season ?
 

I don’t think Lamie has ever been the answer for first choice. As players left, I feel like he quickly went from our back up option on the bench, to the best that we had and it worked for a short time. We then subsequently became accepting of a lower standard and that became the benchmark.
 

Jamie McCart is with Rotherham but has only played 6/7 times since signing…… I don’t know if that’d be a good or even realistic option on loan. 

McCart for me would be a very good signing.   He was excellent for StJonhstone , always played well against us. 

There must be lots of affordable options for centre halves.  What I find a little concerning is it's mostly attacking options that we're linked with, when it's the defence thats the key issue. It may be just how things are progressing. 

But to your point, someone like McCart would be a very welcome addition. 

[David]

2 minutes ago, gilmour said:

Shields will be away club lined up it’s just  terms and conditions etc. to be sorted. the Japanese boy they are trying to sort a visa that’s what’s holding that one up. All depends if they can get a visa   

Let's hope so. I'm sure Shields can do some club a turn if he's played as a striker, but it's just not worked out at Motherwell for him.

[wellfan]

7 minutes ago, gilmour said:

Shields will be away club lined up it’s just  terms and conditions etc. to be sorted. the Japanese boy they are trying to sort a visa that’s what’s holding that one up. All depends if they can get a visa   

Let's hope both your assertions come true this week. 

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, David said:

Well, in Alexanders time at the club we signed the following players on three year deals.

• Shields
• Woolery
• Kelly
• Slattery
• Sol
• Tierney

How many of them do we regret giving those deals to? Shields? Possibly Sol?

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

• Shields - a failed project
• Woolery - decent on his day and I think we got a small fee for him
• Kelly - good keeper
• Slattery - lazy diver; a wasted talent
• Sol - crap
• Tierney - a work in progress; promising

[Wellfan90]

3 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

McCart for me would be a very good signing.   He was excellent for StJonhstone , always played well against us. 

There must be lots of affordable options for centre halves.  What I find a little concerning is it's mostly attacking options that we're linked with, when it's the defence thats the key issue. It may be just how things are progressing. 

But to your point, someone like McCart would be a very welcome addition. 

I share the thoughts surrounding being linked with defenders.
 

I had a look a few weeks ago……. And these positions are very rough, as I never took a note at the time. However, based purely on goals scored and conceded, we were roughly 

Goals Scored: 4th

Goals Conceded: We’d be second bottom.

That has since changed, but it enforced the point that our defence is the main issue.

 

[wellup83]

Watching Aberdeen in this semi final and they now have in Shinnie exactly what we're missing. He's been everywhere in front of the back 4. An experienced calm head who can organise the midfield.

Just as I say that Rangers score but the point still stands.

[fizoxy]

Mccart operated almost exclusively in a back 3 with St J, and dropped off a fair bit when Kerr left, but he's a Scottish prem level player and would be worth a look if available. 

Shaughnessy seems to be getting a game with st mirren now, so I think we can eliminate him from contention. 

I'm wondering if a competent defensive mid would make a bigger difference than a new CB. Decent ones are rare though. 

[Stevie73]

Heard Penney is away, hopefully young Max Johnstone gets his run with either SOD or McGinn on the other side. Fingers crossed a decent CB and Midfielder in before end of window.

[Kmcalpin]

12 minutes ago, Stevie73 said:

Heard Penney is away, hopefully young Max Johnstone gets his run with either SOD or McGinn on the other side. Fingers crossed a decent CB and Midfielder in before end of window.

If SOD is out can McGinn play on the left? If not does Lamie move to LB? 

[santheman]

9 minutes ago, Stevie73 said:

Heard Penney is away, hopefully young Max Johnstone gets his run with either SOD or McGinn on the other side. Fingers crossed a decent CB and Midfielder in before end of window.

When you consider his answer to "what's your favourite hobby away from football" in the quickfire questions section in yesterdays programme was "seeing family and friends" then I think we can take it as read that he's away home.

