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2020/21 Transfer Discussion Thread

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7 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I think the vast majority of football clubs in Scotland are simply making sure they survive just now, any real ambition will probably be re evaluated when we all get through the pandemic. Even then I can’t see anything other than trying to balance the books while staying in the division. I know Robinson and Foyle took stick for signing players from the lower leagues down south but anyone that thinks that’s going to change under Alexander had better prepare themselves for disappointment. I think there will be quite a gap between what some supporters would like to see and the actual reality.

Exactly Yorky

I think there's an  assumption among some fans that things will be back to normal next season which may not be the case. Its possible this virus could continue right till the end of the year and beyond  putting the existence of some clubs into doubt. Think its a time to batten down the hatches, spend what we can afford to stay in the top division and  regroup at the other end. in a stable financial position and thankfully we look to be in a much better position than most to do that.

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26 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I think the vast majority of football clubs in Scotland are simply making sure they survive just now, any real ambition will probably be re evaluated when we all get through the pandemic. Even then I can’t see anything other than trying to balance the books while staying in the division. I know Robinson and Foyle took stick for signing players from the lower leagues down south but anyone that thinks that’s going to change under Alexander had better prepare themselves for disappointment. I think there will be quite a gap between what some supporters would like to see and the actual reality.

I have absolutely no problem with signing players from lower English leagues. What I do have a problem with is that becoming our default setting with no vision or horizon of a new crop of youth and 5-6 senior pros of quality in the squad to guide youth and emerging talent alike.

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30 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I know Robinson and Foyle took stick for signing players from the lower leagues down south but anyone that thinks that’s going to change under Alexander had better prepare themselves for disappointment. I think there will be quite a gap between what some supporters would like to see and the actual reality.

I don't think the majority will expect there to be a change in the market in which we will be shopping in, or that much in that respect will alter greatly under this regime.

The difference being that, given their management experience has been solely down south, you would like to think that the new team will have a greater understanding of the players available and what they can bring to the team than perhaps SR and company did.

Time will tell.

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I've seen this line about not wanting to sign players from whatever level a few times recently and it's nonsense.

Gallagher and Lamie both came from the same Premiership club but received very different receptions. One was obviously a good signing and the other wasn't. It's the same situation with Polworth and White from ICT in the Championship.  Going back a few years Moult came from a lower level than Wes Fletcher but looked the better signing of the two. 

I haven't seen anyone saying we should ignore any source of players but all signings are going to be judged on their careers so far until we get a good look at them playing for us. If the overall balance is towards poor quality then as we have it have seen this season it can drag us down to level of Accies and below St Mirren which shouldn't be acceptable to anyone involved with the club.

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2 minutes ago, steelboy said:

I've seen this line about not wanting to sign players from whatever level a few times recently and it's nonsense.

Gallagher and Lamie both came from the same Premiership club but received very different receptions. One was obviously a good signing and the other wasn't. It's the same situation with Polworth and White from ICT in the Championship.  Going back a few years Moult came from a lower level than Wes Fletcher but looked the better signing of the two. 

I haven't seen anyone saying we should ignore any source of players but all signings are going to be judged on their careers so far until we get a good look at them playing for us. If the overall balance is towards poor quality then as we have it have seen this season it can drag us down to level of Accies and below St Mirren which shouldn't be acceptable to anyone involved with the club.

The objection to signing players from the English lower leagues has been mentioned on many occasions. Where have you been. ?

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2 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I think the vast majority of football clubs in Scotland are simply making sure they survive just now, any real ambition will probably be re evaluated when we all get through the pandemic. Even then I can’t see anything other than trying to balance the books while staying in the division. I know Robinson and Foyle took stick for signing players from the lower leagues down south but anyone that thinks that’s going to change under Alexander had better prepare themselves for disappointment. I think there will be quite a gap between what some supporters would like to see and the actual reality.

There are a few on here that struggle with the concepts of reality and fantasy, ie expecting to sign quality , high scoring, players in the January window, and on wages we can afford.

GA's only job for now is to avoid relegation, we can do the full rebuild in the summer.

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1 hour ago, supermarv said:

I don’t know maybe they haven’t progressed enough or showed enough in training same as any other player who can’t get minutes? I couldn’t tell you but as said again I feel sorry them as it’s horrid year to be in there position, when they could be out getting minutes. At the moment there jersey fillers and from the start of the season under both management it’s been clear they haven’t made an impact on the first team, and looks likely that won’t change. 

Alexander has been brought in to take us out the relegation zone and keep us up simple as that, is he going to throw in youngsters just to appease fans constant love of youth players getting played who may or may not be good enough, and have relegation from the SPFL on his CV I think not. As long as they are in and around the team all they can do is prove to the manager their better than what’s in front of them. 

Well aware of that, haven’t advocated any constant love of youth players - not the point I am making, More a take on a man management issue involving new/old management teams we’ve been made aware of.

I’ll bow out for now on development players. Just gives rise to some offering nothing in debate.

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1 hour ago, Kmac said:

Ahh, okay. I didn’t realize asking for ambition and aspiration was now ‘a load of shite’. 
Noted :thumbup:

Where did I say that? Club shows plenty of ambition and aspiration, just not in marquee signings to appease some.

Theres merit in your wanting to add quality - that’s without question. Nobody else, Hibs excepted are doing so either. By choice rather than design on the face of it.

There’s more understanding of how & why we operate the way we do than not. It’s about tempering expectation.

Out of curiosity, who of quality would you have brought in?

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Getting players from clubs deemed to be at a lower level has always been part of our recruitment process. How many great signings came from the juniors, even up to Dougie Arnott?

Going down the leagues in England, if these guys are stand outs, surely they're a risk worth taking? If they're surplus to requirements at their previous clubs, somebody's got to be sure they see something others don't. 

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13 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Well aware of that, haven’t advocated any constant love of youth players - not the point I am making, More a take on a man management issue involving new/old management teams we’ve been made aware of.

I’ll bow out for now on development players. Just gives rise to some offering nothing in debate.

I was trying to promote the youths for ages and got to the stage where I was wasting my time.   Ps.  Still time to sign gilmour on loan!! Lol

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44 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

The objection to signing players from the English lower leagues has been mentioned on many occasions. Where have you been. ?

No one objected to signing Moult, Aldred, Cole, Carson or Hartley so that is nonsense. Other players like Carroll or McGinley have a question mark over them which can be removed by solid performances (or not in the case of McGinley).

Another good example is Tait and Clay who joined from Grimsby at the same time. Tait was clearly the better signing on paper and it worked out that way.

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Players in the lower English leagues could be working their way up the ranks, or could have reached their ceiling, or could be journeymen working themselves back down the leagues.  The trick is to pick the ones in the right category.

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9 hours ago, Kmac said:

With less than 48 hours to go, you can’t help but feeling entirely underwhelmed by the business we have done. There’s no significant increase in quality as yet (yes, lawleff is better than seedorf but who isn’t). IMO we went into this window needing a minimum 3/4 players of significant superior quality to what we have - bodies that would come straight  into the first 11. Not only to help us escape a relegation battle but to also galvanize the support and give us a backbone as we heads into a summer whereby we stand to loose 3-4 of our bigger names (though arguably some of the poorer  performers recently). Lawleff was / is always/should be a squad player, Smith seems decent but again isn’t a focal point or a nailed on starter  and Foley is somewhat of a baffling signing given he’s 34, hardly kicked a ball all season and is on a short term deal. We could have/should have invested in this window however I can’t help but feel we’re doing the absolute minimum as a club to hopefully squeeze out a 10th placed finish.  The abundance of dead wood remains, to be cleared in the summer.
All of which amounts to the most monumental rebuild I can remember, with the distinct possibility of an almost unrecognizable starting 11 next season - that doesn’t hold much hope for a team that might be chasing promotion. 

No significant increase in quality?

Kelly > Chapman

Lawless > Seedorf

Smith > White

Foley > Remains to be seen

Whilst you might find that underwhelming you cant say it hasnt improved the squad feom wherw it was? Im not saying for a minute that I will be happy if this is the end of our business, Id still like to see a couple more last minute deals, even if they are loans to try amd improve our situation, but I am realistic enough not to expect to be "wowed" by them. 

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2 hours ago, Kmac said:

I have absolutely no problem with signing players from lower English leagues. What I do have a problem with is that becoming our default setting with no vision or horizon of a new crop of youth and 5-6 senior pros of quality in the squad to guide youth and emerging talent alike.

Now THIS is something we should all be able to agree with. 

We cannot afford to close off any avenues or markets for finding the best players we can. Getting the balance right in our squad is the key to success, and regardless of how much I liked Stephen Robinson, it cannot be argued that he left us with anything like a balanced squad.

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7 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

No significant increase in quality?

Kelly > Chapman

Lawless > Seedorf

Smith > White

Foley > Remains to be seen

Whilst you might find that underwhelming you cant say it hasnt improved the squad feom wherw it was? Im not saying for a minute that I will be happy if this is the end of our business, Id still like to see a couple more last minute deals, even if they are loans to try amd improve our situation, but I am realistic enough not to expect to be "wowed" by them. 

On the park though?

There is no talk about when Lawless is going to be fit to start, Smith isn't a starter and Foley has barely played and is 34 so might not be ready straight away as well. Kelly is a big upgrade.

Unless we do some business we are relying on essentially the same outfield players we have had all season. Mugabi's form has improved but we are an injury or suspension away from starting Lamie, we are still relying on Cole, Watt and Long for goals and we have no creativity in the squad.

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2 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

I was trying to promote the youths for ages and got to the stage where I was wasting my time.   Ps.  Still time to sign gilmour on loan!! Lol

You certainly weren't wasting your time promoting youths.  You were however being somewhat unrealistic in expecting a conveyor belt style of first-team ready youths to be ready and waiting as and when required.

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1 hour ago, steelboy said:

On the park though?

There is no talk about when Lawless is going to be fit to start, Smith isn't a starter and Foley has barely played and is 34 so might not be ready straight away as well. Kelly is a big upgrade.

Unless we do some business we are relying on essentially the same outfield players we have had all season. Mugabi's form has improved but we are an injury or suspension away from starting Lamie, we are still relying on Cole, Watt and Long for goals and we have no creativity in the squad.

See the 2nd paragraph of my post.....

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39 minutes ago, smiddy said:

m day coming inn  ??

m day moving out   ?? 

m day in the know   ?? 

come on its a sat night and am bored shitless

On the fringes or supermarv are the people to answer those questions, if their twitter feeds are up and running,  or maybe yodo if he is still hearing the voices.

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2 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

On the fringes or supermarv are the people to answer those questions, if their twitter feeds are up and running,  or maybe yodo if he is still hearing the voices.

yodo is a nutcase :scratchhead:

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4 minutes ago, smiddy said:

yodo is a nutcase :scratchhead:

oops maybe should not have said that !!!!   he will be on shortly, with me getting it next, sorry yodo your not a nutcase  ????????????????????

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13 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

On the fringes or supermarv are the people to answer those questions, if their twitter feeds are up and running,  or maybe yodo if he is still hearing the voices.

:meeting:

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