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49 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

It does blow my mind how a manager saves you from relegation gets you a top six finish but has to put up with regular abuse to a manager Ie Robinson left us in said relegation mess,football was just as bad if not worse gets a standing ovation when he returns with St Mirren Something not right with that.Seem to have a fan base with a very selective mind.

Worst fans I don't think so,some toxic entitled fans it's the kinda folk who have the I paid my money mentality so I can act as I want mindset all clubs have them.

did robbo not get us out of relegation bother after Mcghee and 2 cup finals and a 3rd place finish? so i suppose , in the main, he will be remembered fondly...

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10 hours ago, Spit_It_Out said:

It does blow my mind how a manager saves you from relegation gets you a top six finish but has to put up with regular abuse to a manager Ie Robinson left us in said relegation mess,football was just as bad if not worse gets a standing ovation when he returns with St Mirren

Alexander started well,  saved us from going down, last season got us of to a great start in the league, sitting 3rd by Christmas , then it all went wrong, fallouts with senior players , top goal scorer moving to a rival team mid season and our results were shocking, we will never know what started it but for me the dressing room was gone then.

Due to other teams being a shite as us we managed to scrape into the top 6 with the last kick of the ball at livingston and eventually claimed a Euro spot.  However that only covered up the problems Alexander came across as arrogant and unwilling to change his ways to get results, not playing senior pros ie SOD and generally looking like he did not giving a feck he was out of ideas.

In some ways the Sligo defeats as embarrassing as they were done the club a massive favour by finally getting rid of him, because if he had stayed we would be getting more of the same from him this season.  So will he be remembered fondly if he ever turns up at Fir park with another team no chance, for me he will be remembered as the manager who ruined a potentially good season by his arrogance and inability to manage a team and got us pumped by an Irish league team.

 

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Alexander had the chance to sort things out this summer and blew it. He chose to pick fights with Woolery and O'Donnell that weakened the squad and didn't have the players match fit for a game with a lot of prize money at stake. 

We don't know what his discussions and targets were with Burrows and the board for the beginning of this season but if they weren't telling him we need better results than he's produced since January and we need to show up in Europe then something is very wrong. 

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I wish him well for the future and glad he's moved on. 

No argument from me with what he achieved. The issue was always how, it was  ugly but people tended not to mind winning ugly. 

He'll go on to another role, prob in the 4th tier of English footy. 

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1 hour ago, steelboy said:

Alexander had the chance to sort things out this summer and blew it. He chose to pick fights with Woolery and O'Donnell that weakened the squad and didn't have the players match fit for a game with a lot of prize money at stake. 

We don't know what his discussions and targets were with Burrows and the board for the beginning of this season but if they weren't telling him we need better results than he's produced since January and we need to show up in Europe then something is very wrong. 

This.

In a way us scraping into the top six and ‘Europe’ did us more harm than good because I believe had we not scored that last minute leveller at Livingston in April and finished bottom six then Alexander would have been gone at the end of the season. That way we could have got a new manager in in time for pre-season or the League Cup group stages and made the right moves in the transfer market. As it was we were never going to part company with a manager who got us into the top six and qualified for Europe and therefore the board and Alexander were able to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that the results and the shite we served up on the park since January was remotely acceptable.

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1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Alexander started well,  saved us from going down, last season got us of to a great start in the league, sitting 3rd by Christmas , then it all went wrong, fallouts with senior players , top goal scorer moving to a rival team mid season and our results were shocking, we will never know what started it but for me the dressing room was gone then.

 

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

He chose to pick fights with Woolery and O'Donnell that weakened the squad and didn't have the players match fit for a game with a lot of prize money at stake. 

Have to love how these rumours just suddenly become fact.

It seems we've forgotten the calls for O'Donnell to be dropped for being rank rotten, and are overlooking the idea that Woolery is now playing in Turkey most likely making far more coin than we could ever hope to pay him.

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Ultimately he'll go down as one of a few managers in recent times who came in to do a job when we were struggling, did that job pretty well, but then didn't really know what to do next. Here's hoping our next one will leave because of his successes, rather than running out of ideas.

