Our New Manager Who Do We Want....Again?

[El Grew]

I think we might be having discussions with Scott Brown.

[mfc]

10 minutes ago, El Grew said:

I think we might be having discussions with Scott Brown.

I hope the discussions involve the words fuck and off.

[wellsince75]

Club are dong a great job as always to keep things quiet .

from the available Scottish managers Robbie Nelson feels like the most credible and a decent benchmark .

In reality expect it to be someone unknown /unexpected . Suspect we’ll know by the end of this week .

[Richie]

10 hours ago, El Grew said:

I think we might be having discussions with Scott Brown.

He was interviewed at Killie and apparently (well, not apparently - actually) his presentation was very impressive. 

As was Kettlewell's, for what its worth.

 

[Kmcalpin]

15 hours ago, sinjy said:

It looks like Naismith has had a big GTF as he has ruled himself out. Thank goodness

Was he ever ruled in?

[dennyc]

I’d be quite happy if we were to go for Scott Brown even though I detested him as an opposition player. And can anyone deny he is a winner?

Then again I’m against all this analytics bullshit. It all feels like a bit of a cop out to me. I can hear it now ……’Ah but the data suggested he was the man for the job’. Pretty sure even Kettlewell would have come out well using that system. Did that route not steer Hearts to opt for Cathro, as well as Critchley who outscored McInnes at the time? Crazy and hardly a strong recommendation for its use. 

I’m old school so let’s draw up a list of favourites from home and overseas, invite them in for an interview/presentation and offer the job to the one that comes across best whilst meeting the ethos of the Club…community, youth development, Society interaction etc. 

I wonder how many very successful managers would ever have gotten near their first appointments had analytics been the primary driver? Sometimes gut feeling and what you see with your own eyes might just be the way to go. 

As for Scott Brown, let’s set aside the Celtic connection and the Kipre red card. He had a job to do for his Club and did it very well. Just as he did as a player with Hibs. He is a young, ambitious Manager who is doing well and is highly regarded at Ayr. Did a good job at Fleetwood who were flirting with relegation before his appointment.  He left after a season or so with the Club in turmoil behind the scenes and up for sale. The Ex Chairman was jailed for fraud. We could do a lot worse than Brown.
Whoever we appoint has a huge job on their hands so we need to get things sorted soon. 
 

[SteelmaninOZ]

Who said Ange was on the list? I’d like too see that 

[weeyin]

16 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Then again I’m against all this analytics bullshit. It all feels like a bit of a cop out to me. I can hear it now ……’Ah but the data suggested he was the man for the job’. Pretty sure even Kettlewell would have come out well using that system. Did that route not steer Hearts to opt for Cathro, as well as Critchley who outscored McInnes at the time? Crazy and hardly a strong recommendation for its use.

To be fair, Kyrk Macmillan has said much the same - that the data is only part of it, and all the interpersonal qualities are equally important.

Like in any other field (VAR, for example), it's still down to people interpreting the output and making the right decisions.

 

[wellon]

38 minutes ago, dennyc said:

I’d be quite happy if we were to go for Scott Brown even though I detested him as an opposition player. And can anyone deny he is a winner?

Then again I’m against all this analytics bullshit. It all feels like a bit of a cop out to me. I can hear it now ……’Ah but the data suggested he was the man for the job’. Pretty sure even Kettlewell would have come out well using that system. Did that route not steer Hearts to opt for Cathro, as well as Critchley who outscored McInnes at the time? Crazy and hardly a strong recommendation for its use. 

I’m old school so let’s draw up a list of favourites from home and overseas, invite them in for an interview/presentation and offer the job to the one that comes across best whilst meeting the ethos of the Club…community, youth development, Society interaction etc. 

I wonder how many very successful managers would ever have gotten near their first appointments had analytics been the primary driver? Sometimes gut feeling and what you see with your own eyes might just be the way to go. 

As for Scott Brown, let’s set aside the Celtic connection and the Kipre red card. He had a job to do for his Club and did it very well. Just as he did as a player with Hibs. He is a young, ambitious Manager who is doing well and is highly regarded at Ayr. Did a good job at Fleetwood who were flirting with relegation before his appointment.  He left after a season or so with the Club in turmoil behind the scenes and up for sale. The Ex Chairman was jailed for fraud. We could do a lot worse than Brown.
Whoever we appoint has a huge job on their hands so we need to get things sorted soon. 
 

