The Alfred Johansson Thread

[Spit_It_Out]

But lets be honest the squad on a whole isnt good enough to compete because we should have enough depth to beat Stenhousemuir.What if by some miracle we get to the group stage?How is that going to pan out.

And the way its going unless we get bodies of a standard then its going to be a very very long season I would also add it doesnt help at all when a few first team players are not at the races aswell ie Vogts and Maswanhise.It felt like we started with nine men on Sunday.

My point is do I blame the boss no however I think we need bodies right now that can do the basics to the level required we dont have to be down to the decimal point for every signing.

[Great Balls of Shire]

17 hours ago, dennyc said:

The issue is not with rotation but with the quality of player AJ has in reserve. That's not his fault and he is not going to hide behind that excuse.  It takes a lot longer than a few weeks to build the quality of squad depth we require if we are to continue to mix it with the big boys. A run of injuries is another hurdle to overcome. And less easy to predict.

On Sunday we were dependent upon Wilson and Ross who did not progress when loaned to lower league clubs and struggled to secure a starting position at Raith or Annan respectively. And they have shown next to nothing since returning to Fir Park. Harsh for some, but realistic. For some reason, misguided loyalty or financial reasons perhaps, their contracts were extended. That error came home to roost yesterday. They were out of their depth......against Stenhousemuir. It affected the whole team. Sadly, the whole experience may well have damaged them.

Booth and Mcallister are at a different stage of their careers and may develop given the patience and Loan experience afforded to the two mentioned above. Time enough for them yet. Connolly did just fine and is a decent back up.

Although at an early stage, Whyte has clearly benefited and matured from his time at Stenhousemuir. His appearances this season reflect that progress. Whether he turns out to be the next Turnbull or Miller time will tell but early signs are promising. Contrasting his progress with that of Wilson and Ross is very telling. Same path. Different outcome. Different quality.  

I really don't know what to make of Vogt. Given the other excellent signings our recruitment team have uncovered I cannot believe how little he has contributed so far. Flashes at best. At times he looks lost. At other times terrified. Hopefully we see soon the abilities that encouraged us to sign him.

Gutted at losing to Stenhousemuir but not that surprised. The match played out as I feared believing that considerable rotation would be a huge factor. Not sure what other options AJ had. I really don't think he chose one cup over the other but rather decided to protect as many players as he could. Had he given up on the League Cup as many suggest, why then risk the players he did second half?

When we qualify for Europe next season we will be in a much stronger position to compete on all fronts. With greater depth and hopefully less injuries. It is actually amazing how well we have started this season.

 

As you say He didn't give up one cup for the other, his hand was forced.

Some fans dont want to see the reasons,  just want someone to blame.

Like them we are disappointed too but acknowledge the situation. 

[grizzlyg]

I think other teams fans forum are the same ( apart from some walloper always trying to cracking jokes! 🤪🤪)

Every time we lose a game there is always a post mortem . Despite fact we were unbeaten in 6 games before that with a new team still being formed ( one being approx £500,000).  Plus a horrendous injury list.   Yet.......we are 2 games away from group stage of European football which is incredible. 

Yes a tough ask but with a bouncing fir park on Thursday right behind AJ and lads then hopefully it keeps us in with a chance.

Once we please get a striker in and get injured players back i think we eill just fine.

COYW

[weeyin]

Anyone who thinks the any Motherwell season will be a straightforward progression knows nothing about football or Motherwell!

For me, beating Freiburg over two legs would be a bigger upset than losing to Stenny. But we live in hope, because football can create those upsets.

It's why we love the game.

[stv]

50 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I think other teams fans forum are the same ( apart from some walloper always trying to cracking jokes! 🤪🤪)

Every time we lose a game there is always a post mortem . Despite fact we were unbeaten in 6 games before that with a new team still being formed ( one being approx £500,000).  Plus a horrendous injury list.   Yet.......we are 2 games away from group stage of European football which is incredible. 

Yes a tough ask but with a bouncing fir park on Thursday right behind AJ and lads then hopefully it keeps us in with a chance.

Once we please get a striker in and get injured players back i think we eill just fine.

COYW

Serious question , is there a walloper transfer market within the football forums. Where wallopers can be transferred or even loaned out. We may have a hidden gem in our midst. Some may be bigger wallopers than others.

[grizzlyg]

6 minutes ago, stv said:

Serious question , is there a walloper transfer market within the football forums. Where wallopers can be transferred or even loaned out. We may have a hidden gem in our midst. Some may be bigger wallopers than others.

I am not sure if you are meaning me or Willy Vogt?   I have produced odd glimpse of promise but Willy still to prove himself but needs time. It's a new league and country so we all need to get behind the lad.  If he starts getting abuse from stands that aint going to help him.

[stv]

6 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I am not sure if you are meaning me or Willy Vogt?   I have produced odd glimpse of promise but Willy still to prove himself but needs time. It's a new league and country so we all need to get behind the lad.  If he starts getting abuse from stands that aint going to help him.

