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Andy_P

Game 23: Hibernian (H) 25th January 2020

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6 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Even when good, wee teams tend to have a wee team mentality.  At the opposite end of the scale even when bad, bigger teams tend to have a bigger team mentality.

Teams like Hearts and Aberdeen have done well against Rangers because they approach the game with a different mindset.  It goes beyond form, line ups, tactics.  

We've beaten Celtic multiple times during the 20+ year barren run against Rangers, with the same mentality.

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With the hindsight of seeing the Aberdeen result yesterday this wasn't too bad a weekend at all.  Yeah, an opportunity missed perhaps but another game ticked off whilst Aberdeen and Hibs failed to gain any ground on us isn't bad. 

There are also the positives of the game time afforded to the likes of Illic (albeit I still remain to be convinced about what he offers at Premiership level) and the first start for MacIver who didn't look out of place.  The experience will have done both a power of good.  There were also a series of pretty good displays across the team and even Seedorf managed to get beyond his defender for the first time in a wee while.

On the game I thought we were comfortably the better side and unfortunate not to win.  There are days when pretty much everything you hit goes in and then there days like Saturday when every other shot seemed to be blocked when it looked to set to go in. 

The second half was both a worry and relatively pleasing at the same time.  They had the clear cut chance that seemed to hit the post and go along the line before being hacked clear and one or two other moments where you wondered if the momentum might swing to them and they would capitalise on our failure to get in front, but credit to the team on each of those occasions they wrestled back the initiative on each occasion.

I also thought Robinson got it largely right with his substitutions.  You always hope that changes make a positive difference, but as we saw against Hamilton, that doesn't always happen.  I thought Robinson got it right between trying to make a change to give Hibs a different problem but not being so overly bold as to leave us wide open chasing a winner.

I've said it before already this season once or twice that I've seen us fail to win games we've played well in, and won games we've not played especially well in, and this was very much one of those.

 

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I was saying when I saw the lineup on Saturday that my concern was that I didn't know where a goal would come from. When I saw how the game was panning out, I figured we would only score from a worldy or a set piece. There was little evidence of the guile or movement required to create clear cut opportunities. And so it panned out..

I've been going to Fir Park long enough to have seen us lose countless games like Saturday 1-0. The fact we didn't is a sign that we are at least doing something right. That's five clean sheets in the last eight league games. We've only conceded more than two goals in a game on three occasions this season. Pretty good by Motherwell standards. I bring this up because I've read a few comments that Grimshaw had a poor game on Saturday and that a new right back is required. I would admit that he didn't have his best game against Hibs but even saying that, the mistakes that led to Hibs best chances didn't come from him. He's an easy target, perceived as a midfielder converted to full back. Is he Cafu? No, but he's part of a solid defensive unit and does a job. We've had far worse full backs and will have again...

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17 hours ago, weeyin said:

We've beaten Celtic multiple times during the 20+ year barren run against Rangers, with the same mentality.

Here's the old firm league defeats since Rangers got back into the top level in 2016-17.

6 - Kilmarnock
5 - Heart of Midlothian
4 - Aberdeen
3 - Hibernian
2 - Dundee
2 - Livingston
1 - Hamilton
1 - St Johnstone
1 - Inverness
0 - Motherwell
0 - Ross County
0 - St. Mirren
0 - Partick Thistle

With the exception of Kilmarnock, who Steve Clarke did an amazing job with getting rid of the wee club mentality, I think a trend is pretty clear.

 

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14 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Here's the old firm league defeats since Rangers got back into the top level in 2016-17.

6 - Kilmarnock
5 - Heart of Midlothian
4 - Aberdeen
3 - Hibernian
2 - Dundee
2 - Livingston
1 - Hamilton
1 - St Johnstone
1 - Inverness
0 - Motherwell
0 - Ross County
0 - St. Mirren
0 - Partick Thistle

With the exception of Kilmarnock, who Steve Clarke did an amazing job with getting rid of the wee club mentality, I think a trend is pretty clear.

 

Aye, but like I said in my other post - it's 20+ years for us now.  But given we have beaten Celtic multiple times in those 2 decades, there must be more to it.

