Aberdeen v Motherwell 14/02/2024

[SteelmaninOZ]

12 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

My team would be this but no way will it happen as SK not brave enough to drop certain players he has been too loyal to.   I would start Vale but he will go 1 up top.

               Oxborough

        McGinn.    Casey.      Blaney

Devine.                                          Gent

            Davor.    Halliday.    Miller

                             Spittal

                             Bair

I like that line up COYW

[Kmcalpin]

Like others, I'd like to see Nicholson start, but I just don't think he's fit enough yet. So far, he's been given 10-15 minutes and its a huge step up to 90.  Our priority is to solidify the defence. If we play one up top the chances are that Bair will be isolated. Maybe time to give Vale 45 minutes depending on his fitness levels. In terms of fatigue,  some rotation is required, but we can't afford wholesale turnover.

[SteelmaninOZ]

1 minute ago, Kmcalpin said:

Like others, I'd like to see Nicholson start, but I just don't think he's fit enough yet. So far, he's been given 10-15 minutes and its a huge step up to 90.  Our priority is to solidify the defence. If we play one up top the chances are that Bair will be isolated. Maybe time to give Vale 45 minutes depending on his fitness levels. In terms of fatigue,  some rotation is required, but we can't afford wholesale turnover.

That’s true we should make more of our rotation it should be implemented within reason especially with all these games every couple of days. 

[pretzel]

We're 5 points better off than we were at this point last season. After our 25th league fixture last season, we kicked on after beating St Mirren at Fir Park and went on a great run which would see us only lose 2 of the remaining games for the rest of the campaign, I wonder if we can have another season where the form is greatly improved for one half of it as we have been either sugar or shite going back many seasons now. Friday was a kick in the baw's as it seemed like we were turning a corner. 

We lost some poor goals the last time we played Aberdeen, annoyingly when we had a go when we went 4-0 down their defence provided just as fragile so I hope we have more of a go this time around. Ross County play Rangers at Ibrox so it's a great opportunity to open up some breathing space between them and Aberdeen. Kevin Clancy is the ref for this one.

[MJC]

“And here is the Motherwell line up for this evening’s match at Pittodrie…

Number 1 - the Captain - Liam Kelly

Number 2 - Stephen O’Donnell………”

[joewarkfanclub]

Looks like Kelly starts if todays presser is anything to go by.

Manager doubling down on his support for his Captain.

Loyalty is a great quality to have. But it can be blinding at times. Hopefully not the case here and Kelly repays him with a good performance 

[wellfan]

What's the deal with Callan Elliot? He's not been marked as injured or doubtful for this game or others. Is he so far away from match fitness that there isn't a point in mentioning him? He's clearly behind SOD and Devine in the pecking order anyway, but I bet his contract will have expired before he's fully fit if that's the issue. Kettlewell was clear that he wasn't just signing bodies to make up numbers, but signing an unfit player and mysterious re-signing(?) of Shaw could well point to examples of what he said he wouldn't do. 

[Mad Dog]

9 minutes ago, wellfan said:

What's the deal with Callan Elliot? He's not been marked as injured or doubtful for this game or others. Is he so far away from match fitness that there isn't a point in mentioning him?

I read somewhere that he hadn't play a competitive game since June. If true then it will take some time.

[David]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Looks like Kelly starts if todays presser is anything to go by.

Manager doubling down on his support for his Captain.

Loyalty is a great quality to have. But it can be blinding at times. Hopefully not the case here and Kelly repays him with a good performance 

I think it's more than loyalty at play. 

The one thing Kettlewell has had in our bad run of winless games is the full support of the squad. We've seen what can happen to managers when they piss off the majority of the squad or even just the influential dressing room leaders.

He's had that support because he's played it very smart regarding squad harmony. 

Like him or not, Liam Kelly is a huge presence in that dressing room. He's the captain for a reason. From what I've heard, the players rate him very highly, and to remove him from the team would basically be Kettlewell signing his own P45 at this stage. 

We've seen at Ross County how far some man-management skills can take you. Absolutely nothing Derek Adams said about his squad was incorrect. But because of how he handled it, the players pretty much downed tools from day one. He was never getting that squad back onside.

Kettlewell has retained the squad behind him partly because of how vocal he's been in support of a very influential player who's having a tough time. He's been incredibly smart in that regard, and it's why we're sitting where we are in the league instead of lower down the table.

Look at the managers who work with Kelly regularly. Kettlewell and Clarke. Now, on form alone, Kelly should be nowhere near the Scotland squad. 

But he is. Why? Because Clarke knows that a third-choice keeper is likely never going to get game time, but again, in that dressing room, Kelly is well-liked and respected by the other players in the Scotland squad. He adds a ton in squad harmony, and we've seen how far that has gotten Scotland. 

There's a method to the madness, basically. In my opinion.

[wellfan]

4 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

I read somewhere that he hadn't play a competitive game since June. If true then it will take some time.

That is correct, but he's a professional who was surely keeping himself fit over these past 7+ months. Match fitness, however? He may prove excellent, but it seems a bit daft to have signed someone who wasn't almost immediately ready to jump into the matchday squad to help a struggling team. Is he another project? Or are we his ticket back to Scotland?

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

 He may prove excellent, but it seems a bit daft to have signed someone who wasn't almost immediately ready to jump into the matchday squad to help a struggling team. Is he another project? Or are we his ticket back to Scotland?

I'm a bit baffled myself. He's clearly not fit enough to play anytime soon. If he's a project, and we only have until May to assess him, when does he play?

As far as Kelly is concerned, maybe SK is "managing" him in public. I can only assume that he has seen enough of Oxborough to know he doesn't rate him. 

[grizzlyg]

What annoys me is SK publicly came out and slated Gent after Hibs game. Must be ok to slate Loan players.

I have no doubt Kelly is a great professional and popular with all of the squad but fact remains he has not been good this season compared to previous seasons

[Mad Dog]

13 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

What annoys me is SK publicly came out and slated Gent after Hibs game. Must be ok to slate Loan players.

Everyone reacts differently to criticism - Gent has been superb since that very public kick up the arse.

[grizzlyg]

1 minute ago, Mad Dog said:

Everyone reacts differently to criticism - Gent has been superb since that very public kick up the arse.

He certainly has, can't disagree with that.  I just feel that SK singled him out yet other players can make mistakes but nothing mentioned.

[Mad Dog]

2 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

He certainly has, can't disagree with that.  I just feel that SK singled him out yet other players can make mistakes but nothing mentioned.

Yeah, that's my point, maybe Kelly has been dealt with differently and in private. SK comes across as someone who is a good man-manager and, more often than not, he knows how to get the best out of his players.

[wellfan]

53 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

What annoys me is SK publicly came out and slated Gent after Hibs game. Must be ok to slate Loan players.

I have no doubt Kelly is a great professional and popular with all of the squad but fact remains he has not been good this season compared to previous seasons

Certain players are Teflon, and Kelly is one of them, rightly or wrongly. I think he's a good enough goalkeeper for our level, but not at the reported wage he's on anymore, and I wouldn't be too bothered if we kept him on at reduced terms or he went elsewhere. In truth, I think he may need a fresh start, as it must be hurting him to know how bad his form can and has plummeted this season. 

[grizzlyg]

30 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Certain players are Teflon, and Kelly is one of them, rightly or wrongly. I think he's a good enough goalkeeper for our level, but not at the reported wage he's on anymore, and I wouldn't be too bothered if we kept him on at reduced terms or he went elsewhere. In truth, I think he may need a fresh start, as it must be hurting him to know how bad his form can and has plummeted this season. 

I think Kelly's problem is where would he go? I think he would struggle to be first choice elsewhere in SPL or down south.  On a big wage so if he didn't sign a new deal I wouldn't be too bothered but also if he did re-sign I wouldn't be upset either but I feel would need to be on reduced terms which I would not expect him to sign which I couldn't disagree with 

[Great Balls of Shire]

4 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Looks like Kelly starts if todays presser is anything to go by.

Manager doubling down on his support for his Captain.

Loyalty is a great quality to have. But it can be blinding at times. Hopefully not the case here and Kelly repays him with a good performance 

Heard that, it's great mgr is loyal and Kelly is good in dressing room but he needs to stop the mistakes and pull out some big stops.

[Great Balls of Shire]

1 hour ago, grizzlyg said:

What annoys me is SK publicly came out and slated Gent after Hibs game. Must be ok to slate Loan players.

I have no doubt Kelly is a great professional and popular with all of the squad but fact remains he has not been good this season compared to previous seasons

He didn't slate gent. He said he was at fault for the goal and he would learn, both of which are true...Gent was good before that goal and after it.

I think he's also said re Kelly when he's been at fault that he knows he could've done better ...we don't know what ox is like , I think Kelly should be dropped but SK doesn't so there you go.

He never seems to make a mistake when we are 4 nil up. Not that it happens much 😂

[Mortonhallwell]

13 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I think Kelly's problem is where would he go? I think he would struggle to be first choice elsewhere in SPL or down south.  On a big wage so if he didn't sign a new deal I wouldn't be too bothered but also if he did re-sign I wouldn't be upset either but I feel would need to be on reduced terms which I would not expect him to sign which I couldn't disagree with 

I hope Kelly walks at the end of the season. He is a decent shot stopper, but that's it. He doesn't command his box so any high ball into our box causes problems. Any semi decent keeper is able to use their reach advantage to gather high balls but this is beyond Kelly.

Yes he may be a big presence around the club but if he's not competent at the basics then he shouldn't be playing. However seeing Kettlewells interview it looks like he will play Kelly against Aberdeen so the messages is clear, no matter how bad you play you'll remain in goals for our next game and beyond. I despair. 

[SteelmaninOZ]

The gaffer said 

 

[David]

36 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I think Kelly's problem is where would he go?

St Mirren look as though they'll need a keeper next season. 

[wellsince75]

37 minutes ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

The gaffer said 

 

can't see Liam being dropped after the comments made by SK.

 

[joewarkfanclub]

3 hours ago, David said:

I think it's more than loyalty at play. 

The one thing Kettlewell has had in our bad run of winless games is the full support of the squad. We've seen what can happen to managers when they piss off the majority of the squad or even just the influential dressing room leaders.

He's had that support because he's played it very smart regarding squad harmony. 

Like him or not, Liam Kelly is a huge presence in that dressing room. He's the captain for a reason. From what I've heard, the players rate him very highly, and to remove him from the team would basically be Kettlewell signing his own P45 at this stage. 

We've seen at Ross County how far some man-management skills can take you. Absolutely nothing Derek Adams said about his squad was incorrect. But because of how he handled it, the players pretty much downed tools from day one. He was never getting that squad back onside.

Kettlewell has retained the squad behind him partly because of how vocal he's been in support of a very influential player who's having a tough time. He's been incredibly smart in that regard, and it's why we're sitting where we are in the league instead of lower down the table.

Look at the managers who work with Kelly regularly. Kettlewell and Clarke. Now, on form alone, Kelly should be nowhere near the Scotland squad. 

But he is. Why? Because Clarke knows that a third-choice keeper is likely never going to get game time, but again, in that dressing room, Kelly is well-liked and respected by the other players in the Scotland squad. He adds a ton in squad harmony, and we've seen how far that has gotten Scotland. 

There's a method to the madness, basically. In my opinion.

You've made this argument before.

And I agree with you up to a point.

You just need to look at Derek Adams and Ross County to see what happens when you throw your players under the bus.

But its a fine line to tred if a players mistakes keep costing you points.

You have to carry out a  profit & loss analysis and look at your alternatives.

Personally, if Oxborough was a credible alternative, then I would have reached the point where Id be putting him in.

SK obviously feels that Kelly does more good than bad and that Oxborough isnt good enough for our level, otherwise the scales would have tipped in his favour.

Its a big call, and I hope it pays off for all parties.

 

 

 

[Big Stall]

4 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

can't see Liam being dropped after the comments made by SK.

 

I dont see it either. To be honest he should have been dropped/rested/taken out the spotlight back in November.

Greenock aside, he hasnt been too bad the last set of games. I thought he had turned the corner and was hopefully coming into some form.