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Motherwell v Ross County 14/01/23


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37 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Next weeks cup game doesn't really matter other than perhaps for confidence or financial reasons.  This season is all about staying up and everything else is a distraction.

Spot on. Our top priority must be the league and staying up and those harping on about Arbroath being a must win need to remember that.

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Our main priority will be staying in the league but to suggest that “next weeks cup game doesn’t really matter” is absolute nonsense.
 

If we were to exit the Cup at the first hurdle to a lower league side at a time when the mood around the club is already at or very near rock bottom then that could well be the tipping point for our already fragile confidence. It would also be the end for Steven Hammell as well I reckon.

Apart from that we have seen in the past how a good cup run can provide a welcome break from the turgid monotony of the league and, unlikely as it is, with a few kind draws we might be able to go deeper into the tournament. 
 

So next Saturdays cup game at Arbroath absolutely DOES matter.

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53 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

How about we beat Arbroath, he drags us over the line in the league, he learns from his mistakes and gets a proper summer window to get his type of player in and makes a better fist of it next season with a team that allows him to throw in and develop the odd youngster?

In a perfect world scenario, yes, I would hope so. However, I'm not sure it will work out like that, and the changing of CEO at a crucial stage for the Club may have a part to play in that belief. 

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1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

We need wins soon but I think at least on the ball we are playing better than we have for a while. 

For me there is a wee chink of light there and I always feel that the teams that get relegated are the teams that struggle to score.

We've score in 11 of our last 13 matches.  Scored 5 in our last 3 home matches, hit that bar twice, hit the post etc.  

Obviously we are in a tricky position but the doom merchants have us worse than we actual are.

If we'd kept 3 our 4 clean sheets in the last 15 or so games we'd probably be up around St. Mirren/Livingston/St Johnstone area of the league.

Sorting out the defence is the priority right now.  As I said last week I don't even think it's the players, it's a confidence thing.  Lamie/Johansen might not be the best around but they are capable of better and we've all seen it with our own eyes.

There is still a lot of football to be played and you might be surprised to know we haven't lost to a non city club since August.  Certainly on the evidence I've seen recently are better than Kilmarnock and at least as good as Ross County.

I think Dundee Utd might pull away but Hibs might drop down to replace them as their form is stinking.  St. Mirren also, who benefited from a lot of home games at the start of the season, and haven't been great recently.

We are going to be down in the bottom 4 for the rest of the season.  Our aim this season is anything above the automatic relegation spot.

Next weeks cup game doesn't really matter other than perhaps for confidence or financial reasons.  This season is all about staying up and everything else is a distraction.

I agree with this 100%. Confidence in king. Lamie is the perfect example right now. We know how he can play. It is not about ability.

Our record against the teams round about us is fine. I think the nature of the Killie draw has done alot of psychological damage. We are holding our own against the teams that will be fighting it out at the bottom.. It is going to be a nerve shredding end to the season but we have as good a chance as any team in the bottom 5 of staying up. 

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What I enjoy reading is the expert opinions on who the manager should have picked and the formation he should have used after the game is played.

The number of professional football people who are paid well and actually make a living from the game who seemingly "know fuck all" compared to Joe Bloggs who has never played or managed at a similar level is astounding really, isn't it?

Alexander got the old tombola patter for constantly changing the team. Hammell gets pelters for sticking with the same players. The club gets questioned for not signing anyone, then gets grief for signing players who aren't good enough.

And I see we're still proclaiming players who don't get picked as the answer to all our problems. 

We picked up an Irish lad who's 23 years old and has around 50 senior games to his name, most of which have come in the League of Ireland in 2022. Before that he played a handful of games in the sixth & seventh tier of English football.

On top of that, he played the Irish summer league season that ended in October, and hasn't played a competitive game since, so he's basically coming in with zero pre-season at all. Yet because Hammell isn't dropping one of two experienced central defenders and chucking in an inexperienced youngster who most likely isn't match-fit there's either "something not right" or he doesn't know what he's doing.

Here's the truth as I see it - We operate at a level in the game that dictates we buy players who are nowhere near being considered top class.

