2022/23 ins & outs discussion

[Yorkyred]

42 minutes ago, wellfan said:

As I've said elsewhere, the club is now financially crippled because they let Alexander live his arrogant fantasy.

Before that the argument was we had no consistency and were having to change the squad every season. Longer contracts are fine if it’s the right players that could command a transfer fee down the line.

[grizzlyg]

2 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

Before that the argument was we had no consistency and were having to change the squad every season. Longer contracts are fine if it’s the right players that could command a transfer fee down the line.

Yep that sums it up, it's a bit like Morecambe and wise,. We are issuing the right long term contracts...but not necessarily to the right players

[Coatsy]

Said it before these 3 year deals are a liability unless its for a sell on player

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, Coatsy said:

Said it before these 3 year deals are a liability unless its for a sell on player

Unless you are spending ridiculous amounts of cash to buy an established player with a proven track record, and even then its no guarantee of success a long contract is a good move business wise, protecting your interests etc.

But at our level every player is a punt so a 3 year deal might be the thing that seals the deal and I assume that the manager fully expects the player to do well, improve the team etc, so a long contract would be justified.

Bringing in players on longer contracts also builds a team, assuming they live up to expectations, which is a better option than constantly having to rebuild a squad every season.

As I said the 3 year deals were gambles that never paid off but if the players need to be moved on mid contract we can at least get a fee for them and recoup some of the investment, all assuming some other team want to buy them.

 

 

 

 

[Mad Dog]

Good luck to the lad wherever he goes. He may even come back to us a better and more confident player to go with his tremendous workrate.

[wellfan]

59 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

Good luck to the lad wherever he goes. He may even come back to us a better and more confident player to go with his tremendous workrate.

I work hard at sex, but it doesn't make me good at it. 

[grizzlyg]

9 minutes ago, wellfan said:

I work hard at sex, but it doesn't make me good at it. 

I work hard at my jokes......but it definitely doesn't make me good at it

[pretzel]

8 minutes ago, wellfan said:

I work hard at sex, but it doesn't make me good at it. 

That's what happens when you have a daft wee piece.

Sadly for Shields he has absolutely no composure in front of goal, you think back to the numerous chances he has had this season, it's either a back pass to the keeper or a wild effort into row Z, that one at Tannadice was shocking. Good luck to the guy, hopefully he kicks on wherever he ends up.

[Kmcalpin]

Matt Connelly joins Stranraer on loan until the end of the season. 

[David]

21 hours ago, wellfan said:

As I've said elsewhere, the club is now financially crippled because they let Alexander live his arrogant fantasy.

That's not true, of course. 

The club as a whole decided to move forward with a long-term strategy when it came to signing certain players. It just hasn't paid off, which means it's very easy for people like you to come along after the fact and point out the errors.

Go and read the transfer thread when we signed Shields. The overwhelming opinion was that signing a 24 year old Scottish striker who had scored 11 goals in the Championship the season before was a decent bit of business.

[fizoxy]

The fact is that football transfers are always going to be a mixed bag. We only notice when other teams get it right, so we get a skewed perception of how successful we are/should be compared to others. 

The contract length is going to depend on the player. Some players will want a short contract because they feel like their current club is a stepping stone, others want long term security. Then you have the opposite from the clubs perspective, as they will want to keep good players tied up for as long as possible, but only offer short term contracts the the riskier players. You then have multiple clubs competing for a player, so they have to make concessions, by either offering more money or a more favourable term. 

That's a heavily simplified version of what goes on, as theres a million other factors such as location, agents, league position, playing style, what the facilities are like, etc. 

Signing shields, woolery, Kelly, Tierney, et all to 3 year deals was looked upon favourably by most at the time. A longer deal gives players time to settle, and  protects the club in that it prevents other clubs from pinching our players immediately after a purple patch.  You never know how it's going to turn out, but hope that more work out than don't.  

 

[wellfan]

13 hours ago, David said:

13 hours ago, David said:

That's not true, of course. 

The club as a whole decided to move forward with a long-term strategy when it came to signing certain players. It just hasn't paid off, which means it's very easy for people like you to come along after the fact and point out the errors.

Go and read the transfer thread when we signed Shields. The overwhelming opinion was that signing a 24 year old Scottish striker who had scored 11 goals in the Championship the season before was a decent bit of business.

I’ve been moaning (elsewhere) about Alexander and his project being a mistake since November 2021. 

[Yorkyred]

15 hours ago, David said:

That's not true, of course. 

The club as a whole decided to move forward with a long-term strategy when it came to signing certain players. It just hasn't paid off, which means it's very easy for people like you to come along after the fact and point out the errors.

