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I am reading plenty of posts about what the manager got wrong but I have not read any posts saying what he should have done. People have been asking for Maswanhise to be dropped. He was. People were asking for O Donnell to start because we needed leadership on the park. He did. So what is the magic formula that was going to turn that game around today?

Said for me. He didn't change the game when introduced, but he sure gave it a right good go when so many weren't.

I don't see it as 'wanting the manager to fail' but more about how we seem to be going backwards. Our strengths last years stemmed from a back four who could play the ball comfortably with cool heads and a defensive midfield that had the movement and energy to create space for the back four to play out through the press. We should still have the players to do that but we pass sideways, progressing backwards until someone eventually launches it. The more attacking midfielders bunched in with the defensive mids when out of possession to hunt the ball down, often breaking down attacks before they even happened. A lot of what we did last year was pretty simple but just done well. This year, the longer it goes on and the more time we have in training the worse it gets. We were a disorganised mess today, following on from some pretty inept performances against Stenny, Aberdeen and Dundee. I think people are worried (and surprised) about the speed we're going backwards at. If you look like you've got a system and it doesn't work out sometimes, that's one thing, but when you look like no one knows what they're doing, that's a major concern.

Agreed but I don't think that was the point that was being made.

I too was disappointed by the booing at halftime and even more so when Vogt was eventually substituted. As a support we really need to get behind the team and the manager. Vogt isn't going to get any better if the fans apply that kind of pressure, and the manager and other players won't perform to the best of their abilities either if the fans are on their backs. It was another poor performance, with a poor team selection and lack of any of the intensity that AJ frequently mentions, but let's get behind them, and maybe they will turn things around against Killie next week.

Not heard stand up and sing for a while

The club now count season ticket holders whether they attend or not. The stands were emptier today and I don't think there were 10682 actually in the ground. I suspect quite a few season ticket holders gave this home game a miss because a combination of it now being the most toxic game, with the most poisonous atmosphere on our fixture list as well as it being moved to 12pm on a Sunday. So far the home crowds have held up well with an average of 7700 excluding European games, however that will get worse if we don't start getting our act together. My biggest concern this season so far is for the first time in 25 years, ironically, we've actually been able to spend money and so far on whats showing we've got fuck all for nearly £2million spent.

No . Sunday KO 12 noon and playing Celic is what keeps folk away.

So you are saying they have jacked it after 3 poor results, one of which was at Ibrox?

Paulsen looked slow at the first goal even though it should have been defended better, but he kept us in it beyond that and even came close to preventing the second goal. Said introduced a spark, which he doesn’t often when he starts games. None of the midfielders stood out, the defence let us down and the attack offered us nothing. Ewan Wilson was flawless in the warm up before taking his place in the stand.

Quietest I've seen our part of the POD for many a game. Many regulars not there and empty seats.

That is the most inept performance from any Motherwell team. A second rate Celtic team dismantles us. Its not that we lost, normally we do to Celtic, its how clueless we were. The manager had 3 weeks to get his mind sorted and tactics for this game. It was 11 individuals who looked lost about what was expected. His interviews are cringeworthy. How anybody can out a positive spin on that debacle beats me. Players will soon, if they haven't already that this guy is out of his depth. The whole fiasco surrounding Vogts playing should tell you that. It took me two matches to get a handle on Vogts. Yes, two, the first time I couldn't actually believe anyone could be so bad. The second viewing confirmed it. Here is another for you. Kanga is heading in the same direction.

Mine too. Zero leg room. If I can't get seat at end I don't bother as seats so close to each other.

This is a good point. Falkirk are having a very different season to the one they had last year yet the manager is the same. Maybe there are other factors at play? If we were to rely on the knee jerk reactions of football fans the following managers would already have been sacked this season. Derek McIness Stevie Robinson Martin O Neil Jim Goodwin David Gray ( now been sacked) Neil McCann The St Mirren manager is coming under increasing pressure, McGlynn too. AJ also. We could be talking about 3/4 of the league managers being gone already if the fans had their way. It is madness .

3 season tickets remained in the drawer in my house today...noon kick-offs on a Sunday, can get tae fuck

His stats and tactics questionable at last club which had higher budget than ours. Stats informing poor penetration in final 3rd, mostly side passes. Lack of cutting edge. Appears vision and strategy Jens had is blinding management of club to continue season with different players that are not as skilled, trying to adopt that strategy without considering other options. It's not possible to recreate that approach without expertise and quality of coach.

Remember that from the start of last season, we are now counting all season ticket holders. The game in December was far busier. One of the many joys of last season was the stands being busy and the players producing on the park every time Celtic and Rangers came to town. Today was a far cry from that. As wellup83 points out, the rubbish ko time and school holidays will have had an impact but so will the lack of belief in this team.

I know that. I just thought the home stands looked a bit down on numbers to what we've seen recently and a possible explanation why. Nothing to do with fans deserting.

Dundee fans were saying all this same stuff 10 games into Pressleys reign . Its absolutely ludicrous to think of changing manager right now... which will never happen anyway.

The crowd was 10682, same fixture last December was 11435. A drop of 753. Fans are hardly deserting in droves, yet.

All about opinions pal and I do try to be glass half full kinda guy. I defo think a section already decided Alfred must go which I think is crazy. However.....I aint papering over cracks and team selection and formation today definitely was so wrong

Ur making it sound like people have an agenda against him 😂 the reality is people are concerned about what their watching & don’t see any sort of signs that it’ll turn soon if he goes out & puts 5 past Kilmarnock maybe there’s a “sign” there’s a plan…. if we scrape a win, don’t have any real identity, team selections wild or we drop points then the heat will rise nobodies on here hoping a manager gets sacked but it’s a forum where people will say what they think ( people will rightly disagree) am not hearing a lot from people providing evidence of positives….just that people that are concerned are wrong said this earlier but suggest some positives that people can get behind

We could win next 2 games , lose next and folk would want AJ punted. He is hardly going to do interview and say he got line up wrong. Hopefully a wake up call for him and line up next week will be big marker.

Haven’t you heard? Olly isn’t good enough for Motherwell just now, according to Alfred.