We offer relatively low wages, and the opportunity to play in a footballing backwater, but can offer a platform for good players to move on to bigger things. We're on a par with many lower league sides down south.

Every signing we make is pretty much a gamble with few notable exceptions.

Some seasons those gambles pay off and we do well. Some seasons they don't. We currently have a team that simply isn't very good. The question is, is there two other sides who are worse over a league season?

It may be that the answer is no, and it's simply our time to face the drop. In all honesty, we've done amazing considering our fanbase and budget over the past couple of decades. When did we last go down? 38 years ago or something?

Look at the teams who've been relegated since. We have no divine right to stay up. Us being where we are isn't a disgrace. Our recent accomplishments has only served to spoil our fans I think, to some degree.

I should add before people jump on this, I'm not saying I'm happy to see us relegated, or saying it's acceptable. I'm not. I'd be gutted, and the players should see it as being unacceptable. All I'm saying is, it isn't insane to think it could happen to us. It wouldn't send shockwaves around world football.

I could understand the furore if we had the squad Dundee United had. Mulgrew, Fletcher, Middleton, Watt etc. But we don't. We don't have that kind of budget.

We have a squad similar to that of Ross County, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, St Mirren etc. Personally, I think it's going to be between ourselves and Killie to see who takes the playoff spot. I think County will finish bottom.

 

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2 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

There is negativity in the stands and yes some right wallopers that shout at anything but I feel the team also have a part to play. Yesterday difficult to judge as conditions horrendous.

I want Hammy to turn this around but he isn't doing himself many favours. Far too loyal to some players who clearly should be dropped, we can all see it but for some reason he can't or is it a case he is too nice a guy to be a manager?

Arbroath game is huge and a defeat could be the end for Hammy but let's not think about that scenario yet, let's see how next week turns out.

Blaney has to start, it can't be any worse than what we currently have. I am not a Sol fan though he did make 2 good late blocks yesterday, Lamie has went downhill but we don't have any other options. 1 of them has to start with Blaney alongside him.

I would also throw Maldron in next week, a big 6'3 striker not a bad option against a physical Arbroath side.  COYW

I thought Maldron looked ok in his small cameo...big and gangly , looks like he will put himself about a bit....more than vv , who I take it must be carrying an injury because he wasn't involved....I know he set up goal but need more 

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12 minutes ago, David said:

What I enjoy reading is the expert opinions on who the manager should have picked and the formation he should have used after the game is played.

The number of professional football people who are paid well and actually make a living from the game who seemingly "know fuck all" compared to Joe Bloggs who has never played or managed at a similar level is astounding really, isn't it?

Alexander got the old tombola patter for constantly changing the team. Hammell gets pelters for sticking with the same players. The club gets questioned for not signing anyone, then gets grief for signing players who aren't good enough.

And I see we're still proclaiming players who don't get picked as the answer to all our problems. 

We picked up an Irish lad who's 23 years old and has around 50 senior games to his name, most of which have come in the League of Ireland in 2022. Before that he played a handful of games in the sixth & seventh tier of English football.

On top of that, he played the Irish summer league season that ended in October, and hasn't played a competitive game since, so he's basically coming in with zero pre-season at all. Yet because Hammell isn't dropping one of two experienced central defenders and chucking in an inexperienced youngster who most likely isn't match-fit there's either "something not right" or he doesn't know what he's doing.

Here's the truth as I see it - We operate at a level in the game that dictates we buy players who are nowhere near being considered top class.

We offer relatively low wages, and the opportunity to play in a footballing backwater, but can offer a platform for good players to move on to bigger things. We're on a par with many lower league sides down south.

Every signing we make is pretty much a gamble with few notable exceptions.

Some seasons those gambles pay off and we do well. Some seasons they don't. We currently have a team that simply isn't very good. The question is, is there two other sides who are worse over a league season?

It may be that the answer is no, and it's simply our time to face the drop. In all honesty, we've done amazing considering our fanbase and budget over the past couple of decades. When did we last go down? 38 years ago or something?