Well if the hat fits 🎩

Willy just needs coaching, game time and skill. But you may be beyond redemption. 🤣🤣

[Spiderpig]

2 hours ago, stv said:

 

Stenny team picked to suit injurys and a shitty pitch, hands tied a bit on this one.

There was no reason for Longelo, Fadinger, or Moorman not to start on Sunday, they were all fit and ready, so it was not a forced choice by AJ, it was deliberate for whatever reason he had.

Did he underestimate Stenny maybe a little bit, but he certainly overestimated the ability of Wilson, Booth, Whyte and Ross to cope with what was asked of them, they were like rabbits in the headlights every time they got the ball.

Would we have won if they had not started, possibly but at least we would have tested the stenny defence instead of just passing the ball back to connelly all the time, the stenny defence just sat in knowing there was no threat.

[stv]

Before the game i thought the team selection was more than enough to deal with Stenny. Hopefully  everyone involved has learned some sort of lesson.

[grizzlyg]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

There was no reason for Longelo, Fadinger, or Moorman not to start on Sunday, they were all fit and ready, so it was not a forced choice by AJ, it was deliberate for whatever reason he had.

Did he underestimate Stenny maybe a little bit, but he certainly overestimated the ability of Wilson, Booth, Whyte and Ross to cope with what was asked of them, they were like rabbits in the headlights every time they got the ball.

Would we have won if they had not started, possibly but at least we would have tested the stenny defence instead of just passing the ball back to connelly all the time, the stenny defence just sat in knowing there was no threat.

Just my view pal but I disagree about Longelo.  He missed start of season and with Williams out also I understood reason for not starting him.  Once we get players bsck then JK and SOD can also cover Left back if required.

I think Longelo and Williams could be great combination on left hand side. 

Plus no Stama on Sunday was massive blow....🤣🤣🤣

[joewarkfanclub]

5 hours ago, Spit_It_Out said:

But lets be honest the squad on a whole isnt good enough to compete because we should have enough depth to beat Stenhousemuir.What if by some miracle we get to the group stage?How is that going to pan out.

And the way its going unless we get bodies of a standard then its going to be a very very long season I would also add it doesnt help at all when a few first team players are not at the races aswell ie Vogts and Maswanhise.It felt like we started with nine men on Sunday.

My point is do I blame the boss no however I think we need bodies right now that can do the basics to the level required we dont have to be down to the decimal point for every signing.

We dont have a big enough squad right now. But thats mostly due to injuries. We currently have the following out

SOD, McGinn, Sparrow, McGhee, Williams, Priestman, Stama, Eythor, Hendry

Add those 9 back into the squad and we are nowhere near as threadbare as we have been made to look.

Obviously we can debate whether any of those listed are starters or whether somemof them need moved on. But with a couple more signings up top and the injury list clear, we would be in pretty good shape.

Its part of the frustration with the Stenny game / team selection.

I agree Alfred could have started with Moorman, Fadinger and Longelo but with Sparrow, Williams and Priestman all being out. Moorman is the only one we have cover for if any of them got injured. You could even add Koutroumbis into that scenario.

Clearly, Alfred has chosen to rotate for Stenny hoping to scrape through. I it hasnt worked out, but it was the right decision.

Going into the Freiburg game with a much weakened team doesnt bare thinking about.

[Great Balls of Shire]

2 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

There was no reason for Longelo, Fadinger, or Moorman not to start on Sunday, they were all fit and ready, so it was not a forced choice by AJ, it was deliberate for whatever reason he had.

Did he underestimate Stenny maybe a little bit, but he certainly overestimated the ability of Wilson, Booth, Whyte and Ross to cope with what was asked of them, they were like rabbits in the headlights every time they got the ball.

Would we have won if they had not started, possibly but at least we would have tested the stenny defence instead of just passing the ball back to connelly all the time, the stenny defence just sat in knowing there was no threat.

The reasons it wasn't worth risking these players has been listed numerous times, so wont list them again, you dont need to agree but its well wide of the mark to say there were " no reasons"

[well_said]

2 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

I am not sure if you are meaning me or Willy Vogt?   I have produced odd glimpse of promise but Willy still to prove himself but needs time. It's a new league and country so we all need to get behind the lad.  If he starts getting abuse from stands that aint going to help him.

There is still hope for willy vogt , but there is absolutely no hope for you.

[grizzlyg]

1 hour ago, well_said said:

There is still hope for willy vogt , but there is absolutely no hope for you.

To quote another of my phrases........has mrs grizzly hacked your account? 🤪🤪

[weeyin]

2 hours ago, well_said said:

There is still hope for willy vogt , but there is absolutely no hope for you.

Sounds like the opening line of a bad country & western song.

[grizzlyg]

6 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Sounds like the opening line of a bad country & western song.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

[Yabba's Turd]

9 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Jba team didn't set the Heather on fire initially , we have lost 3 top players from our midfield so does anyone really think we should be as good as the team that finished last year.

I dont think we will lose many goals next year so that may balance the loss of our midfield. 

Some Fitba fans love to catastrophise as well as be unrealistic 

I just said it remains to be seen. No catastrophising just saying we're not as dynamic and thosew thinking we are are maybe jumping the gun a little.

