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And I think that sums up the general mindset of our country. We limit ourselves at the outset, actually even before that. I get why we have the rain day mentality, there's various socio-economic reasons for it. Not a criticism lads, just our general make up as Scots unless you choose to buck the trend. I'm not suggesting we'd could do anything other than something appropriate or bankrupt the club, that would be grossly irresponsible. But you gotta aspire to more than the sum of your parts, trying to see that play out on the park is why we show up week after week isn't it? Being so focused on the here and now on stuff such as personal inconvenience gripes isn't for me. I've tried to illustrate why I think it could work and provided numbers (even if back of fag packet maths and no doubt with many holes), it's a bit more than nah it'll never work, we need to know our place, etc. Simply put Fir Park will always be limiting to our ambition and revenue. Maintenance will be like the Forth Bridge, the McLean is needing major work done to it throughout and probably the most pressing as we currently earn a fair whack of cash thanks to it. The POD is on life support and no longer fit for purpose. The Hunter will follow as it's roof needs addressed, then the floodlights and the Cooper, before the pitch or the McLean needs another touch up. All I've tried to show is rather than syphoning money into Fir Park that can be directed to a new venue that gives you 20-25 years with minimal maintenance. A new POD (is £8m fair? in construction and lost revenue), POD brought up to standard (£2m), other stands and infrastructure (£2m), ongoing maintenance over the next 20 years (£4m) and never realised commercial revenues because FP is hemmed into a residential area with limited premium options (£4m). I've highlighted that for ever 1,000 seats we make available to OF fans beyond their current 4,800 allocation (that brings in £2m extra income over 20 years, so sell 9,800 seats to OF/Hearts = £10m). Those all combined have us at £30m. If you feel that's generous, then what we're about to spend at Dalziel Park you can add in too as all the features of the new facility will already be part of any new main stand. That's all before you add in rents, SFA hiring the stadium for U21's etc, concerts and an expected boost in the home gate. Something of this magnitude can't be looked at as an isolated outlay but a long term investment. I do find it odd that folk are so quick to tell us to limit ambitions when pretty much most adults on this will buy or have bought a house worth more than they have available in the bank and in many cases will use every penny of the 5.5x their current salary to maximise what they can realise.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, we're in danger of oversimplifying what goes into these types of decisions. It's not simply a case of looking at the fixture list and deciding to rest half the team because there's a European game coming up. From what I gather, the players are monitored pretty closely. The staff will have data on how far they've run, how much high-intensity running they've done, sprints, accelerations, training loads and how all of that compares to their normal levels. Then you've got the medical side. A player can be perfectly fit to play but still have a bit of tightness or be carrying a heavier workload than normal. The advice might be that he's fine for 30 minutes, fine for 60, or that another 90 minutes probably isn't a great idea. They'll also look at recovery, how the player has been training, how many minutes he's played recently and his own injury history. A 21-year-old who has hardly missed a game through injury might be treated differently from a 30-year-old with a history of hamstring problems. The opposition (and the playing surface, no matter how much some people like to dismiss it) comes into it as well. The coaching staff will have analysed them and worked out where they think they can afford to make changes without weakening the team too much. So the manager might effectively be getting told that Player A is absolutely fine, Player B has played a lot but isn't a concern, Player C is showing signs of fatigue and Player D is carrying a minor issue that could become a bigger problem. He then has to make the decision. That's particularly relevant for a club like ours when we're playing Thursday-Sunday-Thursday and have been doing that for several weeks. Some players could end up playing four or five games in a fortnight if you just keep putting out the strongest XI. That doesn't mean rotation is always the right decision. Managers can still get it wrong. You can change too many players, lose the rhythm of the team and end up going out of a competition you had a decent chance of progressing in. Teams far bigger with managers far more experienced than us have slipped on that banana peel before. But I do think it's worth remembering when we see a team selection we don't like that the manager isn't working with the same information we are. We're looking at the names on the teamsheet. He's looking at the teamsheet plus all the physical, medical, training and opposition information behind it. We can argue with the decision he eventually makes. But there's usually a lot more behind that decision than simply "Europe is more important, so we'll rest a few players."

Overall AP was one of the worst signings we have paid for in a long time Always in the wrong place , 2 yards short, never really looked interested at all in his time here and permanently injured. Think he wanted away after two months here.