Why do we forget the " kipre red card" ? That's not doing a job for your club , especially when opposition ( us) are on a vastly inferior budget .If you got to use the dark arts to get an opposition player sent off, it's a no from me.

Just strikes me as a bloke with a chip on his shoulder but if the club think he's the man, we will need to live with it.

He's only ever played in Scotland so what new ideas , methods would he bring apart from winding up the opposition...writing all this and I've no idea if he's being considered so it may be a moot point.

Some folk you can take to, e.g wimmer , seemed measured and appeared to be getting somewhere but then he left , so it's not an easy job getting the " right" man.

[santheman]

Leaving aside Brown's history, IF and I stress if we're looking for a young manager with a half decent record, seems to have done well at Ayr according to their fans and who hasn't yet been indoctrinated into the SPL shit tactics managers club, we could do worse.

[mfc]

Just now, santheman said:

Leaving aside Brown's history, IF and I stress if we're looking for a young manager with a half decent record, seems to have done well at Ayr according to their fans and who hasn't yet been indoctrinated into the SPL shit tactics managers club, we could do worse.

i watched there games in the play offs and they were brutal,if that's how brown wants his teams to play then no thanks.

[santheman]

9 minutes ago, mfc said:

i watched there games in the play offs and they were brutal,if that's how brown wants his teams to play then no thanks.

TBF I've seen them live 3 times in the League and they played some nice stuff.

I suspect he changed his approach specifically for the play off games.

A moot point anyway as I don't think he'll be in the running.

[wellon]

21 minutes ago, santheman said:

Leaving aside Brown's history, IF and I stress if we're looking for a young manager with a half decent record, seems to have done well at Ayr according to their fans and who hasn't yet been indoctrinated into the SPL shit tactics managers club, we could do worse.

Must admit I didn't see much of ayr so not sure if they were any cop...bottom line is they never went up and he chucked players under the bus...I'm not sure  livi and Falkirk had much bigger budgets than ayr...I'd rather have john mcglynn any day

[David]

2 hours ago, dennyc said:

I’d be quite happy if we were to go for Scott Brown even though I detested him as an opposition player. And can anyone deny he is a winner?

Then again I’m against all this analytics bullshit. It all feels like a bit of a cop out to me. I can hear it now ……’Ah but the data suggested he was the man for the job’. Pretty sure even Kettlewell would have come out well using that system. Did that route not steer Hearts to opt for Cathro, as well as Critchley who outscored McInnes at the time? Crazy and hardly a strong recommendation for its use. 

I’m old school so let’s draw up a list of favourites from home and overseas, invite them in for an interview/presentation and offer the job to the one that comes across best whilst meeting the ethos of the Club…community, youth development, Society interaction etc. 

I wonder how many very successful managers would ever have gotten near their first appointments had analytics been the primary driver? Sometimes gut feeling and what you see with your own eyes might just be the way to go. 

As for Scott Brown, let’s set aside the Celtic connection and the Kipre red card. He had a job to do for his Club and did it very well. Just as he did as a player with Hibs. He is a young, ambitious Manager who is doing well and is highly regarded at Ayr. Did a good job at Fleetwood who were flirting with relegation before his appointment.  He left after a season or so with the Club in turmoil behind the scenes and up for sale. The Ex Chairman was jailed for fraud. We could do a lot worse than Brown.
Whoever we appoint has a huge job on their hands so we need to get things sorted soon. 
 

I’m actually with you on a lot of that, especially when it comes to Scott Brown. I didn't really like him as a player, but I’d be kidding myself if I said he wasn’t a real leader. The man was a proper competitor, and he’s clearly serious about making his mark in management. What he managed at Fleetwood under difficult circumstances, and now at Ayr, deserves a bit of credit. If he were willing to buy into what this club stands for — the community, the youth setup, the Society — then I’d absolutely be open to it.

That said, I think the whole analytics thing often gets taken the wrong way. It’s not about choosing a manager because a spreadsheet says so. It’s just another tool to help guide the decision-making, not to replace gut instinct, not to ignore interviews or understanding what the club’s all about, but to add to that picture. Saying the data would have pointed to Kettlewell at the time is probably true, he was doing well by the numbers. The issue came later, when there wasn’t a structure around him to turn short-term results into something sustainable. The data didn’t get it wrong. The problem was, in my opinion, that the club didn’t use everything it had in the right way.

