New Investment Options

[David]

13 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

There is a huge difference between increasing revenue streams and taking on outside investment.

This is it in a nutshell. There's a huge difference between increasing revenue streams and basically living outwith our means and hoping some wealthy individual will cover the shortfall.

 

[David]

12 hours ago, dennyc said:

So why can't we strive to have a balance that incorporates outside investment on acceptable terms plus income from player sales plus a growing Well Society? Especially if that additional investment is used in part to fund a stronger and more productive youth programme. Then any on field performance above the level budgeted for results in growth and does not mean we just stand still at best.

So, all we're looking for is an investor who gives us money but doesn't want a controlling stake in how and where his money is spent, the ability to sell our young players for a profit that the club keeps, and more people joining the Well Society?

Sounds amazing, but incredibly unrealistic to me. 

Again, we come back to this word "investment" when in reality what we want is someone to give us money to compete with other clubs who are spending outwith their means, and for that individual to find some vague, unknown way that they can see an ROI that doesn't affect the club in any way. 

[weeyin]

I read an article about Rotherham's financial struggles and the manager (I think) saying for anyone to put money in it has to be a "passion project" rather than an investment. 

That's the challenge for most clubs, and you have to be lucky to find someone who would treat it like that - like a fan who wins the lottery. 

So it's unlikely that any 'normal' investor won't want some sort of return and/or control.

 

[joewarkfanclub]

I think the documentary side of things has potential as a revenue stream and possibly the streaming of our games more globally, as thats what Barmack knows. But how that fits with tv deals negotiated by the League, SFA, UEFA etc remains to be seen.

The player trading also has possibilities, but we would need to be a whole lit better at it than we are now for both Barmack AND Motherwell to make more money out of it.

An academy in the States with access to a larger pool of talent with the outlook of moving them onto the Premiership could work, but again Id be concerned about how this would impact local talent getting into the team, as thats pretty much been my favourite thing over the last 10 years.

Watching the likes of Cadden, Campbell, Turnbell, Hastie, Johnstone and Miller all coming through has been a joy.

[Casagolda]

On 4/20/2024 at 4:15 PM, dennyc said:

By the same token we would be in a better position if we had not incurred losses of over £3m in the past two accounting years. Those losses are clearly not of concern to some. How long can we sustain losses of that nature? And, Yes, we would still have had to spend a fortune on the East Stand and Pitch even if that previous income had not been available. Possibly funded by the Well Society leaving us even more exposed. Those upgrades were almost mandatory for Safety Certificate reasons and to avoid further SPFL sanctions because of the pitch. And Fir Park will continue to eat up funds as repairs are ongoing.

And, if investment  had been secured earlier, we could perhaps have also had funds to improve the playing squad rather than bringing in the low cost players you have openly stated are not good enough.

There is scope for outside Investment, the Society and player sales. In fact proper application of any Investment could actually result in more profitable youth development, increased player sales and improved performance on the pitch.

The £3m "loss" is not an ongoing situation.

Money was given during Covid as an interest free loan and the club chose to spend some of that money on changes to the park and hunter stand. That is a one time expense.  That was not related to any safety certificate. The main stand has had some issues in the past that needed addressing but i believe that is now sorted and not a large on going cost.

So your point about sustainability is completely wide of the mark.

[FirParkCornerExile]

22 hours ago, Casagolda said:

The £3m "loss" is not an ongoing situation.

Money was given during Covid as an interest free loan and the club chose to spend some of that money on changes to the park and hunter stand. That is a one time expense.  That was not related to any safety certificate. The main stand has had some issues in the past that needed addressing but i believe that is now sorted and not a large on going cost.

So your point about sustainability is completely wide of the mark.

I dont know what it is many Motherwell fans cant get their head around about the ground improvements. The £3 million we got from Government was a 20 year interest free loan. It could not be spent on players wages . The stipulation was it must be spent on the fabric of the club. The club would have been mad not to take the loan. At worst the expenditure to finance that loan in any year only ever amounts to  £150,000 a year. A very small proportion of any losses we incur in any season. The £3million pound will never ever appear as a loss on the clubs accounts because its not a loss its a loan. There is so much pish written about us wasting money on ground improvements when the reality is we couldn't have got the loan for anything else and it was an absolute bargain on those terms.

[steelboy]

Not directly related to us but the EPL club owners have now announced plans for a salary cap. It's obviously the start of a move to move huge NFL style profits out of the UK and into the owners foreign bank accounts. 

I don't remember any of them saying they were going to do this when they bought the clubs....

[Yabba's Turd]

44 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Not directly related to us but the EPL club owners have now announced plans for a salary cap. It's obviously the start of a move to move huge NFL style profits out of the UK and into the owners foreign bank accounts. 

I don't remember any of them saying they were going to do this when they bought the clubs....

You realise the difference though right? NFL is an entertainment sport, EPL is sports entertainment. Can't see it working unless it's uefa wide

[wellfan]

17 minutes ago, Yabba's Turd said:

You realise the difference though right? NFL is an entertainment sport, EPL is sports entertainment. Can't see it working unless it's uefa wide

And nobody is going to want to pay to watch the SPL with our current standard of officiating. It couldn't be further from sport or entertainment as it stands. 

[steelboy]

On 4/24/2024 at 8:18 PM, FirParkCornerExile said:

It could not be spent on players wages . The stipulation was it must be spent on the fabric of the club.

This is a another Steelmen Online myth. It exists nowhere else than here. 

[steelboy]

26 minutes ago, Yabba's Turd said:

You realise the difference though right? NFL is an entertainment sport, EPL is sports entertainment. Can't see it working unless it's uefa wide

The only reason to have a salary cap is to guarantee profits for the owners. It's why all the foreign money poured in. These owners saw a cash cow just waiting to be milked and the English will never get their game back again.  