[grizzlyg]

19 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

If SOD is out can McGinn play on the left? If not does Lamie move to LB? 

If Penney away then you play experience guy at left back, SOD or mcginn,. Jeez not Lamie, Robbo hung him out to dry playing there 

[supermarv]

4 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

If Penney away then you play experience guy at left back, SOD or mcginn,. Jeez not Lamie, Robbo hung him out to dry playing there 

SOD or McGinn that have been part of the problem and rotten but yeah let’s play them on their weak side. This isn’t a time to play players in positions that could fit in or do a job get in the correct players.

[smiddy]

1 minute ago, grizzlyg said:

If Penney away then you play experience guy at left back, SOD or mcginn,. Jeez not Lamie, Robbo hung him out to dry playing there 

if lamie has to play somewhere then i suppose LB out the feckin road  is as good as anywhere   but i would prefer SOD just for experience     just my own opinion as i dont suppose many will agree just a bit of experience and calm head at the back, maybe even someone at the back to game manage or if were under pressure someone to boot the baw into the north sea

[Kmcalpin]

5 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

If Penney away then you play experience guy at left back, SOD or mcginn,. Jeez not Lamie, Robbo hung him out to dry playing there 

Agreed Grizzly, but if SOD isn't available for whatever reason, like yesterday, can McGinn play on the left side?

[pretzel]

Regarding Penney, was it not mentioned that his future would be addressed post County game? He's a player I actually really liked but judging on his last two outings if he feels the need to move on I won't shed a tear.

[grizzlyg]

4 minutes ago, supermarv said:

SOD or McGinn that have been part of the problem and rotten but yeah let’s play them on their weak side. This isn’t a time to play players in positions that could fit in or do a job get in the correct players.

So who else would play left back then if Penney is away? I don't think it would be fair playing young Johnston there , let him play on his natural side. I was only looking at our current squad and what options were for left back 

[pretzel]

2 minutes ago, smiddy said:

if lamie has to play somewhere then i suppose LB out the feckin road 

Getting nightmare flash backs of Jordan Jones, Alan Forrest and David Templeton breezing past him on the wing, circa early 2020/21.

[smiddy]

8 minutes ago, pretzel said:

Getting nightmare flash backs of Jordan Jones, Alan Forrest and David Templeton breezing past him on the wing, circa early 2020/21.

yip but if he needs to play then put him there oot the road its ONLY arbroath       but ffs the next league game is away to st midden  maybe big curtis main will rag doll him next if he plays cb

[Inflato]

1 hour ago, Stevie73 said:

Heard Penney is away, hopefully young Max Johnstone gets his run with either SOD or McGinn on the other side. Fingers crossed a decent CB and Midfielder in before end of window.

Penney has been part of a collectively very poor defensive line-up and has been miles off it for the past few weeks. Teams, most recently Hibs, have been successfully targeting our left-hand side.

Overall I felt Penney steadily regressed during his time here, and it'll certainly be interesting to see who Hammell replaces him with.

[supermarv]

18 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

So who else would play left back then if Penney is away? I don't think it would be fair playing young Johnston there , let him play on his natural side. I was only looking at our current squad and what options were for left back 

We lose our first team left back. Okay let’s not go out and replace him with the wages freed up with a competent left back let’s do what we’ve done so far and let back up players take starting spots which have gotten us into this mess. 
 

On Penney he’s been outstanding best left back we’ve had actually since hammell hung up the boots. Maybe with an exception of his last 2 games but playing next to lamie will make anyone look poor.

[Kmcalpin]

8 minutes ago, supermarv said:

On Penney he’s been outstanding best left back we’ve had actually since hammell hung up the boots. Maybe with an exception of his last 2 games but playing next to lamie will make anyone look poor.

A good comparison. Both were excellent on the ball. Hammell was fast and had a great cross in him but he couldn't defend - Penney is exactly the same.  As Inflato says, he's regressed since he joined us. 

[wellfan]

Penney seems to have had his head turned by something since the turn of the year. He was excellent until then.