Spit_It_Out Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: Having slept on yesterdays game (not during it), I'm angrier now than I was at full time. I think he's now lost the support and if the directors don't act soon, attendances will plummet forcing their hand. Tentative signs yesterday that the players had lost faith. I can stomach dull football, but not if results are equally poor, which they are. Kettlewell has suffered horrendous bad luck (?) through injuries and I get that to some extent, but his reaction to that has been less than impressive. His summer signings are now coming under the spotlight for different reasons and many are found to be wanting. His now weekly meltdowns and yellow cards also indicate a manager under great pressure and he's not handling it well. I fully agree with everything you have said we are on the cusp of Alexander Sligo vibes if we are not already there. Like yourself I can handle playing utter mince but getting something out it but we are not we look like we have no idea what we are doing on the pitch due to the terrible style if you can call that. If you have bad injury problems then you address it look at players you have and play to the strengths of the players you have to put on the pitch Kettlewell doesn't do this he still plays the same way as he did last week and the week before with the same results if not worse. It's a broken down record same old and I do think the players are rudderless lost faith in Kettlewells management.I said it before some things just run it's course and I do think that's the case right here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 Having reflected on last night I am still raging but also need to acknowledge we had SIX starters missing, Ox, mcginn, Gordon, seddon, miller and stama. That would impact any team. However the players on the pitch should still have been good enough to get us a win. The problem for me is how we are being set up, any opposition knows exactly the formation we will be playing and that all comes down to Kettlewell. He has no clue how to change things but surely Frail should be advising him also.? Also I think the pressure is now getting to him hence the run of yellow and red cards he gets now. Seems to blame everyone bar himself. I like the guy, and backed him loads but it does seem he has run out of ideas and also a lot of signings really need to be questioned, but has also made good ones, stama and TJ I think have been good but only if played properly. I don't think he is going anywhere soon but he needs to get a tune out of these players, were 1700 there yesterday, be lucky to get 170 this Saturday which says it all. And finally a lot of folk comparing him to Alexander. I disagree, we were brutal last full season and somehow managed top 6. Yet board kept him on but for me Alexander was an unlikeable person, way he treated SOD was terrible. Kettlewell frustrates me but I don't dislike the guy. COYW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 20 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: Having reflected on last night I am still raging but also need to acknowledge we had SIX starters missing, Ox, mcginn, Gordon, seddon, miller and stama. That would impact any team. However the players on the pitch should still have been good enough to get us a win. The problem for me is how we are being set up, any opposition knows exactly the formation we will be playing and that all comes down to Kettlewell. He has no clue how to change things but surely Frail should be advising him also.? Also I think the pressure is now getting to him hence the run of yellow and red cards he gets now. Seems to blame everyone bar himself. I like the guy, and backed him loads but it does seem he has run out of ideas and also a lot of signings really need to be questioned, but has also made good ones, stama and TJ I think have been good but only if played properly. I don't think he is going anywhere soon but he needs to get a tune out of these players, were 1700 there yesterday, be lucky to get 170 this Saturday which says it all. And finally a lot of folk comparing him to Alexander. I disagree, we were brutal last full season and somehow managed top 6. Yet board kept him on but for me Alexander was an unlikeable person, way he treated SOD was terrible. Kettlewell frustrates me but I don't dislike the guy. COYW Good post grizzly,the big issue is definitely how he sets us up,he's persisting with a failing system that's playing more into the oppositions hands by the week.the last few away games have been dreadful and it's like watching a carbon copy from the game before.kettlewell never seems to learn anything about the opposing teams despite playing against them so regularly,it's the same starting formation,in game tactics and negative approach,why don't we ever change things before a ball is kicked and look to exploit weaknesses in other teams.if you were scouting us as the opposition,you could write your report on the back of a stamp.its mind boggling that between kettlewell and the experience of frail that they can't see the issues that are in front of them.playing st johnstone again so soon,i can't wait too see the approach we take to that game,if it's same again then that will tell us everything about the manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: Having slept on yesterdays game (not during it), I'm angrier now than I was at full time. I think he's now lost the support and if the directors don't act soon, attendances will plummet forcing their hand. Tentative signs yesterday that the players had lost faith. I can stomach dull football, but not if results are equally poor, which they are. Kettlewell has suffered horrendous bad luck (?) through injuries and I get that to some extent, but his reaction to that has been less than impressive. His summer signings are now coming under the spotlight for different reasons and many are found to be wanting. His now weekly meltdowns and yellow cards also indicate a manager under great pressure and he's not handling it well. The support certainly made it feelings clear at the end of the game yesterday but I don't think he has lost the support. I know that it is unpopular to focus on it but this team are currently sitting in the top half of the league. Results cannot be that bad if that's where we are. Motherwell were one of only four teams to make it to the semi finals of the league cup , the top 3 teams in the country holding the other 3 places. It would be a very brave board that would sack a Motherwell manager with that track record in any season We were one of ( I think) only two top division teams that drew Premier league opposition away from home in the he Scottish Cup in this round. We are out, Kilmarnock are also out. We have no right as a support to expect that a victory yesterday was a given. Of course Kettlewell is feeling the pressure. He and his team were booed off yesterday in a season where he has lost his best player to injury and but for a few decisions going against him in recent weeks ( Rangers at home for example) could be sitting in an even stronger position in the league . He has a budget that is a fraction of most teams in the league. I think he has a right to feel harshly judged. The fans have a right to withdraw their support if they choose to do so but I hope they do so with an element of perspective and realism being taken into account. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, wellfan said: Surely he knows that his contract won’t be renewed in the summer if he doesn’t turn things around, but he’s never shown any evidence of being able to make the sustained and systematic changes required when things get consistently shit, so his continuing downfall is going to damage us further. He’s basically on a hiding to nothing because of his own inabilities and stubbornness. Ah but from memory was he not handed an UNDERHANDED contract on the quiet that the board FORGOT to tell the fans ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 25 minutes ago, smiddy said: Ah but from memory was he not handed an UNDERHANDED contract on the quiet that the board FORGOT to tell the fans ??? The cynic in me says that the previous Board deliberately failed to communicate that contract extension because they knew it was undeserved following that dreadful 15 game winless run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellon Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 45 minutes ago, star sail said: 45 minutes ago, star sail said: The support certainly made it feelings clear at the end of the game yesterday but I don't think he has lost the support. I know that it is unpopular to focus on it but this team are currently sitting in the top half of the league. Results cannot be that bad if that's where we are. Motherwell were one of only four teams to make it to the semi finals of the league cup , the top 3 teams in the country holding the other 3 places. It would be a very brave board that would sack a Motherwell manager with that track record in any season We were one of ( I think) only two top division teams that drew Premier league opposition away from home in the he Scottish Cup in this round. We are out, Kilmarnock are also out. We have no right as a support to expect that a victory yesterday was a given. Of course Kettlewell is feeling the pressure. He and his team were booed off yesterday in a season where he has lost his best player to injury and but for a few decisions going against him in recent weeks ( Rangers at home for example) could be sitting in an even stronger position in the league . He has a budget that is a fraction of most teams in the league. I think he has a right to feel harshly judged. The fans have a right to withdraw their support if they choose to do so but I hope they do so with an element of perspective and realism being taken into account. Re last paragraph, football fans in general don't think like that...they don't see big picture, injuries budget etc I was gutted yesterday but until we get some players back we can't really judge him We saw how good Nicholson and Slattery could be yesterday but how can we play through the lines when it's boys like Davor in there...even the boy Andrews probably got a shock yesterday at the physicality up here. I agree with a previous poster, he seems a personable guy and cares unlike ga, for example , who struck me as someone who underestimated it up here and had 2 chances to beat a LOI team and couldn't manage it. That's us out to Morton and St j in 2 years tho, so maybe we just ain't that good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Spit_It_Out said: we look like we have no idea what we are doing on the pitch due to the terrible style if you can call that. That's it for me. As mentioned elsewhere I.e.P &B its hard to detect any kind of system, structure or shape. You can't put a label on the team (no snide answers please!). We look shambolic and disorganised. The defending when we conceded the corner which held to the goal yesterday was downright shocking. Schoolboy stuff. Wilson's positioning was poor but he received no support from anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spit_It_Out Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Kmcalpin said: That's it for me. As mentioned elsewhere I.e.P &B its hard to detect any kind of system or structure. You can't put a label on the team (no snide answers please!). We look shambolic and disorganised. The defending when we conceded the corner which held to the goal yesterday was downright shocking. Schoolboy stuff. Wilson's positioning was poor but he received no support from anyone. I genuinely feel so sorry for Wilson he looks absolutely like a burst ball wouldn't be shocked did he is next on the treatment table starting to look like a fish out of water on the pitch. It could all be better with a formation change rest some players sure we might need to play some of the bench players but Christ at this stage might aswell give them a go. This Koutroumbis if he doesn't leave during the transfer window then an utter waste of a wage he isn't even a squad player at this stage lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 18 hours ago, smiddy said: 🤣🤣🤣who wouldv thought YODO & STEELBOY both right about SK and still in the naughy corner A broken clock is right twice a day..