I agree that the Society doesn't run the club, but it does own the club on behalf of the members i.e. the fans. I don't think folk on here, including myself, want it to get involved with mundane issues like the cost of a bovril or the plumbing in the POD. However, I'd say that a study into the pros and cons of replacing the POD versus moving to a new stadium is of great interest and a summary of the findings should be made public. Now, we don't need to know detailed costings or a line by line account. All we need to know is the conclusions with some basic reasoning behind it. The report was received back in February, about 7 months ago. Surely the Club Board and the Society have got a good grasp of what its recommending and why? If that isn't a major strategic issue then I don't know what is. Finally, the POD seating. There is widespread concern amongst inhabitants of the stand about the seating and Brian Caldwell, under pressure directly from fans, was forced to issue a statement. That was helpful up to a point. However, the Society, as representative of the fans, has, ostensibly, taken no part in the issue apart from passively passing on complaints. We have no idea, despite asking, if the Society has even discussed member concerns, let alone expressed them to Brian. The Society has been great for the club and lets not forget it has saved it and I'm a firm supporter, but it isn't above criticism.

So both pundits on Sportscene agree it’s a foul in the lead up to the 1st St Mirren goal. Both pundits agree the missed penalty should have been retaken. The fact that Clancy needed to see the handball on a tv despite having a great view in real time sums up how bad he was. The standard of officiating is at an all time low in Scotland but as usual it’ll be swept under the carpet as it’s not against Rangers or Celtic.

Not sure about that as a midfield three.

Should have been outta sight but still we salvaged a draw. Lets remember a few things. 1) lost a great manager and 5 first team regulars 2) have brought in 10 players spending a good amount of money and a manager I think is going to be a success. 3) we have had a heavy schedule plus a bad injury list. 4) trust me. I am really excited once everyone fit COYW

I think this is the crux of where we are at present. Whether anyone feels the board gets a free pass because of the managerial recruitment and the general perception that the club has been well managed in recent history is, ultimately, I'm sorry to advise, a matter of personal opinion. Likewise, some are seemingly quite happy to overlook ratified policies designed to protect everyone involved and provide clarity, because their personal ambivalence towards those policies appears to be directly linked to the state of our bank balance ..... £1m in the bank and operating loss "can you explain yourselves please" vs £15 million in transfer business in 13 months, "do what you like lads". You may believe that, despite those processes being in place, the ordinary fan shouldn't meddle. These are all positions I've seen voiced on this subject in the past month on both forums. But if you're going to argue that, then surely the alternative and fair position is that the 'owners' of the club should at least have been furnished with the bare minimum supporting documentation, allowing us to review it, ask questions and form an informed opinion. At the very least, it moves the discussion beyond the rather convenient position and potentially the banked on one of assuming a lot of fans will say "I'm not qualified to have an opinion on it." Keeping transfers ultra secret and family members in baseball caps and scarves is fun and welcome but for that in isolation. We were told at the AGM that the feasibility report had been received two weeks previously and that the board hadn't had sufficient time to digest it. But you're two weeks out from the one event in the calendar where you are directly accountable to the club's owners. Couldn't you at least skim it? Turn to the final page conclusions, understand the broad recommendations and provide a condensed summary to the people you're ultimately answerable to. The business we've done recently means we're at a fork in the road with true choices when before our path was very much defined for us. Reality check: in theory, we're a fan-owned club (yes, the italics are deliberate). With that comes an expectation, rightly or wrongly, of a greater level of transparency and accountability than you might reasonably expect from a traditional local businessman, whale or venture-capital. That's part of the bargain and covenant of fan ownership. And whether each individual fan personally has an appetite for that level of scrutiny is ultimately immaterial. A process was defined for matters of this nature. It was ratified, presumably for good reason, and it exists to provide protection and clarity for everyone involved. That process has, to a large extent, been ignored and a plan steamrollered. And that's the bit I find concerning. Not necessarily the outcome, not even necessarily the decision that was made, it's the precedent that has now been set. If a ratified process can simply be bypassed because, in this particular instance, it was inconvenient, expensive or ultimately could have been opposed to a desired outcome, what's to stop exactly the same thing happening again? If some recall, the club had to be reigned in when Sevco faced demotion to the 4th tier, Derek Weir and Dempster outlined the real implications for the club, but they still took it to the support/owners even if they personally may have voted the opposite way due to their roles as directors. However they then had a mandate. Once you've established that a process can be ignored because it worked out alright this time, you've rather undermined the whole point of having the process in the first place.

Very much this. The thing is that Brian knows many fans may be unhappy with the outcome but he is also aware that very few will vote with their feet or move elsewhere. Nobody likes change and the prime seats elsewhere are spoken for. Plus fans are loyal to the team they support and build up relationships with those fans sitting beside them. I note Brian has backtracked from hinting that fans would have to be relocated elsewhere in the ground. For me that possibility came across as a threat. Now he mentions being relocated within the POD. A grudging acceptance perhaps that there is scope to reduce capacity and still house all Season Ticket holders currently within the POD. If the willing is there. What we should now see is a proposal to reconfigure the POD in the lead up up to next season, detailing exactly where each season ticket holder would end up. Put that out for consultation then proceed if agreed. Exactly what should have happened this time round. Again Brian stated that the need for change was identified months before season end and in anticipation of hosting European fixtures. So it is disappointing that for a Club so closely linked to it's supporters that consultation was not considered appropriate. I agree finance appears to have been the driver from the outset and sadly the views of those affected will continue to be largely ignored. In time those complaints will disappear as folk give up hope. Brian's interview indicated to me that the man is not for turning. As for the Society? Their role appears to have been to act as postman. The discussions I had with them suggested that all correspondence had been passed to Brian. But also that that was the limit to which they wished to get involved. What Brian says etc etc. I actually find it sad that we are having this discussion. On the pitch the performances have been fantastic and the progress the team has made under Jens and Alfred has been amazing. The quality of player and football we are seeing week upon week is exceptional. Football is fun once again. The fan base has grown beyond what anyone could have hoped for. Away games are a joy and we fear no-one. The Board have excelled in moving on from Jens in identifying and supporting his replacement so credit to them for that. Brian has even called out Celtic and their toxic fans which is a brave thing to do. But they have let themselves down in this one area.

Should we tell them

Roma ladies away strip would be better..

I think the club have been more than patient with them (whoever they are and whatever group they congregate with before any apologist jumps in). I know the club like to promote this cuddly wee community club line where everyone is welcome and we're all Jock Tamsons bairns but they need to recognise that we have an element in our support that would appear to thumb their noses at that and they need dealt with pronto otherwise our reputation will slowly go down the drain. My particular gripe is the mess they leave with their penchant for plastering every available surface in away grounds with stickers and graffiti for which we've had to fork out a pretty penny to other clubs to remove. Grow up boys and support your team the proper way and don't spoil it for the majority. Your actions tonight is 2 fingers up to the club and your fellow fans.

Have a day off ffs, Im glad the team dont take that " we know our level" attitude, our level is whatever we want it to be, play to win every game we take part in and see where we end up. We wont win them all but with the right attitude we can be the best we can be. This has probably been our best ever Euro adventure, 4 great results in Q2 and Q3 and eliminated by a far better team who struggled to break us down until we went down to 10 men in both games. So why not try some positivity for a change instead of your usual negative doom and gloom trolling shite, you might actually enjoy it

The voice of sanity: the manager's had an amazingly difficult time dealing with a new country and language (though his English is better than some of the pundits on Sportsound), a wife and new baby living here too,, a squad in turmoil during the window, a raft of injuries and obvious difficulties in recruitment, particularly up front. He's already explained the quick sequence of fixtures has meant he's had very little coaching time and to work on tactics and, after one of our best nights in Europe, people turn on him after he warned us about our difficulties in beating lowly opposition in the LC last season and that we can't always play to our best because of all the availability problems. That plastic pitch would hamper any team which depends on accurate passing and all teams playing on that surface know this. Whatever happens on Thursday, I'm sure AJ will play the best team he can to carry out his chosen game-plan. We need to get behind the team and make FP start rocking again.

He scored 17 goals in 26 games for Newcastle Jets the season we signed him and had just broken into the Australian team. A team that would prove good enough to reach the World Cup via Asian qualifying. That’s not easy. When we signed him nobody on here thought it was a poor signing or that £250k was excessive. In truth folk got excited. For whatever reason it did not work out despite early promise. I remember a goal at Ibrox and a cracking strike at Easter Road. Whether it was family reasons, style of football, injury, homesickness, attitude or Managerial choice we will never know but it was certainly a signing everybody thought was refreshing and showed ambition. . His biggest critics appear to have forgotten that, or chosen not to accurately remember. But it did not work out and better for him to move on. I agree it could have happened earlier. I wish him well and would not be surprised if he is a success wherever he ends up.

Bloody hell it's started. Calm down a wee bit. Beat at ibrox 1-0 and everyone is hopeless. Cmon let's be sensible here

Alfred is basically a slightly more cuddly, less scarey Jens (with hair). We are currently 3 points better off than we were this time last season. Even if we lose to Rangers we will still be 2 points better off after 5 games. All that with having totally replaced nearly the entire team. After the Rangers game we have a 10 day break. We then play Aberdeen and Dundee and go into the international break. I suspect that come October we will be starting to see the real Alfred Johansson Motherwell side. Im pretty excited about the prospect.

I think there are a lot of things going on with Maswanhise at the moment. Firstly, he must be really disappointed that he hasnt got his big move over the close season like a number of his team mates. As the leagues top scorer, he probably thought it was a shoe in. Thats disappointing for him, but also for us as a club as we havent got top market value for him. Secondly, with the turnover of squad, he is no longer the main man up top. We have a number of players putting in top performances and challenging for his position. That will have him feeling the pressure a bit. Both those things will have him bursting a gut to prove he is still the main man and worthy of a big move. There is no shortage of effort from him. He puts in the hard yards tracking back and is always looking for the ball further forward. You can question his decision making (I have) and you can highlight his current poor form (I have) but the player hasnt spat the dummy. Now it looks like he is going to be with us until January, I think its time we circle the wagons and put an arm round him and see if we cant help him recover his form. He is our asset, and January is last chance saloon for us to make any money out of him.

Incredible to see individual players being slated when we've just put in a superb team performance and got a great result. It was the same at the match last night when all I heard was Vogts being criticised. Not great goals, great performance, great start to the season..... It seems like even when things are about as good as they will ever be for Motherwell fans, a lot of them still want to whine and moan. Seriously, after last night we are talking about Maswanhise's alleged taxi conduct? It'd be funny if it wasn't also grim as fuck.

Could be a first. I’m 70 and I don’t remember it happening but that might be because I’m 70 😂

We've recruited well so far but I'm not having that. Moormann's been good but Welsh was a level above in my opinion.

Don't think the new signing fits in with our style of signing this window. Perhaps there's an agreement that he changes his name to Dylan Dylan-Levitt, then he'd be fine.

I know the name but Levitt is someone I know little about. Hopefully he’s a good signing. I am a bit concerned about Fadinger now. Really do not want to lose him. When everyone was gushing over just and Slattery I felt he was more important to the team as a whole. Be gutted if he were to leave.

Thanks Grizzly. By the way, I love your humorous remarks so don’t stop because it brightens up some of the tedium that’s posted on here and I include myself in that.

I think the League Cup / Euro argument is flawed. AJ had to make a call on how to manage his squad, clearly the club decided that the best approach was to give Europe a real shot. League form was solid and on the back of a monumental effort in the home HJK game we then have the Stenny game, for me there is a number of factors in that game. Squad size at the time due to injuries. The artificial pitch meaning the worry about injuries. The upcoming Frieburg game. For me he thought the players he played would do a job and unfortunately it never happened. That’s football sometimes. But I do think it was the right decision to rotate the team, also you have to look at it from the players perspective, they would 100% want to be fit for that Frieburg game, it’s probably the biggest two games of their careers. Also Europe is not something to dismiss, I am convinced with a better draw we would have got through and then it’s a whole new level for the club. The big money is in Europe and the ability to grow as a club is much higher in Europe than in the league cup. The job the manager and team has done this season is first class considering it’s a new spine of a team and the injury crisis we have had. Fair play to AJ, I can’t remember a more memorable start to a season ever.

European football is a joke. Hearts have not won a game in 90 mins, yet like Celtic find themselves in the league setup. This getting beat and dropping into another competition needs to be stopped. Give the smaller teams a chance of getting the big money to help them improve.

Can’t believe we are being written off from European football by some oF our fans. We had Jens for a season and AJ has been here 5 minutes and look how much we have improved, whilst dealing with “best” players leaving and big injury list. We may not win a european contest but we are already more than capable of Competing and what a joy it would be to see us competing in league format euro competition. I’d rather have that than the meaningless league cup but I do understand that people would want us to win a league cup. It would be ideal to do both.