They can't get rid of relegation but they are also demanding to be allowed to spend 5 times more than other Championship clubs the season after being relegated.

Hopefully the PFA refuse to have anything to do with it.

[weeyin]

The salary cap idea sounds more like a reaction the new Football Regulator that has been introduced. Most EPL clubs are spewing money and running at a loss thanks to massive wage bills. Not to mention all the issues many are facing with breaches of the Financial Fair Play rules.

I doubt it's workable, but something needs to be done.

Just look at the data posted here. For example, only 3 clubs making a pre-tax profit

 

and the eye watering debt

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

Not directly related to us but the EPL club owners have now announced plans for a salary cap. It's obviously the start of a move to move huge NFL style profits out of the UK and into the owners foreign bank accounts. 

I don't remember any of them saying they were going to do this when they bought the clubs....

Whilst not wishing any club to go under, anything which takes money out of the top tiers of English football can only be a good thing. It might just help to even things up.

[steelboy]

25 minutes ago, weeyin said:

The salary cap idea sounds more like a reaction the new Football Regulator that has been introduced. Most EPL clubs are spewing money and running at a loss thanks to massive wage bills. Not to mention all the issues many are facing with breaches of the Financial Fair Play rules.

I doubt it's workable, but something needs to be done.

Just look at the data posted here. For example, only 3 clubs making a pre-tax profit

 

and the eye watering debt

No one is forcing them to spend so much. It's a choice from those owners. 

[FirParkCornerExile]

38 minutes ago, weeyin said:

The salary cap idea sounds more like a reaction the new Football Regulator that has been introduced. Most EPL clubs are spewing money and running at a loss thanks to massive wage bills. Not to mention all the issues many are facing with breaches of the Financial Fair Play rules.

I doubt it's workable, but something needs to be done.

Just look at the data posted here. For example, only 3 clubs making a pre-tax profit

 

and the eye watering debt

thank fuck I dont pay Sky a penny.

[weeyin]

On a different note, I haven't been convinced about the impact of social media for generating overseas interest in the club (or any other club our size).

This morning, I was talking to someone in Colorado. He's Mexican and big football fan. He told me he follows Dundee because of their 2 Mexican players and watched the highlights of our recent 3 -2 win there.

If you can start finding those kinds of connections then there might be an opportunity to engage fans outside of Scotland.

[Yabba's Turd]

Didn't we try that with the Japanese guy?

 

[weeyin]

44 minutes ago, Yabba's Turd said:

Didn't we try that with the Japanese guy?

 

Not sure we were fully committed to that idea - SK certainly wasn't.

The reason the Wrexham story became so popular over here was of course because of the documentary. It resonated with a lot of Americans because prior to that their exposure to the game was limited to watching EPL matches. The focus on the fans and the town with its working class roots and social struggles over decades was much more relevant to your average blue collar American than David Beckham buying Miami FC and paying Messi a billion dollars (or whatever).

The key is finding that hook. The Mexican players was just a random example because it happened ot me this morning. But there must be plenty of other connections there to be found.

[David]

11 minutes ago, weeyin said:

The reason the Wrexham story became so popular over here was of course because of the documentary. It resonated with a lot of Americans because prior to that their exposure to the game was limited to watching EPL matches. The focus on the fans and the town with its working class roots and social struggles over decades was much more relevant to your average blue collar American than David Beckham buying Miami FC and paying Messi a billion dollars (or whatever).

Wasn't that also down to the guys who actually bought the club though? Sure, people in the US know who Beckham is, but they know Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney more I'd think.

[weeyin]

3 hours ago, David said:

Wasn't that also down to the guys who actually bought the club though? Sure, people in the US know who Beckham is, but they know Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney more I'd think.

I think the Hollywood names caught more attention in the UK. 

In the US the documentary really seemed to strike a chord. Of course the Hollywood connection didn't hurt, but that kind of thing is a little more common with US sports teams. 

[David]

Just now, weeyin said:

I think the Hollywood names caught more attention in the UK. 

In the US the documentary really seemed to strike a chord. Of course the Hollywood connection didn't hurt, but that kind of thing is a little more common with US sports teams. 

I guess it's all about opinions. I don't think the documentary series really made that much of a dent. There's tons of that kind of thing over here already covering NFL especially. And a lot of MLS teams are doing regular episodes of that kind of thing on YouTube. 

I've been in two US states in the past two months, covering four or five different cities and I've yet to see anything more than Messi and Miami shirts in any places that sell "soccer" shirts. Never even seen a Wrexham shirt in the flesh.

[weeyin]

In their case it wasn't about selling shirts. It was about getting eyes on the TV screens. 

The two owners made a tidy sum selling the rights to FX and it brought in good viewing figures. 

It also meant every Wrexham FA Cup tie was broadcast live.

So it made the investors and the club a few extra quid, which was the reason they invested. 

They were never going to compete with Messi, or even try.

(I've seen as many Messi shirts as Wrexham shirts around here right enough - none). 

[steelboy]

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/04/30/david-lindsay-named-finance-director/

Back to the Well Society being a minority on the club executive board.

[Kmcalpin]

2 hours ago, steelboy said:

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/04/30/david-lindsay-named-finance-director/

Back to the Well Society being a minority on the club executive board.

For the past few months, and whilst negotiations with potential investors were taking place, the Society held a 2:1 majority on the Executove Board yet wasn't actively involved in discussions? Presumably then, Jim McMahon was ploughing a lone furrow.

[Onthefringes]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

For the past few months, and whilst negotiations with potential investors were taking place, the Society held a 2:1 majority on the Executove Board yet wasn't actively involved in discussions? Presumably then, Jim McMahon was ploughing a lone furrow.

Think there’s a world of difference in the opinion and reality