Look at the teams who've been relegated since. We have no divine right to stay up. Us being where we are isn't a disgrace. Our recent accomplishments has only served to spoil our fans I think, to some degree.

I should add before people jump on this, I'm not saying I'm happy to see us relegated, or saying it's acceptable. I'm not. I'd be gutted, and the players should see it as being unacceptable. All I'm saying is, it isn't insane to think it could happen to us. It wouldn't send shockwaves around world football.

I could understand the furore if we had the squad Dundee United had. Mulgrew, Fletcher, Middleton, Watt etc. But we don't. We don't have that kind of budget.

We have a squad similar to that of Ross County, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, St Mirren etc. Personally, I think it's going to be between ourselves and Killie to see who takes the playoff spot. I think County will finish bottom.

 

I honestly agree with that, my opinion is simply if no improvement are being made and we have a win percentage this low, low enough that if it continues it’s highly likely we will be relegated do we stick or twist. On this occasion and from what I’m witnessing I think we need to take a punt on someone else. But nothing is guaranteed regardless of what we do.

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1 hour ago, MJC said:

Our main priority will be staying in the league but to suggest that “next weeks cup game doesn’t really matter” is absolute nonsense.

If we were to exit the Cup at the first hurdle to a lower league side at a time when the mood around the club is already at or very near rock bottom then that could well be the tipping point for our already fragile confidence. It would also be the end for Steven Hammell as well I reckon.

Apart from that we have seen in the past how a good cup run can provide a welcome break from the turgid monotony of the league and, unlikely as it is, with a few kind draws we might be able to go deeper into the tournament. 

So next Saturdays cup game at Arbroath absolutely DOES matter.

Well I mentioned the confidence factor but as usual you have us at 'already or very near rock bottom' when we've lost 2 out of the last 6 matches with 7 goals scored.  I think it can get worse than that.  Say, St. Johnstone who are on the worst run this season with 5 losses on the trot and an away trip to Rangers coming up.

I certainly don't want us to lose to Arbroath but the context of my comment was the condition, mentioned by some, that Hammell gets fired if we don't win.

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15 minutes ago, David said:

What I enjoy reading is the expert opinions on who the manager should have picked and the formation he should have used after the game is played.

The number of professional football people who are paid well and actually make a living from the game who seemingly "know fuck all" compared to Joe Bloggs who has never played or managed at a similar level is astounding really, isn't it?

Alexander got the old tombola patter for constantly changing the team. Hammell gets pelters for sticking with the same players. The club gets questioned for not signing anyone, then gets grief for signing players who aren't good enough.

And I see we're still proclaiming players who don't get picked as the answer to all our problems. 

We picked up an Irish lad who's 23 years old and has around 50 senior games to his name, most of which have come in the League of Ireland in 2022. Before that he played a handful of games in the sixth & seventh tier of English football.

On top of that, he played the Irish summer league season that ended in October, and hasn't played a competitive game since, so he's basically coming in with zero pre-season at all. Yet because Hammell isn't dropping one of two experienced central defenders and chucking in an inexperienced youngster who most likely isn't match-fit there's either "something not right" or he doesn't know what he's doing.

Here's the truth as I see it - We operate at a level in the game that dictates we buy players who are nowhere near being considered top class.

We offer relatively low wages, and the opportunity to play in a footballing backwater, but can offer a platform for good players to move on to bigger things. We're on a par with many lower league sides down south.

Every signing we make is pretty much a gamble with few notable exceptions.

Some seasons those gambles pay off and we do well. Some seasons they don't. We currently have a team that simply isn't very good. The question is, is there two other sides who are worse over a league season?

It may be that the answer is no, and it's simply our time to face the drop. In all honesty, we've done amazing considering our fanbase and budget over the past couple of decades. When did we last go down? 38 years ago or something?

Look at the teams who've been relegated since. We have no divine right to stay up. Us being where we are isn't a disgrace. Our recent accomplishments has only served to spoil our fans I think, to some degree.

I should add before people jump on this, I'm not saying I'm happy to see us relegated, or saying it's acceptable. I'm not. I'd be gutted, and the players should see it as being unacceptable. All I'm saying is, it isn't insane to think it could happen to us. It wouldn't send shockwaves around world football.