[Kmcalpin]

22 hours ago, dennyc said:

The perspective is that one or two are clearly not good enough for the top division despite having been given the recognised route and support to build their career. Not based solely on Sunday but also based on the past two seasons.  They have not developed as we all had hoped. Sadly that happens all too often within every club. But for a number of reasons they are what we have at the moment and that's not their fault.

More generally, at what age and after how many games does a player stop being regarded as a youngster? When should we reasonably expect to see progress? I think it was you who highlighted that Wilson has played over 100 senior games. Many of those games surrounded by senior players within an established line up. Add some Under 21 International appearances in 2024. Numerous coaches

They are all doing their best and that effort is appreciated. For their own good I believe it would be better if they moved elsewhere.....loan meantime or straight transfer. It was painful seeing how much they struggled on Sunday. 

To be clear, I am not blaming any of those youngsters for the loss on Sunday. I don't think any senior Motherwell player came off that park thinking they had done themselves justice. I am just saying there comes a time to identify when a player is not up to the standard we require. That does not mean a player....youngster or otherwise.... does not have a future elsewhere

100% agree Denny. We do need competition for starting places, but I do understand that can lead to some unhappy players, if they're being left out. Its a fine balancing act. Put simply, many of our fringe players are not good enough. Some are Championship standard, whilst others are League One or two standard. I would put RCC in that category. 

I agree about Ross and Wilson. Ross started out well about 4 years ago but never really progressed and when I've seen him of late looks to be out of his depth.  He's now 20 and although previous managers must have seen something in him he just hasn't cut it. Its sad but a harsh part of footballing life. Ewan Wilson? doesn't seem to fit in with our style of play. Again after an impressive start, he's never kicked on and didn't impress whilst on loan at Starks Park.  Both these lads will probably end up in League one or two. 

Booth and McAllister are different and may well benefit from a spell out on loan. From the little I've seen of McAllister before this season I was impressed but then again he was playing alongside seasoned pros. 

Whyte is a bit different and he looks as though he could slot into the first team this season if he's partnered with seasoned pros.   

[David]

If the argument is that every member of the squad should be capable of genuinely challenging for a starting place, then I'd agree that's the ideal. I'm just not sure it's realistic for Motherwell.

We're not Celtic or Rangers with the budget to have two established Premiership-quality players competing for virtually every position. There will always be levels within our squad.

You'll have established first-team starters, players who are genuinely competing with them, experienced cover, younger/developing players and a few who are essentially there to provide depth when injuries, suspensions and fixture congestion hit.

The question with someone like Wilson or Ross isn't "would I want him starting every week?"

It's "is there value in having him as the 18th, 20th or 22nd member of a Motherwell squad?"

Those are very different questions. But important questions. Because if we send Wilson packing, we'll need to find someone happy to be the 18th, 20th, or 22nd member of a Motherwell squad. And most likely it'll be someone on the same level as Wilson.

[Kmcalpin]

41 minutes ago, David said:

Those are very different questions. But important questions. Because if we send Wilson packing, we'll need to find someone happy to be the 18th, 20th, or 22nd member of a Motherwell squad. And most likely it'll be someone on the same level as Wilson.

Not sure about that. As it stands, and that may change in the next few weeks, we have 2 left backs in Longelo and Williams. Do we need a dedicated 3rd one? If both are injured then SOD and JK can also play there. 

[dennyc]

40 minutes ago, David said:

If the argument is that every member of the squad should be capable of genuinely challenging for a starting place, then I'd agree that's the ideal. I'm just not sure it's realistic for Motherwell.

We're not Celtic or Rangers with the budget to have two established Premiership-quality players competing for virtually every position. There will always be levels within our squad.

You'll have established first-team starters, players who are genuinely competing with them, experienced cover, younger/developing players and a few who are essentially there to provide depth when injuries, suspensions and fixture congestion hit.

The question with someone like Wilson or Ross isn't "would I want him starting every week?"

It's "is there value in having him as the 18th, 20th or 22nd member of a Motherwell squad?"

Those are very different questions. But important questions. Because if we send Wilson packing, we'll need to find someone happy to be the 18th, 20th, or 22nd member of a Motherwell squad. And most likely it'll be someone on the same level as Wilson.

If we can consistently increase the quality on the bench and challenging for the bench that will strengthen our squad depth. So over all we end up with a stronger squad of, say, 25. It will also challenge the players who are first choice. 

Even allowing for injuries, Sunday demonstrated that there is room for improvement. Using your numbers ranking, if a player proves incapable of increasing from 22 then surely we identify a replacement that is capable in time of that rise. And if a player is content to remain at number 22 is that really the mindset we should accept?

I don't expect every one of the 25 to immediately be the same quality of those starting. But that should be their objective. We need to see progress. Those players at the 'lower level' must improve over time to keep their place in the production line. If we can fill that production line from within then all the better. In the same way that turnover is seen in the starting eleven, it should be seen in those who are waiting in the wings.

It is tough on those that fall by the wayside. I get that. But better they play at a level which matches their ability and/or ambition than finding themselves out of their depth and suffering mentally as well as physically.