Go and read the transfer thread when we signed Shields. The overwhelming opinion was that signing a 24 year old Scottish striker who had scored 11 goals in the Championship the season before was a decent bit of business.

It was exactly the type of signing many were asking for, a young, pretty highly rated player from the championship. Sadly it’s just not quite worked out, not that he’s a hopeless player, he’s not, it’s just you need something else apart from just workrate.

[David]

2 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

It was exactly the type of signing many were asking for, a young, pretty highly rated player from the championship. Sadly it’s just not quite worked out, not that he’s a hopeless player, he’s not, it’s just you need something else apart from just workrate.

Exactly.

What I was commenting on was the notion that signing those players on those contracts was "Alexander's arrogant fantasy." It wasn't.

Alexander certainly was at fault for many things, but he most likely was working within a transfer policy and strategy determined by the higher ups at the club. And it was a policy the vast majority of us saw as sensible. 

[Yorkyred]

Just now, David said:

Exactly.

What I was commenting on was the notion that signing those players on those contracts was "Alexander's arrogant fantasy." It wasn't.

Alexander certainly was at fault for many things, but he most likely was working within a transfer policy and strategy determined by the higher ups at the club. And it was a policy the vast majority of us saw as sensible. 

It was

[David]

And still is, I'd say. All we need to do is sign one player on a three year deal who fulfils the potential we see in him and when we sell him on it completely negates the wages paid out to the likes of Shields during his contract.

And on Shields, as you say, he hasn't been a total bust. It's not like he was signed and quickly disappeared from the starting eleven and squad, he's been active and doing his bit.

It's just that "his bit" hasn't been what we'd hoped. 

[steelboy]

On 8/23/2022 at 9:32 PM, steelboy said:

I see Stephen Kelly is playing for Rangers B tonight in the Challenge Cup. Given he has played 50 matches between Ross County and Salford he must be looking to get out of Ibrox before the window shuts, he might be a decent addition for us in midfield.

He's scoring a few goals for Livi now. 

He should have been on our radar.

[Kat]

Matt Penney signs for Charlton Athletic. 

[thewelllfan]

Well theres that rumour put to bed we still need a lb,cb,cm and Danzaki to stay up imo and then a huge clearout in the summer

[Coatsy]

1 hour ago, Kat said:

Matt Penney signs for Charlton Athletic. 

Think he checked out a couple of weeks ago anyway

 

[Kmcalpin]

I think some folk are now being a bit harsh on Penney. Don't think he was any worse latterly than he was months ago. He was always good on the attack but a poor defender.  That never really changed. Despite the hype I never really bought into him. He's moved on and from what I hear it should be a toss up between SOD and Max Johnston for the LB berth as things stand.

[weeyin]

If any gaffer is going to bring in another left back it's this gaffer. 

From his interviews it sounds like we are actively working on more deals, including a replacement for Penney.

[Yodo]

Let’s hope the cup result doesn’t hide the fact we need at least another two players in a defender and a midfielder to play the holding role . If we can get sign at least two then I’m quietly confident we won’t be in the bottom two 

[Kmcalpin]

2 minutes ago, Yodo said:

Let’s hope the cup result doesn’t hide the fact we need at least another two players in a defender and a midfielder to play the holding role . If we can get sign at least two then I’m quietly confident we won’t be in the bottom two 

I'd say we need 3, although thats unlikely in the extreme. A defensive midfielder, a left back and a central defender to replace Lamie.  To make that happen we'de need to ship out some players like Morris and O'Donnell. Even at that it would be difficult to do in this window. Can't quite fathom out what happening with SOD. As far as left back is concerned we've surely known for some time that Penney wasn't going to hang around and should be well down the road of sourcing a replacement.  

[wellsince75]

24 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I'd say we need 3, although thats unlikely in the extreme. A defensive midfielder, a left back and a central defender to replace Lamie.  To make that happen we'de need to ship out some players like Morris and O'Donnell. Even at that it would be difficult to do in this window. Can't quite fathom out what happening with SOD. As far as left back is concerned we've surely known for some time that Penney wasn't going to hang around and should be well down the road of sourcing a replacement.  

agree about the 3 positions you mention. 

Re Penney, he may end up being a 'Well player longer term. Although back at his parent club it's clear we're keen on him, they will want some form of fee.  Suspect on the last day on the window he'll come back.

Re SOD. A player of his capability should be an easy pick each week - particularly given how poor our defence & midfield have been BUT it's not worked for him over the last 2 years.  Should be an easy player to offload to many clubs in the SPL.