And I still think a large part of it is because Rangers tend to be much more phyiscal, whereas Celtic tend to play more football - and we always perform better against the latter. (And it's no coincidence we beat Rangers in the cup semi when we had our full contingent of hammer throwers in the team).

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No coincidence that the time we horsed Rangers in the play-offs we were managed by someone who appeared largely 'sheltered' from the deferential  mindset with regards to them.

You could argue they were genuinely inferior, but that was the case in the infamous League Cup defeat under McCall which was 100% down to shitebaggery.

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Also it's not possible to have not beaten a team in 20 years when they have only existed for 8. 

If we refer to them as the same team/entity they were before then they win. 

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1 hour ago, GazzyB said:

Also it's not possible to have not beaten a team in 20 years when they have only existed for 8. 

If we refer to them as the same team/entity they were before then they win. 

Let's just say we haven't won a league game at Ibrox for 20+* years then, which is sufficiently abject.

 

 

* or whatever the exact number is. It's so long I don't remember, and it's depressing to look it up.

 

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Let's just say we haven't won a league game at Ibrox for 20+* years then, which is sufficiently abject.
 
 
* or whatever the exact number is. It's so long I don't remember, and it's depressing to look it up.
 

We won at Ibrox when it mattered most


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Quite happy to wait until after the split and deal them a championship denying blow! Be nice to break our duck when it matters most (to them). Delicious in fact! 

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1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Quite happy to wait until after the split and deal them a championship denying blow! Be nice to break our duck when it matters most (to them). Delicious in fact! 

I hate them both with a passion but I absolutely fucking despise Celtic that little bit more after we had to play them three times in a week in 2018. The absolute pish that Rodgers came out with about Kipré and "there was cotact" when he knew fine well he was lying through his teeth was unbelievable. Factor in they snatched a draw at Fir Park after McGregor dived and that wee rat Sinclair got the equaliser proving there to be no justice in football, I hope they get scudded on the final day to lose the title, I really do.

 

I don't wanna see Rangers win it, but by fuck do I want to see Celtic lose it.

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3 hours ago, Ross said:

We won at Ibrox when it mattered most

We didn't really, as we still had a home game to turn that one around if need be.

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5 hours ago, GazzyB said:

I hate them both with a passion but I absolutely fucking despise Celtic that little bit more after we had to play them three times in a week in 2018. The absolute pish that Rodgers came out with about Kipré and "there was cotact" when he knew fine well he was lying through his teeth was unbelievable. Factor in they snatched a draw at Fir Park after McGregor dived and that wee rat Sinclair got the equaliser proving there to be no justice in football, I hope they get scudded on the final day to lose the title, I really do.

 

I don't wanna see Rangers win it, but by fuck do I want to see Celtic lose it.

Sorry,  I used to despise both with equal measure.

But given their behaviour since they reformed, I sincerely hope to never see SEVCO win a major trophy.....

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6 hours ago, GazzyB said:

I hate them both with a passion but I absolutely fucking despise Celtic that little bit more after we had to play them three times in a week in 2018. The absolute pish that Rodgers came out with about Kipré and "there was cotact" when he knew fine well he was lying through his teeth was unbelievable. Factor in they snatched a draw at Fir Park after McGregor dived and that wee rat Sinclair got the equaliser proving there to be no justice in football, I hope they get scudded on the final day to lose the title, I really do.

 

I don't wanna see Rangers win it, but by fuck do I want to see Celtic lose it.

IMHO the Govan lot are worse for a host of reasons (and I had to go to primary school with them with only one Clyde and one Third Lanark fan for company) but I agree that Rodgers' behaviour that season was  utterly sanctimonious hypocrisy, from cynically vilifying Bowman in a game his team was not involved in, the whole nonsense involving Kipre's "tackle" in the final (and take a bow, Craig Thomson) and his sneering at Alan Burrows "running round the press box with his computer" when McGregor did his U-99 act and they equalised in the last minute in the league game.