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 20 hours ago, wellfan said: Where’s his supporters tonight?! At the Trail West gig trying to forgive myself for deciding to go to Perth and witness that horror show in person! There's no arguing from me that it hasnt been a shitshow all season. The only debate is whether SK can turn it around, or whether we think anyone else would do better. The latter shouldnt even be a consideration until the former reaches its natural conclusion. Yesterday was definitely a huge tick in the against column for me. Im broadly sympathetic re the injury situation and the limitations that puts on the side, but you cant go into a cup game against the bottom team in the league with such a big away support and not want it more than the other team. Yesterday was the first signs Ive seen that the manager might be losing the dressing room. The body language was poor all over the park. If that happens he is done for. Thats why next Saturday is huge for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 8 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: At the Trail West gig trying to forgive myself for deciding to go to Perth and witness that horror show in person! There's no arguing from me that it hasnt been a shitshow all season. The only debate is whether SK can turn it around, or whether we think anyone else would do better. The latter shouldnt even be a consideration until the former reaches its natural conclusion. Yesterday was definitely a huge tick in the against column for me. Im broadly sympathetic re the injury situation and the limitations that puts on the side, but you cant go into a cup game against the bottom team in the league with such a big away support and not want it more than the other team. Yesterday was the first signs Ive seen that the manager might be losing the dressing room. The body language was poor all over the park. If that happens he is done for. Thats why next Saturday is huge for him. Hope you enjoyed the gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 Just now, wellfan said: Hope you enjoyed the gig. It was awesome. Fair took my mind off the fitba! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc88 Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 57 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: The only debate is whether SK can turn it around, or whether we think anyone else would do better. Regarding the first part, surely it's less "whether", more "how long does he get to show it"? That's 2 years at the helm now and he turned around our fortunes when he came in. Kudos for that - absolutely. When SK came in, he made a big thing about going back to basics, doing the basics right, then adding in layers after. What were the layers and when were they supposedly introduced? For me, we have gone backwards in the last 18 months. I don't buy the "but we're sitting 5th" argument. We will be where we will be at the end of the season, and on recent showing it won't be 5th. It worries me if we are accepting of a good start, then failing to build on it but "its okay because we have enough in the bank". That's not the attitude I want from those running my club. I am completely accepting that we will lose games and go on bad runs, but how we rectify that and improve is what will define us season on season. I'm not seeing anything that suggests a collective or sustainable improvement, or even an attempt at that, over the last 18 months - its been treading water in the league while the product on the park goes to sh1t. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc88 Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said: It was awesome. Fair took my mind off the fitba! Just as well!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, wellfan said: The cynic in me says that the previous Board deliberately failed to communicate that contract extension because they knew it was undeserved following that dreadful 15 game winless run. Correct eho fails to communicate news like that ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spit_It_Out Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, mfc88 said: Regarding the first part, surely it's less "whether", more "how long does he get to show it"? That's 2 years at the helm now and he turned around our fortunes when he came in. Kudos for that - absolutely. When SK came in, he made a big thing about going back to basics, doing the basics right, then adding in layers after. What were the layers and when were they supposedly introduced? For me, we have gone backwards in the last 18 months. I don't buy the "but we're sitting 5th" argument. We will be where we will be at the end of the season, and on recent showing it won't be 5th. It worries me if we are accepting of a good start, then failing to build on it but "its okay because we have enough in the bank". That's not the attitude I want from those running my club. I am completely accepting that we will lose games and go on bad runs, but how we rectify that and improve is what will define us season on season. I'm not seeing anything that suggests a collective or sustainable improvement, or even an attempt at that, over the last 18 months - its been treading water in the league while the product on the park goes to sh1t. It's not even the loosing of the games it's how we are loosing them from the off I have no idea what point Kettlewell is trying to do when it's repeat after repeat after repeat. I for one will accept playing utterly bad however putting in a shift actually looking like we have done something but now after the games you coming away thinking Christ we never had a shot until 60mins and really never started trying til the 80th when the game is more or less lost. If it was just once then fine but it's happening again and again so no matter how anyone looks at it something has to change but I know he isn't getting the sacked and he isn't going to change what he is doing on the park. I genuinely don't even know what we are trying to do on the park anymore I don't know what to call It other than a plethora of swear words lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 23 minutes ago, smiddy said: Correct eho fails to communicate news like that ?? The same people who tried to flog the club to a snake oil salesman. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, mfc88 said: I don't buy the "but we're sitting 5th" argument. I'm not sure there's anything to buy in that regard. Or even an argument. We are sitting 5th. That's just a fact. Only the teams above us have won more games this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 14 minutes ago, David said: I'm not sure there's anything to buy in that regard. Or even an argument. We are sitting 5th. That's just a fact. Only the teams above us have won more games this season. We're sitting just 7 points off 11th place and Hearts are improving. Can't see us taking much off St Johnstone and Celtic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, mfc88 said: Regarding the first part, surely it's less "whether", more "how long does he get to show it"? That's 2 years at the helm now and he turned around our fortunes when he came in. Kudos for that - absolutely. When SK came in, he made a big thing about going back to basics, doing the basics right, then adding in layers after. What were the layers and when were they supposedly introduced? For me, we have gone backwards in the last 18 months. I don't buy the "but we're sitting 5th" argument. We will be where we will be at the end of the season, and on recent showing it won't be 5th. It worries me if we are accepting of a good start, then failing to build on it but "its okay because we have enough in the bank". That's not the attitude I want from those running my club. I am completely accepting that we will lose games and go on bad runs, but how we rectify that and improve is what will define us season on season. I'm not seeing anything that suggests a collective or sustainable improvement, or even an attempt at that, over the last 18 months - its been treading water in the league while the product on the park goes to sh1t. Its the risk vs reward thing. Its a much bigger risk sacking a manager sitting 5th, even if the form is patchy and football honking. If we were producing the same and we were sitting where St Johnstone are you really have nothing to lose as you are going down anyway. That and the injury situation are the main reasons Im sticking with him for now, but if nothing changes in the next few weeks and we get dragged back down into the pack, I maybe forced to re-evaluate. Saturday is huge for the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 10 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: We're sitting just 7 points off 11th place and Hearts are improving. Can't see us taking much off St Johnstone and Celtic. Would it really be all that shocking if we managed to beat St Johnstone this weekend? How many times have we been written off, told we’re on the decline, and destined to come away with nothing, only to turn it around and notch up a few wins? The reality is, if you take Celtic, Rangers, and perhaps Aberdeen out of the equation, the rest of the teams could face each other ten times and likely split the wins evenly, five apiece. As things stand, we’re sitting in the top six. That’s not speculation or me trying to predict what might happen—it’s simply the truth. We’ve won more matches than every team below us. Again, that’s a fact. This is where we find ourselves at the moment. Could we slip down the table and end up 11th? It’s possible, but the same could be said for most of the sides around us and below. If it comes to that, then it’s a conversation we’ll need to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsince75 Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 33 minutes ago, David said: I'm not sure there's anything to buy in that regard. Or even an argument. We are sitting 5th. That's just a fact. Only the teams above us have won more games this season. David - suspect it’s more about where we’ll finish no debate we are 5th . 6 wins in early part of the season are key . 3 wins in last 14ish games don’t give confidence we’ll remain in this position. unless of course we get back to basics with good energy , work rate , get in the faces if the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, wellsince75 said: David - suspect it’s more about where we’ll finish Nobody knows where we’ll end up, though. Let’s say we lose this weekend, and Hibs manage a win away at County. Suddenly, we’d drop from 5th to 6th. Would the manager be sacked for that? If so, I’d have some serious questions for the club. Chief among them would be: who’s taking over? I’d assume there’s someone better lined up, ready to step in and make an immediate difference? Because for a club like ours to sack the manager while sitting in the top six would be absolutely baffling. Given all the hand-wringing over a supposed “financial gap” during the summer, I’d also want to know the cost of letting the manager—and presumably his coaching staff—go mid-season. Now, if we were down in 11th, fair enough, that’s a different conversation. But in the top six? Is that really where we’ve set the bar for managers at Motherwell? Have we reached the point where making it to a cup semi-final and being in the top half of the table doesn’t guarantee job security? If so, I’d seriously question the judgement of those making these decisions. For me, it’s about keeping our heads above water, and seeing how things improve once our key injured players are back in the fold. When the season’s over, by all means, let’s reflect on what worked and what didn’t. But making drastic changes mid-season? That should only ever be an absolute last resort. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc88 Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 45 minutes ago, David said: I'm not sure there's anything to buy in that regard. Or even an argument. We are sitting 5th. That's just a fact. Only the teams above us have won more games this season. That's kind of taken out of context - my point is where are we headed? Well we have just played the team rooted to the bottom of the league in front of a massive away support and didn't lay a glove on them. We have no given right to win yesterday, but that was unacceptable and a repeating theme particularly away from home. It doesn't matter where we are now if we're 11th come may. 17 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: Its the risk vs reward thing. Its a much bigger risk sacking a manager sitting 5th, even if the form is patchy and football honking. If we were producing the same and we were sitting where St Johnstone are you really have nothing to lose as you are going down anyway. That and the injury situation are the main reasons Im sticking with him for now, but if nothing changes in the next few weeks and we get dragged back down into the pack, I maybe forced to re-evaluate. Saturday is huge for the manager. Can't disagree for the most part. For the record, I'm not saying knee jerk sack. Relegation is an unlikely scenario just now, so it would be prudent to wait before any change when better/ more candidates are available. But questions are rightly being asked of the team and manager right now because of our repeated and currently failing approach to games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts