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2020/21 Transfer Discussion Thread

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I'd love it if Robbie Crawford proved me wrong but we need a wee bit extra quality and as I see it we've brought in a player who is around the same level as players we already have. 

It seems a bit random and a bit....desperate.

I'd imagine he'll play wide right rather than through the middle but who knows. 

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Harry Robinson away on loan to QOS

His granny is over on Well Boys3 wishing him good luck.

Wonder  if she tells Robbo what they’re saying about him on there.

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2 hours ago, Shaka said:

Thats EXACTLY why we have Cornelius, Semple & Maguire in our squad, to provide backup. If we need to sign a player who cant cut it at SPL level (hense the reason he played half of Livvys games last season then got dumped from their first team squad and loaned out)to provide cover, then why are we wasting money paying the 3 players above? We'd be as well taking a grand and a half a week and burning it in the street outside Fir Park

So to be clear you were utterly fucking fuming that we didn't sign Hastie on an extended contract to see if he could cut it, yet when we do exactly that with the above it's a waste of money?

 

It's harsh but they clearly aren't good enough.

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19 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

That will be a no then? Heh he.   We could do both......honest

Play Academy players

Play Academy players

Play Academy players

Play Academy players.......

.....Sign a 34 year old injury prone striker.

Maybe there's a hint of a deviation from your oft repeated arguments about the youth players somewhere in there.

In all seriousness yes, they could do both, will do both but more to the point they already do both.  That there are a few youngsters going out on loan or there is no reserve league does not mean the Academy has been wound up or there is no longer a focus on those emerging from it, nor is it the case that every signing we make is done so with view to a making money on them (albeit it is a big part).

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19 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

Play Academy players

Play Academy players

Play Academy players

Play Academy players.......

.....Sign a 34 year old injury prone striker.

Maybe there's a hint of a deviation from your oft repeated arguments about the youth players somewhere in there.

In all seriousness yes, they could do both, will do both but more to the point they already do both.  That there are a few youngsters going out on loan or there is no reserve league does not mean the Academy has been wound up or there is no longer a focus on those emerging from it, nor is it the case that every signing we make is done so with view to a making money on them (albeit it is a big part).

Always value your opinion Andy.    I will always continue to bang the academy drum. I just thought maybe 1 leftfield signing would be an idea.   I just feel our recruitment has went seriously downhill but hey get a result on Sunday and win in Israel and my tune will severely change..(might even start the corny jokes again)......just kiddin.   COYW

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3 hours ago, Stu92 said:

Who says Crawford isn’t good enough for Livingston? Other than people on here who probably have never seen him play.

I think the guy would be better going back now, I can see him being labelled as “pish” Within 15 minutes of being on the pitch.

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10 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I think the guy would be better going back now, I can see him being labelled as “pish” Within 15 minutes of being on the pitch.

You could probably give him a strip with Cornelius on the back and he would be hailed a hero.

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1 hour ago, GazzyB said:

So to be clear you were utterly fucking fuming that we didn't sign Hastie on an extended contract to see if he could cut it, yet when we do exactly that with the above it's a waste of money?

 

It's harsh but they clearly aren't good enough.

Eh? I wanted him signed AND given a chance, then if he turned out good (which seemed the case in his short purple patch) our investment was protected. 

And how can you say Maguire, Semple or Cornelius "clearly arent good enough"? What basis do you have for this statement? Because the manager doesnt pick them? Remember this is a guy who gave his son a game in europe and he proceeded to make a cunt of it and throw away a penalty. A Manager who got rid of our 2 most influential players and leaders to replace them with nothing, who thinks Sherwin Seedorf is a fucking football player, and who had Liam Grimshaw as first name on his teamsheet for months! So forgive me if I dont fully trust his judgement 

With Crawford, he is 27 and has spent his career in the lower leagues. He got "his break" at Livvy last season in the top league, played less than half their games, got dumped and sent out on loan to us! Ive seen him play twice, he was ok but a bit anonymous at times in both games. Ive seen Maguire, Semple & Cornelius all play a few mins here and there and they have been ok/anonymous (although Maguire had a very good game v Celtic!, a higher calibre of team than Crawford has ever performed against) my point is that this looks like a panic signing and a slap in the face of our own players who have been waiting for a chance and are paid to be there in emergencies!

What we need is a bit of  quality. What we have signed is an average championship level midfielder on a panic loan.

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6 hours ago, Shaka said:

Eh? I wanted him signed AND given a chance, then if he turned out good (which seemed the case in his short purple patch) our investment was protected. 

And how can you say Maguire, Semple or Cornelius "clearly arent good enough"? What basis do you have for this statement? Because the manager doesnt pick them? Remember this is a guy who gave his son a game in europe and he proceeded to make a cunt of it and throw away a penalty. A Manager who got rid of our 2 most influential players and leaders to replace them with nothing, who thinks Sherwin Seedorf is a fucking football player, and who had Liam Grimshaw as first name on his teamsheet for months! So forgive me if I dont fully trust his judgement 

With Crawford, he is 27 and has spent his career in the lower leagues. He got "his break" at Livvy last season in the top league, played less than half their games, got dumped and sent out on loan to us! Ive seen him play twice, he was ok but a bit anonymous at times in both games. Ive seen Maguire, Semple & Cornelius all play a few mins here and there and they have been ok/anonymous (although Maguire had a very good game v Celtic!, a higher calibre of team than Crawford has ever performed against) my point is that this looks like a panic signing and a slap in the face of our own players who have been waiting for a chance and are paid to be there in emergencies!

What we need is a bit of  quality. What we have signed is an average championship level midfielder on a panic loan.

Your last paragraph nails it. We are bereft of quality. We need 2/3 players with experience and of a higher caliber than what we have currently, instead we’ve brought in a desperate loan signing from a team around or at a lower level than us. Robinson needs to raise the bar in terms of mentality and ability in the squad, I cannot for the life of me figure out how a loan signing from Livingston does that. On paper, including the boys on loan (who we will Likely  still be paying the majority of salary for given where they have gone), we’ve Got a very large squad. The issue here isn’t bodies, it’s quality. If Campbell is indeed out/injured, the one outfield player we have with that I’m evidence will also not be present - it’s not looking pretty.

For the 50th time on this forum, we surely have money to re-invest here given recent developments. Signings such as the one we have made don’t point to that, it’s a show of desperation and padding out a squad.

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8 hours ago, Shaka said:


And how can you say Maguire, Semple or Cornelius "clearly arent good enough"? What basis do you have for this statement? Because the manager doesnt pick them? 

Yes thats the reason if they were ready to step up they would be given the chance, the same way scott, Turnbull, Hastie, Campbell, Cadden, Erwin etc were given their chance..

I am sick of all the constant rambling on this forum of "play the youth players" does any body really think if SR suddenly  played the 3 players you mention we would improve as a team, I think not, we don't have the class of 92 in the colt team.

They are playing in the reserves for a reason ie they are good enough to be on pro contracts at a premiership club, but not good enough to be a 1st team starter.

So unless you have done your coaching badges, and see these players on a daily basis, then I think I will take the judgement of SR and his team  about who can improve the team rather than your constant rants about " play the youth"

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8 hours ago, Shaka said:

With Crawford, he is 27 and has spent his career in the lower leagues. He got "his break" at Livvy last season in the top league, played less than half their games, got dumped and sent out on loan to us! Ive seen him play twice, he was ok but a bit anonymous at times in both games. Ive seen Maguire, Semple & Cornelius all play a few mins here and there and they have been ok/anonymous (although Maguire had a very good game v Celtic!, a higher calibre of team than Crawford has ever performed against) my point is that this looks like a panic signing and a slap in the face of our own players who have been waiting for a chance and are paid to be there in emergencies!

What we need is a bit of  quality. What we have signed is an average championship level midfielder on a panic loan.

I've said already I know nothing of the player's ability  but I've seen the signing labelled panic on a couple of occasions but going by the comments attributed to Robinson that doesn't seem to be the case at all....

Quote

“It was important we added competition for places in midfield,” manager Stephen Robinson said.

“Having lost Liam Donnelly to injury, and sold David Turnbull, we have been short in numbers in that area.

“With the number of games we are facing in the league, in Europe and in cup competitions, it was vital we increased our pool.

“He comes with Premiership experience and, along with Barry Maguire, brings competition to the midfield.

“Robbie is a player we’ve watched for a number of years. He gives us a bit of bite and tenacity. He has good quality on the ball and is more game ready than some of our younger boys, who have been unable to gain vital game time with no reserve games.

“Bringing in Robbie allows us the chance to put boys out on loan, particularly Jamie Semple, Harry Robinson, Ross MacIver and Dean Cornelius.

“They can gain vital experience doing that and hopefully come back fighting for a place, as we develop the next crop of young players.”

Time will tell whether he turns out to be a good signing or not but whether you agree with signing from a rival, signing a player who can't get a game for a rival, signing a player on loan etc. I don't think you can question too much the rationale behind bringing in another midfielder.

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38 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

 

They are playing in the reserves for a reason ie they are good enough to be on pro contracts at a premiership club, but not good enough to be a 1st team starter.

 

So exactly like Robbie Crawford only 7 years younger?

You also miss the point that if we use the younger players as cover it would give us more money to sign quality starters rather than padding out the squad with dross every season. 

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25 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

I've said already I know nothing of the player's ability  but I've seen the signing labelled panic on a couple of occasions but going by the comments attributed to Robinson that doesn't seem to be the case at all....

Time will tell whether he turns out to be a good signing or not but whether you agree with signing from a rival, signing a player who can't get a game for a rival, signing a player on loan etc. I don't think you can question too much the rationale behind bringing in another midfielder.

No questioning the rationale behind bringing in another midfielder. Clearly we need cover when 6 or so weeks ago I thought we had one of the strongest midfields outside the Old Firm.  With Turnbull sold and Donnelly injured that is no longer the case. God help us if Campbell is injured too. 

I 100% understand where we are in relation to budgets. But it depresses me when you see the Calibre of player Aberdeen are signing. Johnny Hayes and Ross McRorie to add to the likes of Lewis Ferguson and Dylan McGeouch. Hibs also adding quality rather than quantity. 

I hope this is a shrewd signing but I have a feeling the outcome will  be similar to Lamie. Decent squad player to have as back up but not a 1st team starter. If we really are stuck with the squad we have now we are in trouble. On the face of it they are decent players but something is not gelling and our performances have been peppered with poor football and lacking in basics. 

Strangely enough I am more concerned since we started winning games. Our performance v Hibs and even Hamilton until last 15 minutes    had me thinking we were unlucky and we would turn a corner. But v St J and Coleraine I am worried. 

Big week ahead. I expect v little from 2 tough away games and if we are comfortably beaten then nothing will dispel my fears we are in for a long season. If somehow we can perform well in both games and even get a result then I will be pleasantly surprised. 

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I think we need to accept that there will be players coming through that are not good enough, you don’t keep playing them if that’s the case. As far as I know every player we have let go over the last three years or so has not gone on to shine in a big way ? happy for someone to point out otherwise. In the case of McGuire he’s really a central defender if truth be known, he’s just not been able to make the step up. When they are good enough they get their chance, Turnbull, Campbell, Scott, Hastie. If they need further development they go out on loan. People were up in arms that Hastie did not get a long contract earlier, clearly now seen to be the right decision, Turnbull and Scott were offered long contracts and signed signed them, clearly again the right decision. I can’t see how the club have done anything wrong here as nothing at this point shows their judgement was anything less than spot on. You don’t pick players ahead of others just because they came through the ranks, they have to still be good enough. What I do agree on is we need two or three “ quality additions” the club can”t carry on pleading poverty forever. However I’m happy to give the new guy a chance before writing him off just because he did not come through the ranks.

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I totally get both sides of the argument regarding Crawford, personal opinion he’s a decent player and plays for livi so he works hard but they’ve got a really strong midfield, he’ll do exactly as Robinson says. I don’t see the point in youth players who haven’t really kicked on in the last few years of being on the cusp of the first team hanging about for another season, 6 month loan then evaluate how they’ve done and give them a chance if they’ve played well. However I don’t agree with the let’s pay Livingston money for 6 months for a back up midfielder. Why can’t we go push the boat and sign a player of real calibre and class like Aberdeen, Hibs and Killie are, someone like a Scott McDonald in his second stint etc. What our squad is lacking right now is experience and player with a smart football brain.

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Youth/promising players getting a game each weekend for a lower league team or sitting on the bench/not making the bench but us holding on to them for back up. It's a no brainer for me. Send them out for 6 months. I'm into the strategy.

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3 hours ago, superward said:

Youth/promising players getting a game each weekend for a lower league team or sitting on the bench/not making the bench but us holding on to them for back up. It's a no brainer for me. Send them out for 6 months. I'm into the strategy.

Especially this season. The lack of any Reserve league means that on any given week we are going to have a large number of players who are inactive. Training with us and getting competitive matches at the weekend is an excellent way to develop youngsters.

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4 hours ago, superward said:

Youth/promising players getting a game each weekend for a lower league team or sitting on the bench/not making the bench but us holding on to them for back up. It's a no brainer for me. Send them out for 6 months. I'm into the strategy.

The rationale makes perfect sense to me...

 

...if Cornelius isn't quite ready, and isn't getting reserve games either, then it will do his development no good at all, watching from the stands or bench this season. 

 

Hopefully his loan deal works a treat, he comes back to us and then gets the game time.

 

I'm slightly concerned at OTF suggestions that we have already agreed a PCA with Crawford though.

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16 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

The rationale makes perfect sense to me...

 

...if Cornelius isn't quite ready, and isn't getting reserve games either, then it will do his development no good at all, watching from the stands or bench this season. 

 

Hopefully his loan deal works a treat, he comes back to us and then gets the game time.

 

I'm slightly concerned at OTF suggestions that we have already agreed a PCA with Crawford though.

This would be Robinson backing himself to get more out of Crawford than Holt has, he was a promising Championship player.

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If this boy can do a job that none of the young boys can do, and that job needs done to play the way we want to play then fair enough.

That's life and that fitba.

Everyone is kicking off cos weve had a rotten start to the season in the league but the "model" we run has made us money and brought reasonable (which i think is a harsh qualification) success on the pitch.

 

Every chance Crawford is mince but that's the gamble we take.

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Like every player we sign, I’ll reserve judgement until I actually see him play.

Ayr Utd fans certainly rate him very highly.

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14 hours ago, steelboy said:

So exactly like Robbie Crawford only 7 years younger?

You also miss the point that if we use the younger players as cover it would give us more money to sign quality starters rather than padding out the squad with dross every season. 

So we play the younger players while we save our cash waiting to sign the next Zinedine Zidane or Lothar Matthaus as a quality midfield starter and we get pumped week in week out.

You and the other usual suspects would be on immediately bleating about how SR is making a James Hunt of it and we should be " ditching youth" and signing some experienced players. 

Its not a difficult concept to grasp, they  don't get a regular start because they are not good enough to warrant one at Premiership level.

Getting one maybe two players from the reserve team squad stepping up and holding down a 1st team regular start is a bonus for any team, so for us  getting Turnbull, Hastie, Scott, Cadden, Campbell, Erwin, to step up we have done very well they are probably our class of 92, the rest however are not good enough, simples.

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It’s a difficult balance granted, can you give the “they’re not good enough” mantra a break as it’s simply not the case. Mixed messages form coaching department are in play too.

Reserve matches may not give the full picture as much as loaning our prospects isn’t always the answer. Whilst good to see them get game time, their development depends on the structure of the loan and being at a suited club as much as the players’  application . Taking Jamie Semple as an example, Cove Rangers walked their league, given their backing and ambitions are expected to do similar this year - involved as the team are rarely on the backfoot doesn’t suggest a player will return to us  game ready, but, playing against some experience is key?

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