I could understand the furore if we had the squad Dundee United had. Mulgrew, Fletcher, Middleton, Watt etc. But we don't. We don't have that kind of budget.

We have a squad similar to that of Ross County, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, St Mirren etc. Personally, I think it's going to be between ourselves and Killie to see who takes the playoff spot. I think County will finish bottom.

 

Great post, it's basically going to come down to who can handle the pressure best...you're right, we've been lucky a few times and it might be our turn ...still knew that strip was a bad omen.

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1 minute ago, Yorkyred said:

I honestly agree with that, my opinion is simply if no improvement are being made and we have a win percentage this low, low enough that if it continues it’s highly likely we will be relegated do we stick or twist. On this occasion and from what I’m witnessing I think we need to take a punt on someone else. But nothing is guaranteed regardless of what we do.

As I said in the Hammell thread, we may want to take a punt on someone else, but can we afford it? All this chopping and changing is costing us money, and I don't know if we have the funds to do it.

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1 minute ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Great post, it's basically going to come down to who can handle the pressure best...you're right, we've been lucky a few times and it might be our turn ...still knew that strip was a bad omen.

It will still be galling however, because there are a few teams who are as bad...won't miss Ross Co if they go down .. round the ref every foul , managed to break up what was already a poor game

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29 minutes ago, David said:

What I enjoy reading is the expert opinions on who the manager should have picked and the formation he should have used after the game is played.........Alexander got the old tombola patter for constantly changing the team. Hammell gets pelters for sticking with the same players.

It's what football fans do. Quite a few had concerns about the personnel before kick off yesterday although they didn't voice them. There was also some debate about the formation. How we lined up wasn't clear until the game kicked off. 

As regards your second point, there is a middle ground. It doesn't have to be one of the 2 extremes. 

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40 minutes ago, David said:

What I enjoy reading is the expert opinions on who the manager should have picked and the formation he should have used after the game is played.

The number of professional football people who are paid well and actually make a living from the game who seemingly "know fuck all" compared to Joe Bloggs who has never played or managed at a similar level is astounding really, isn't it?

Alexander got the old tombola patter for constantly changing the team. Hammell gets pelters for sticking with the same players. The club gets questioned for not signing anyone, then gets grief for signing players who aren't good enough.

And I see we're still proclaiming players who don't get picked as the answer to all our problems. 

We picked up an Irish lad who's 23 years old and has around 50 senior games to his name, most of which have come in the League of Ireland in 2022. Before that he played a handful of games in the sixth & seventh tier of English football.

On top of that, he played the Irish summer league season that ended in October, and hasn't played a competitive game since, so he's basically coming in with zero pre-season at all. Yet because Hammell isn't dropping one of two experienced central defenders and chucking in an inexperienced youngster who most likely isn't match-fit there's either "something not right" or he doesn't know what he's doing.

Here's the truth as I see it - We operate at a level in the game that dictates we buy players who are nowhere near being considered top class.

We offer relatively low wages, and the opportunity to play in a footballing backwater, but can offer a platform for good players to move on to bigger things. We're on a par with many lower league sides down south.

Every signing we make is pretty much a gamble with few notable exceptions.

Some seasons those gambles pay off and we do well. Some seasons they don't. We currently have a team that simply isn't very good. The question is, is there two other sides who are worse over a league season?

It may be that the answer is no, and it's simply our time to face the drop. In all honesty, we've done amazing considering our fanbase and budget over the past couple of decades. When did we last go down? 38 years ago or something?

Look at the teams who've been relegated since. We have no divine right to stay up. Us being where we are isn't a disgrace. Our recent accomplishments has only served to spoil our fans I think, to some degree.

I should add before people jump on this, I'm not saying I'm happy to see us relegated, or saying it's acceptable. I'm not. I'd be gutted, and the players should see it as being unacceptable. All I'm saying is, it isn't insane to think it could happen to us. It wouldn't send shockwaves around world football.

I could understand the furore if we had the squad Dundee United had. Mulgrew, Fletcher, Middleton, Watt etc. But we don't. We don't have that kind of budget.

We have a squad similar to that of Ross County, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, St Mirren etc. Personally, I think it's going to be between ourselves and Killie to see who takes the playoff spot. I think County will finish bottom.

 

Just remember 2 league reconstructions saved us from being relegated. 

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40 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Well I mentioned the confidence factor but as usual you have us at 'already or very near rock bottom' when we've lost 2 out of the last 6 matches with 7 goals scored.  I think it can get worse than that.  Say, St. Johnstone who are on the worst run this season with 5 losses on the trot and an away trip to Rangers coming up.

I certainly don't want us to lose to Arbroath but the context of my comment was the condition, mentioned by some, that Hammell gets fired if we don't win.

Well it’s all well and good saying we’ve only lost 2 from the last 6 but at the same time we have won 0 from the last 8. The football on display is poor and the signs aren’t encouraging. A loss to Arbroath would only make the mood worse.

I don’t think Hammell will be fired if we lose next week, but I think he might walk.

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53 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Well I mentioned the confidence factor but as usual you have us at 'already or very near rock bottom' when we've lost 2 out of the last 6 matches with 7 goals scored.  I think it can get worse than that.  Say, St. Johnstone who are on the worst run this season with 5 losses on the trot and an away trip to Rangers coming up.

I certainly don't want us to lose to Arbroath but the context of my comment was the condition, mentioned by some, that Hammell gets fired if we don't win.

I think the argument a while ago was yes a poor run but look at the teams we’ve played, let’s judge him when we have a run of games against clubs we are on the same level with, this was a very fair point. We have however now had a run of games against these teams and not won one of them. We’ve had one win since last October.

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1 hour ago, David said:

What I enjoy reading is the expert opinions on who the manager should have picked and the formation he should have used after the game is played.

The number of professional football people who are paid well and actually make a living from the game who seemingly "know fuck all" compared to Joe Bloggs who has never played or managed at a similar level is astounding really, isn't it?

Alexander got the old tombola patter for constantly changing the team. Hammell gets pelters for sticking with the same players. The club gets questioned for not signing anyone, then gets grief for signing players who aren't good enough.

And I see we're still proclaiming players who don't get picked as the answer to all our problems. 

We picked up an Irish lad who's 23 years old and has around 50 senior games to his name, most of which have come in the League of Ireland in 2022. Before that he played a handful of games in the sixth & seventh tier of English football.

On top of that, he played the Irish summer league season that ended in October, and hasn't played a competitive game since, so he's basically coming in with zero pre-season at all. Yet because Hammell isn't dropping one of two experienced central defenders and chucking in an inexperienced youngster who most likely isn't match-fit there's either "something not right" or he doesn't know what he's doing.

Here's the truth as I see it - We operate at a level in the game that dictates we buy players who are nowhere near being considered top class.

We offer relatively low wages, and the opportunity to play in a footballing backwater, but can offer a platform for good players to move on to bigger things. We're on a par with many lower league sides down south.

Every signing we make is pretty much a gamble with few notable exceptions.

Some seasons those gambles pay off and we do well. Some seasons they don't. We currently have a team that simply isn't very good. The question is, is there two other sides who are worse over a league season?

It may be that the answer is no, and it's simply our time to face the drop. In all honesty, we've done amazing considering our fanbase and budget over the past couple of decades. When did we last go down? 38 years ago or something?

Look at the teams who've been relegated since. We have no divine right to stay up. Us being where we are isn't a disgrace. Our recent accomplishments has only served to spoil our fans I think, to some degree.

I should add before people jump on this, I'm not saying I'm happy to see us relegated, or saying it's acceptable. I'm not. I'd be gutted, and the players should see it as being unacceptable. All I'm saying is, it isn't insane to think it could happen to us. It wouldn't send shockwaves around world football.

I could understand the furore if we had the squad Dundee United had. Mulgrew, Fletcher, Middleton, Watt etc. But we don't. We don't have that kind of budget.

We have a squad similar to that of Ross County, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, St Mirren etc. Personally, I think it's going to be between ourselves and Killie to see who takes the playoff spot. I think County will finish bottom.

 

If it weren't for the Joe Bloggs' of the world, we wouldn't all be here on this football fan forum talking shite and trying to out-shite one another. 

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5 minutes ago, wellfan said:

If it weren't for the Joe Bloggs' of the world, we wouldn't all be here on this football fan forum talking shite and trying to out-shite one another. 

That's why I said I enjoy reading it. I'm also one of those Joe Bloggs!

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On 1/14/2023 at 5:27 PM, smiddy said:

ok stevie   nae fucking about 

see this saying "individual errors" shite       fuck it   nail them say it how it is   if sol and lamie didnt make the mistake we win the game, i know its not pc correctt and they might spit the dummy out but ffs how many more times can they let you down ????????????      by the way i know it wont happen but we shall see what shite he spouts shortly, and he is now starting to sound fucked 

He's no going to criticize publicly and he doesn't need to I'm sure sol and lamie both know the mistake they made leading to the goal

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While we are moaning about yesterday

 

anyone any ideas what’s going on with the catering in the pod stand

 

went down and qued on 40 mins. Took 20 mins to get served to find all I could get was a bar of chocolate or a coke. Not a single pie or bovril available

above all else I think that shows our clubs falling apart 👀

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On 1/14/2023 at 8:43 PM, pingu said:

I've been a dad twice over  in the last 5 years with Covid sandwiched in the middle and life has got in the way of going to Fir Park for a bit. Probably a similar story for some of you. I've therefore not been to Fir Park in about 5 years, with my last post in here in 2017....! Sort of fallen out with football a bit, with mental home life I got a lot more into NFL which is very easy on a Sunday night when the kids are in bed. But, when other plans fell through today I thought fuck it, I'll go back to Fir Park, I know the football won't be great but at least it might be exciting and hopefully I'll catch the bug again just in time for my eldest being old enough to start going maybe next season. 

Well, it was absolutely turgid. The weather didn't do a lot to help and I don't think we should underestimate how hard it is to play in those conditions. But this team is one of the worst I've seen, possibly since the days of Tony Vaughan and David Patridge but I remember those two at least having a bit of bite about them. Having literally not been in 5 years here's my thoughts on each player...maybe indiciative of what a prospective new fan might think... 

Liam Kelly - made a few very good saves l, was impressed

Solheim and Lamie - I know they get a lot of stick but it was one mistake. Generally they looked ok 

Penney - not up to standard 

Johnson - reminded me a lot of Paul Quinn. Not the best player but will have a good career 

Mcginn, Goss and Spittal - all fairly anonymous which is probably a big issue for creativity although it's hard to be creative in that weather. Get the impression given league position this is a big issue though. 

Mckinstry - had high hopes but wasn't impressed...seemed reluctant to take a man on. Keeper should have done better for the goal.

Crankshaw - very fast but didn't seem up to standard 

Van Veen - good work for the goal but generally not impressive

In all honesty I'm not itching to get back, sad as it is to say. It's a miserable, pretty negative atmosphere, with a terrible product on the pitch. I'm not sure where I stand with it really! 

McKinstry was and is most weeks the only player that has time on the ball. it's like a hot potato with every other player. So it's also a shit goal. Wow. You must be a real laugh at party's. 

Lamie kicked the ball into touch twice last week under no pressure. Very low in confidence. it was also more than one mistake against Hibs. Centre back pairing is not working.  

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30 minutes ago, Antrimmfc said:

McKinstry was and is most weeks the only player that has time on the ball. it's like a hot potato with every other player. So it's also a shit goal. Wow. You must be a real laugh at party's. 

Lamie kicked the ball into touch twice last week under no pressure. Very low in confidence. it was also more than one mistake against Hibs. Centre back pairing is not working.  

The bloke was only giving you his opinion, no need to diss him for that 

After watching the highlights, I thought Mkinstry looked promising but during the game,as with other games, I thought he could've done more 

He might come on to be a real good one and was involved in the few good moments we had 

Agree re centre Halves, if hammy doesn't change it, they'll get him sacked.

 

 

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