People always bring up Cathro, but that was more about Hearts throwing someone with no real experience into the deep end. Critchley didn’t set the place alight, fair enough, but he wasn’t picked purely on stats. He had a strong background with youth players and links to a top setup at Liverpool. Again, it’s more about whether the club gave them the proper support than about any numbers someone ran on a spreadsheet.

The truth is, some of the most progressive clubs in the game, including Brighton, Brentford, and even Liverpool, all rely on smart data alongside strong football minds. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

So aye, bring the candidates in. See who really understands what Motherwell’s about. But I’d want the Board to have every possible insight in front of them before making a decision, especially in a league where the margins are razor-thin.

As for Brown, he’s more than earned the right to be part of the conversation. Let’s just make sure we’re not going for anyone based purely on name or sentiment. Whether it’s Brown, someone from overseas, or a name that’s not even on the radar yet, it’s got to be the best possible fit for where we are and where we’re trying to go.

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, wellon said:

Why do we forget the " kipre red card" ? That's not doing a job for your club , especially when opposition ( us) are on a vastly inferior budget .If you got to use the dark arts to get an opposition player sent off, it's a no from me.

J

And what about the current Motherwell players that overreact to challenges in an effort to get fouls or opposition players booked/sent off? Not saying it is right, just that it is sadly part of the game nowadays. All Clubs have players that opposition fans hate for that reason. Budget has nothing to do with it. Or do you think it was only Brown that acted that way? He was just especially good at it. Like Armstrong at Killie. If it's your team's player it is ignored, but if it is an opposition player it's disgraceful. 

[wellon]

7 minutes ago, dennyc said:

And what about the current Motherwell players that overreact to challenges in an effort to get fouls or opposition players booked/sent off? Not saying it is right, just that it is sadly part of the game nowadays. All Clubs have players that opposition fans hate for that reason. Budget has nothing to do with it. Or do you think it was only Brown that acted that way? He was just especially good at it. Like Armstrong at Killie. If it's your team's player it is ignored, but if it is an opposition player it's disgraceful. 

Nah, apart from the " cheating " aspect , he was probably on about 20 times kipres wage and he had no qualms about seeing him missing next game etc....shows a lack of something basic ....anyway let's be out of the box again 

All the stuff about him being a winner...it's easy when you're paying the best money to be a winner.

[wellon]

Just now, wellon said:

Nah, apart from the " cheating " aspect , he was probably on about 20 times kipres wage and he had no qualms about seeing him missing next game etc....shows a lack of something basic ....anyway let's be out of the box again 

All the stuff about him being a winner...it's easy when you're paying the best money to be a winner.

Let's get big cedric in as his assistant,  I could live with that

[wellon]

12 minutes ago, dennyc said:

And what about the current Motherwell players that overreact to challenges in an effort to get fouls or opposition players booked/sent off? Not saying it is right, just that it is sadly part of the game nowadays. All Clubs have players that opposition fans hate for that reason. Budget has nothing to do with it. Or do you think it was only Brown that acted that way? He was just especially good at it. Like Armstrong at Killie. If it's your team's player it is ignored, but if it is an opposition player it's disgraceful. 

I remember sod at killie being involved in something with Curtis main where he allegedly went down a bit too easily ...opposition fans don't hate him tho, they bloody love him being in our team 

[Richie]

2 hours ago, mfc said:

i watched there games in the play offs and they were brutal,if that's how brown wants his teams to play then no thanks.

To be fair to Brown, after the play-offs he was explicit in saying that he was frustrated the players didn't follow the blueprint. They were 'too cautious' etc.

Been to a couple of Ayr games last season (as they are local) v Hibs in the cup was one, where they were unfortunate to lose.

...Anyway, I'd prefer a Wimmer type appointment.

 

[weeyin]

We never complain about players who are true masters of the dark arts, because they are the ones who are never seen.

[wellon]

24 minutes ago, weeyin said:

We never complain about players who are true masters of the dark arts, because they are the ones who are never seen.

Broon couldn't live with not being seen, he loves playing up to the crowd.

[weeyin]

20 minutes ago, wellon said:

Broon couldn't live with not being seen, he loves playing up to the crowd.

Professional football is supposed to be entertainment. Would be very boring if we didn't have some heroes and villains.

Davie Cooper, Michael Higdon, Faddy, Skippy - to name a few - all loved playing up to the crowd.

 

[mfc]

Brown never needed any of the dark arts,he just knew he would get away with anything when it came to referees.