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25 minutes ago, numpty said:

Ultimately he'll go down as one of a few managers in recent times who came in to do a job when we were struggling, did that job, but then didn't really know what to do next. Here's hoping our next one will leave because of his successes, rather than running out of ideas.

I don’t think Robinson was any different, he more or said so. He was tired of having to constantly build new squads after losing our best players. It’s certainly my belief that Motherwell is now a very tough gig. Limited budget and a percentage of the fanbase who have the mentality that whatever you do it’s never enough. Both Robinson and Alexander took tons of abuse even when reaching cup finals and finishing top six in the league. Where does any manager go from that point, with our budget it’s only going to be backwards. I think the targets set by the board are very different from the targets set by a minority of the fanbase. For Kelly to get the abuse he did at the Sligo game and online was absolutely shocking.

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Just now, numpty said:

Ultimately he'll go down as one of a few managers in recent times who came in to do a job when we were struggling, did that job, but then didn't really know what to do next. Here's hoping our next one will leave because of his successes, rather than running out of ideas.

The thing is, there's context to be had during his run, like most things in life.

Did he run out of ideas? I'm not so sure he did. He was embarking on a new season where he was looking to bring in fewer players and run with a tighter squad.

He came in and steered us out of trouble, that much is true. But he also had to deal with managing the club during a time of short-notice suspensions and even call-offs due to Covid, which had a pretty substantial effect on recruitment not just for us, but other clubs in the league.

Let's be honest, there's a reason why most clubs in the league last season were terrible. Over the season we brought in 16 players. I think most of the league clubs brought in extra bodies to try and help deal with any potential Covid suspensions, but the kicker is that they had to do it without an increase in budget. 

Basically, we all needed more players on less wages to make up the numbers, which is why I think our squad (and the squads of those around us) were bloated and the quality simply wasn't great. 

That doesn't even begin to address the issues with training and masks and social distancing and all that jazz. 

Those aren't excuses, that's just how it was. It was a really tough time to come into a football club and try to successful manage a squad of players. 

On his record, we finished last season in 5th with a record of 12 wins, 10 draws, and 16 losses. The year before St Johnstone finished 5th with a record of 11 wins, 12 draws, and 15 losses. And in 208/19, Hibs finished 5th with a record of 14 wins, 12 draws, and 12 losses. So, it's hardly as if our record last season is all that terrible. Where Alexander faced issues was in having what was a very good start to the season, followed by a terrible finish. He even snagged a few Manager of the Month awards, didn't he?

Flip those around and he'd be considered a managerial mastermind for changing things up. The result at the end of the season would have been the same though. 

On signings, personally, I think McGinn and Spittal will come good for us. I actually prefer the idea of signing less players, but players who have a decent pedigree in our game, than signing 8-10 new players from down south who are all huge gambles.

Spittal made 37 appearances for County last season, while Mcginn played 34 times for Hibs. We know what we're getting from those two. Neither will be amazing, but they could both be good, solid first team players for Motherwell for a good few years. 

Morris I don't know much about, but last season aside he seems to have a solid reputation in League One down south, playing over 30 games each season in four out of the five he was at Fleetwood and Scunthorpe.

In conclusion, I think Alexander will be fine. He'll get another job down south no problem, mostly because the comments from Gary Neville about how they made a huge mistake in sacking him at Salford, plus his record there, and at Scunthorpe and Fleetwood will hold more authority than him being binned by us in what most down south consider to be an inferior league. I expect he'll pop up in League One or Two before the season is out.

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2 hours ago, steelboy said:

Alexander had the chance to sort things out this summer and blew it.

Thats it for me. Last season was what it was. He achieved the results, albeit with a very poor second half to the season. The football on offer wasn't very attractive but I could live with it. I always had the impression that he wasn' getting the best from the palyers he had at his disposal for whatever reason.  The Sligo games changed it for me. I was looking for some indication, however modest, that he was changing things, but that just didn't happen.  The rest is history. 

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1 hour ago, David said:

 

Have to love how these rumours just suddenly become fact.

It seems we've forgotten the calls for O'Donnell to be dropped for being rank rotten, and are overlooking the idea that Woolery is now playing in Turkey most likely making far more coin than we could ever hope to pay him.

How else can you explain it then Watt suddenly wanting a move, SOD getting picked for Scotland and not playing with us, Slattery allegedly injured and not playing for weeks, and then Woolery suddenly fancying a Turkish delight.

He lost the dressing room and as I have said his own arrogance and lack of a plan B gave us 3 wins in 14 games thank feck for Lamie we made top 6.

Yes this might all be conspiracy theory shite but as we will never know the truth it will do for now

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1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

How else can you explain it then Watt suddenly wanting a move, SOD getting picked for Scotland and not playing with us, Slattery allegedly injured and not playing for weeks, and then Woolery suddenly fancying a Turkish delight.

It's not really that hard to explain. 

Tony Watt was offered more money  to go to Dundee United. Simple as that. He didn't "suddenly" want a move, he became interested when he realised not only could he move in the summer and earn more than we were paying him, but could leave us in January and start earning higher wages quicker. 

Same goes with Woolery. He didn't "suddenly" fancy a move to Turkey. He only became interested once the opportunity popped up, and rightfully so, as he'll also be on more money than we were paying him. 

And are just going to kid on that O'Donnell had been playing well for us and that all of the Motherwell fans were fully behind him getting picked for Scotland? Go back to the start of the year and into March on this forum and see the type of reaction O'Donnell was getting.

In fact, just put his name in the search bar above. 

Screenshot 2022-08-03 at 13.40.04.png

So let's not kid on that O'Donnell being dropped was a travesty, and was all down to him arguing and falling out with the manager. It wasn't. He was shit.

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

He lost the dressing room and as I have said his own arrogance and lack of a plan B gave us 3 wins in 14 games thank feck for Lamie we made top 6.

Did he lose the dressing room? It's interesting that we're all willing to buy into rumours and made-up "facts" yet the only noises coming out the dressing room are from our captain and best player who says exactly the opposite.

Do we believe him? Or just ignore Kelly's comments because it doesn't fit with the anti-Alexander narrative?

I didn't think Alexander was particularly great as a manager, but I'm also not that sure we can expect to do much better. Alexander's record down south is decent enough, with promotion won for Fleetwood Town, took Scunthorpe to the play-offs, and got Salford promoted while taking them to a cup final. I know lots of our fans like to kid themselves on that he was a donkey, but his record says otherwise.

Let's hope the next guy we bring in can live up to the lofty expectations of the experts we have in our fanbase.

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3 minutes ago, David said:

It's not really that hard to explain. 

Tony Watt was offered more money  to go to Dundee United. Simple as that. He didn't "suddenly" want a move, he became interested when he realised not only could he move in the summer and earn more than we were paying him, but could leave us in January and start earning higher wages quicker. 

Same goes with Woolery. He didn't "suddenly" fancy a move to Turkey. He only became interested once the opportunity popped up, and rightfully so, as he'll also be on more money than we were paying him. 

And are just going to kid on that O'Donnell had been playing well for us and that all of the Motherwell fans were fully behind him getting picked for Scotland? Go back to the start of the year and into March on this forum and see the type of reaction O'Donnell was getting.

In fact, just put his name in the search bar above. 

Screenshot 2022-08-03 at 13.40.04.png

So let's not kid on that O'Donnell being dropped was a travesty, and was all down to him arguing and falling out with the manager. It wasn't. He was shit.

Did he lose the dressing room? It's interesting that we're all willing to buy into rumours and made-up "facts" yet the only noises coming out the dressing room are from our captain and best player who says exactly the opposite.

Do we believe him? Or just ignore Kelly's comments because it doesn't fit with the anti-Alexander narrative?

I didn't think Alexander was particularly great as a manager, but I'm also not that sure we can expect to do much better. Alexander's record down south is decent enough, with promotion won for Fleetwood Town, took Scunthorpe to the play-offs, and got Salford promoted while taking them to a cup final. I know lots of our fans like to kid themselves on that he was a donkey, but his record says otherwise.

Let's hope the next guy we bring in can live up to the lofty expectations of the experts we have in our fanbase.

Nah I'll stick to the "GA was an arrogant hopeless man manager and coach with limited abilities  who had no idea how to get us winning again" conspiracy,  he's history now so Let's wait and see who his replacement is.

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24 minutes ago, David said:

It's not really that hard to explain. 

Tony Watt was offered more money  to go to Dundee United. Simple as that. He didn't "suddenly" want a move, he became interested when he realised not only could he move in the summer and earn more than we were paying him, but could leave us in January and start earning higher wages quicker. 

Same goes with Woolery. He didn't "suddenly" fancy a move to Turkey. He only became interested once the opportunity popped up, and rightfully so, as he'll also be on more money than we were paying him. 

And are just going to kid on that O'Donnell had been playing well for us and that all of the Motherwell fans were fully behind him getting picked for Scotland? Go back to the start of the year and into March on this forum and see the type of reaction O'Donnell was getting.

In fact, just put his name in the search bar above. 

Screenshot 2022-08-03 at 13.40.04.png

So let's not kid on that O'Donnell being dropped was a travesty, and was all down to him arguing and falling out with the manager. It wasn't. He was shit.

Did he lose the dressing room? It's interesting that we're all willing to buy into rumours and made-up "facts" yet the only noises coming out the dressing room are from our captain and best player who says exactly the opposite.

Do we believe him? Or just ignore Kelly's comments because it doesn't fit with the anti-Alexander narrative?

I didn't think Alexander was particularly great as a manager, but I'm also not that sure we can expect to do much better. Alexander's record down south is decent enough, with promotion won for Fleetwood Town, took Scunthorpe to the play-offs, and got Salford promoted while taking them to a cup final. I know lots of our fans like to kid themselves on that he was a donkey, but his record says otherwise.

Let's hope the next guy we bring in can live up to the lofty expectations of the experts we have in our fanbase.

Supporters make things up, always have and always will. Sometimes simple facts like a player actually not playing well enough to retain their place is not seen as good enough, even when half the fan base is stating they’re shit. The “lost the dressing room” is trotted out time and time again, I doubt it’s true 95% of the time.

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17 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

Supporters make things up, always have and always will. Sometimes simple facts like a player actually not playing well enough to retain their place is not seen as good enough, even when half the fan base is stating they’re shit. The “lost the dressing room” is trotted out time and time again, I doubt it’s true 95% of the time.

So we had 10 out of 11 (Kelly excepted) players all suffering a slump in form at the same time then week after week, I guess the club was just unlucky then.

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25 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

So we had 10 out of 11 (Kelly excepted) players all suffering a slump in form at the same time then week after week, I guess the club was just unlucky then.

Oh luck can play a part, many  other factors do of course including losing your most effective player and confidence dropping when you go on a poor run. Injuries can also be added to that but the old “lost the dressing room” is just a tired cliche in many cases in my view. How often is that said followed by players then signing extended contracts ? It it was that bad why did Lamie choose to stay, Van Veen sign an extended contract, Kelly speak up for Alexander to name just three examples. Was  ODonnell playing well enough to retain his place, Slattery fit enough ? . There will always be players who fall out with managers, certainly if not being picked, or dropped, that’s just football. In any dressing room there will be four or five not happy.

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David and Yorkyred I admire you for your ongoing robust defence of our former Manager. If you believe there was no animosity between Alexander and former/current players which affected moral within the squad then I think you are in the minority. Like everyone else you are entitled to your opinion and you fight your corner well. Whether any such animosity was justified or otherwise at times is another discussion.

As for O'Donnell being "shit", even an out of form O'Donnell was miles better than Mugabi at right back. And I'm not having a dig at Mugabi as he was clearly trying his best and doing as he was instructed. SOD is one who certainly has his detractors (as you highlighted) but how many of them were on his back before he even kicked a ball for us? Whatever, he  certainly brought a better balance to the team when he featured.

That's the same Mugabi who was repeatedly exposed at right back by Alexander ( and we are seeing the effect on Mugabi to this day) whilst a reportedly fully fit SOD was left to rot on the bench. Why, if not for spite? Drop him altogether if he has no chance of featuring. Like he did with Liam Grimshaw.  Alexander even resorted to O'Hara rather than O'Donnell on occasion. Seems quite clear to me, as it did with Slattery, Woolery and others who seemed to be ignored no matter what.

One thing you cannot deny or deflect from is that the performances on the pitch were really what was "shit" for 6 months, and arguably longer. Both in a tactical sense and a results sense. And that in most people's view was down to Alexander's refusal to adapt or try a fresh approach when his approach was failing. Sure, the players were not blameless, but it was the depressing and seemingly clueless match day performances that brought his time as Manager to an end.  In fact but for a loyalty shown by our Board Alexander might not have lasted to season end. He was given credit for earlier achievements and allowed to take us into a new season in the hope that he could improve the situation. Had he shown any inclination to adapt he may well have survived a bit longer. 

Alexander does have his supporters amongst the players he left behind,  but I honestly think the number thankful to see the back of him will be in the majority. Whatever, as professionals they all need to pull together to take the Club forward. No matter who the new Manager is.

 

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1 hour ago, dennyc said:

David and Yorkyred I admire you for your ongoing robust defence of our former Manager. If you believe there was no animosity between Alexander and former/current players which affected moral within the squad then I think you are in the minority. Like everyone else you are entitled to your opinion and you fight your corner well. Whether any such animosity was justified or otherwise at times is another discussion.

As for O'Donnell being "shit", even an out of form O'Donnell was miles better than Mugabi at right back. And I'm not having a dig at Mugabi as he was clearly trying his best and doing as he was instructed. SOD is one who certainly has his detractors (as you highlighted) but how many of them were on his back before he even kicked a ball for us? Whatever, he  certainly brought a better balance to the team when he featured.

That's the same Mugabi who was repeatedly exposed at right back by Alexander ( and we are seeing the effect on Mugabi to this day) whilst a reportedly fully fit SOD was left to rot on the bench. Why, if not for spite? Drop him altogether if he has no chance of featuring. Like he did with Liam Grimshaw.  Alexander even resorted to O'Hara rather than O'Donnell on occasion. Seems quite clear to me, as it did with Slattery, Woolery and others who seemed to be ignored no matter what.

One thing you cannot deny or deflect from is that the performances on the pitch were really what was "shit" for 6 months, and arguably longer. Both in a tactical sense and a results sense. And that in most people's view was down to Alexander's refusal to adapt or try a fresh approach when his approach was failing. Sure, the players were not blameless, but it was the depressing and seemingly clueless match day performances that brought his time as Manager to an end.  In fact but for a loyalty shown by our Board Alexander might not have lasted to season end. He was given credit for earlier achievements and allowed to take us into a new season in the hope that he could improve the situation. Had he shown any inclination to adapt he may well have survived a bit longer. 

Alexander does have his supporters amongst the players he left behind,  but I honestly think the number thankful to see the back of him will be in the majority. Whatever, as professionals they all need to pull together to take the Club forward. No matter who the new Manager is.

 

Great Post Dennyc and your point on odonnell is my view also.  For other poster to say dropped because he was shit is actually laughable and whilst yes he had poor games he was and is still the best full back in squad and Alexander definitely had a fall out with him. This did happen .

Odonnell is from our area and I'm sure there are some on here that know him or his family or friends and this is why it's easy to confirm. 

 

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59 minutes ago, dennyc said:

As for O'Donnell being "shit", even an out of form O'Donnell was miles better than Mugabi at right back. And I'm not having a dig at Mugabi as he was clearly trying his best and doing as he was instructed. SOD is one who certainly has his detractors (as you highlighted) but how many of them were on his back before he even kicked a ball for us? Whatever, he  certainly brought a better balance to the team when he featured.

That's the same Mugabi who was repeatedly exposed at right back by Alexander ( and we are seeing the effect on Mugabi to this day) whilst a reportedly fully fit SOD was left to rot on the bench. Why, if not for spite? Drop him altogether if he has no chance of featuring. Like he did with Liam Grimshaw.  Alexander even resorted to O'Hara rather than O'Donnell on occasion. Seems quite clear to me, as it did with Slattery, Woolery and others who seemed to be ignored no matter what.

 

Firstly its strange that a management team  on Defenders could not train a team to defend.

O'Donnell was a big upgrade on Grimshaw when he arrived, but was at fault for far too many bad goals and deserved to be dropped. Mugabi IMO  was one of our best players last year and even at right back was effective initially, however latterly was found wanting and his weakness exposed.  But i would say that his confidence must have take a battering after that first leg against Sligo and the abuse he got for it. 

I feel the recruitment and player judgement has let  Alexander down badly,  That includes the numerous January jersey fillers that amounted to the square sum of nothing in the defensive area Ojala looked good when signed but now is slower than a week in jail, Solholm may be a good lad but is a championship defender at beat, Giving Carroll and McGinlay extensions was madness. 

The associated wingers forwards that have come and gone are not the quality required and have left i include Woolery in this you need more than just pace.

We have not one player that can carry the ball commit a player or beat a player.  Infact last year we had a team that couldn't even string a couple of passes together.

Not in the camp that loosing Watt was disastrous, Watt is a journeyman generally lazy and does not stay at a club for long look at his record, i feel that we saw him having a purple patch it was best of him. Has he scored against anyone else bar us playing for Dundee Utd  he was particularly good at falling over and winning free kicks in dangerous areas and we benefited from that, not replacing him with another CF was a mistake.

The SPFL quality is terrible is that to do with the pressure on the players and teams to stay in the league i'm not sure , but i do think that managers that are unfamiliar with the Scottish game misjudge the type of player required. Hopefully a new manager will unearth a few gems and be able to train the team in a way that provides attractive football aka mcghee V1. There was something wrong when we played lower league opposition and they passed us off the park.

I was hoping that Alexander could have turned it around but as I've said before not preparing properly for a big money tie in Europe is reason for letting him go. Austria! waist of money, should have been in Ireland or somewhere playing all the teams he could it get some sharpness into them,

Onwards and upwards, a quality manager could make some difference in this league, even like what Hammy is saying about promoting youth all good until your at the wrong end of the league with everyone crying because you've no experience.

 

 

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We better hope Alexander either lost  a significant part of the dressing room or hadn't a clue what he was doing tactically, because if that was a happy squad of players playing to the best of their abilities, we're in deep shit.

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1 hour ago, dennyc said:

As for O'Donnell being "shit", even an out of form O'Donnell was miles better than Mugabi at right back. And I'm not having a dig at Mugabi as he was clearly trying his best and doing as he was instructed. SOD is one who certainly has his detractors (as you highlighted) but how many of them were on his back before he even kicked a ball for us? Whatever, he  certainly brought a better balance to the team when he featured.

The thing is, if you go back and read the posts from January to March you'll see that I was fully supportive of O'Donnell. I wouldn't have dropped him, but the manager dropped him because he looked to suffer a dip in form, which cannot be argued against.

I don't think Mugabi is better than him at right-back, and believe O'Donnell was our best option there last season, but there's a lot of fans who didn't think that. They were screaming for O'Donnell to get punted. 

The point I'm making is that now, looking back, there's fans changing the narrative retrospectively because they want to shoehorn in the notion that he had a falling out with the manager, and that it's Alexander's fault. When in reality they were glad to see O'Donnell benched.

And I'm not saying that there wasn't tension between O'Donnell and Alexander. There should be, considering O'Donnell wants to play and the manager had dropped him. But let's not kid on that O'Donnell was dropped because he challenged Alexander, which is what some folk are saying. He was dropped because he didn't play well last season, which is the reason Alexander brought in McGinn to replace him.

 

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41 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

We better hope Alexander either lost  a significant part of the dressing room or hadn't a clue what he was doing tactically, because if that was a happy squad of players playing to the best of their abilities, we're in deep shit.

He also signed some shit players.

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3 minutes ago, wellfan said:

He also signed some shit players.

Every manager does. Question is, how many?

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6 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

How else can you explain it then Watt suddenly wanting a move, SOD getting picked for Scotland and not playing with us, Slattery allegedly injured and not playing for weeks, and then Woolery suddenly fancying a Turkish delight.

He lost the dressing room and as I have said his own arrogance and lack of a plan B gave us 3 wins in 14 games thank feck for Lamie we made top 6.

Yes this might all be conspiracy theory shite but as we will never know the truth it will do for now

thought sod cme on on sunday and looked quite good but at times was lucky to be getting in Motherwell team , never mind Scotland

Woolery again was limited but had great pace, havent heard anything about supposed fall out?

Slattery , there may be more to it than simply getting dropped

That only leaves Watt, who has doubled his wages

Not sticking up for GA but sometimes the truth is a whole lot duller than people want to believe

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