The only consolation is that Sellick fans hate him even more for running out on them without his even  saying cheerio to his "fantastic" players (or supporters, for that matter). The pair wee sowills obviously believed his bullshit about "the greatest supporters  in the world".

A plague on both their houses.

Ya bass!

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8 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Quite happy to wait until after the split and deal them a championship denying blow! Be nice to break our duck when it matters most (to them). Delicious in fact! 

Actually Id like to revise my comment.

Id love is to give them hope by beating Celtic next week......

Only to take it right back again in the above scenario!

:D

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2 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Sorry,  I used to despise both with equal measure.

But given their behaviour since they reformed, I sincerely hope to never see SEVCO win a major trophy.....

I thought the same for a wee while, but make no mistake - it's easy to be the better man when you've had a decade of dominance. As soon as Celtic start losing you'll see the same hypocritical, paranoid and bitter shite coming from them too. All took was for our wee club to stand our ground with a transfer fee and they started with the utterly bizarre statements. Just wait till 10 in a row dies...

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14 hours ago, Ross said:


We won at Ibrox when it mattered most


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10 hours ago, numpty said:

 

We didn't really, as we still had a home game to turn that one around if need be.

Since the new club entered the league (:D) we have only played them in three games that actually mattered, the two legs of the play offs and the League cup semi-final, and we have won them all. Irritating as our league record is, and it is, none of the games with "them" has had any real effect on us in terms of Europe, top six / bottom six or relegation / play off position.

Much as I hate the other cheek of the same arse, I hope Rangers never win a trophy.

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27 minutes ago, grumpy said:

 

Since the new club entered the league (:D) we have only played them in three games that actually mattered, the two legs of the play offs and the League cup semi-final, and we have won them all. Irritating as our league record is, and it is, none of the games with "them" has had any real effect on us in terms of Europe, top six / bottom six or relegation / play off position.

Much as I hate the other cheek of the same arse, I hope Rangers never win a trophy.

Glossing over the 2 -1 defeat in the 2016/17 Scottish Cup doesn't mean in never happened.

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15 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Sorry,  I used to despise both with equal measure.

But given their behaviour since they reformed, I sincerely hope to never see SEVCO win a major trophy.....

Absolutely fed up with Sevco,  I quite enjoy the fact they are winning nothing after their attitude towards all the other clubs in the last 8 years.

Don't get me wrong I despise Celtic every bit as much at times and love a victory against them in equal measures,  but I personally have a lot more friends and family who are Rangers fans who take great delight in rubbing it in that their team always has been so glorious.  Every time they win a game all I hear about is that they are going for Number 55.  On social media on Sunday night it was quite quiet which was very enjoyable.  

Ideal scenario from a Motherwell point of view is we beat Celtic on the 5th and then beat Rangers as well to deny both teams the points they are so desperate for.

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Was quite pleased with the performances and game time spread amongst the squad against Hibs

for a 0-0 it was also reasonably entertaining

only a slight frustration , was not taking the opportunity to switch about Scott , MacIver and Ilic .

All 3 delivered to various extents, the two on the wings often beating their man and getting inside but ending up wrong footed,  it just felt like although we tested Hibs, they ultimately had them covered,

I'd have like to see them switched about , Scott & Ilic , MacIver & Scott , type swaps,  even for a couple of short spells to mix/liven it up a little.

 

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On 1/27/2020 at 4:13 PM, Ya Bezzer! said:

Here's the old firm league defeats since Rangers got back into the top level in 2016-17.

6 - Kilmarnock
5 - Heart of Midlothian
4 - Aberdeen
3 - Hibernian
2 - Dundee
2 - Livingston
1 - Hamilton
1 - St Johnstone
1 - Inverness
0 - Motherwell
0 - Ross County
0 - St. Mirren
0 - Partick Thistle

With the exception of Kilmarnock, who Steve Clarke did an amazing job with getting rid of the wee club mentality, I think a trend is pretty clear.

 

No fully representative as some teams (Aberdeen for example) have had 4 bites of the cherry per season over us and Accies, etc.Killie's record is impressive however, only makes you hope Steve Clarke can instil the same mindset when we play teams ranked higher above us (which is most of UEFA)

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