He’s alright, thankfully. https://x.com/forfarathletic/status/2092527099105972534?s=46

The ‘Bois’ care about the ‘Bois’ and their reputation and getting attention on social media and wider publicity. The actual reputation and potential damage their behaviour causes to the club itself is clearly way down their list of priorities in comparison. Otherwise why do they keep defying the clubs requests? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. They are Green Brigade wannabes.

The issue is not with rotation but with the quality of player AJ has in reserve. That's not his fault and he is not going to hide behind that excuse. It takes a lot longer than a few weeks to build the quality of squad depth we require if we are to continue to mix it with the big boys. A run of injuries is another hurdle to overcome. And less easy to predict. On Sunday we were dependent upon Wilson and Ross who did not progress when loaned to lower league clubs and struggled to secure a starting position at Raith or Annan respectively. And they have shown next to nothing since returning to Fir Park. Harsh for some, but realistic. For some reason, misguided loyalty or financial reasons perhaps, their contracts were extended. That error came home to roost yesterday. They were out of their depth......against Stenhousemuir. It affected the whole team. Sadly, the whole experience may well have damaged them. Booth and Mcallister are at a different stage of their careers and may develop given the patience and Loan experience afforded to the two mentioned above. Time enough for them yet. Connolly did just fine and is a decent back up. Although at an early stage, Whyte has clearly benefited and matured from his time at Stenhousemuir. His appearances this season reflect that progress. Whether he turns out to be the next Turnbull or Miller time will tell but early signs are promising. Contrasting his progress with that of Wilson and Ross is very telling. Same path. Different outcome. Different quality. I really don't know what to make of Vogt. Given the other excellent signings our recruitment team have uncovered I cannot believe how little he has contributed so far. Flashes at best. At times he looks lost. At other times terrified. Hopefully we see soon the abilities that encouraged us to sign him. Gutted at losing to Stenhousemuir but not that surprised. The match played out as I feared believing that considerable rotation would be a huge factor. Not sure what other options AJ had. I really don't think he chose one cup over the other but rather decided to protect as many players as he could. Had he given up on the League Cup as many suggest, why then risk the players he did second half? When we qualify for Europe next season we will be in a much stronger position to compete on all fronts. With greater depth and hopefully less injuries. It is actually amazing how well we have started this season.

There is just as much chance of us winning the ECL as there is the league cup 🤣 I appreciate the game is just finished but some of the overreaction here today is a bit mad given the last 12 months we have had!

We’re not going to win the league and we’re not going to go any further in Europe, so the domestic cups are our best hope for tangible success. So to treat it with such disrespect by not fielding the strongest eleven is blindly arrogant and downright stupid. We have a history of treating the cups as if they’re not all that important. Jens did it last season and paid the price, McCall was notorious for it, Kettlewell and Robinson were guilty of it too. And all the while we have to watch on as St.Mirren and St.Johnstone get to lift the league cup trophy in recent years. It’s just not good enough and a slap in the face to the support.

That was absolutely magnificent tonight. They started quite well in terms of possession, and we looked a bit nervous for 15 minutes, but gradually we took control and a very enjoyable evening ensued. We have replaced our outgoing players very sensibly so far, although another signing or two wouldn't go amiss and although there were a few slack passes and some dubious decisions from the ref, at no time did I feel worried that they would put us under any real pressure, This time last year all the short passes in the 18 yard box scared me Sh*tless but now it is just amusing to watch the opposition run sideways like headless chickens. Add in that AJ is an absolute pleasure to listen to, and I think this year could be even better than last year. What a great time to be a 'Well fan.

If someone can point me towards an all round better performance from a Motherwell team i will stand corrected...incredible performance all over the park. Exceptional

That's exactly my thinking, which is why I'm not so quick to dismiss some of the players we have in and around the first team already. I do think we have set a very high bar as fans, where we're looking for Turnbull/Miller/Johnston levels otherwise we shouldn't be looking to retain them. We're going to have fringe players. It's how it works for clubs our size who require a decent-sized squad of players. I'd rather those fringe players were our own youngsters than loans or free signings that aren't all that much better in reality.

I think a lot of our fans are comparing what we look like right now to how Jens team was playing October to March. This time last year we had drawn with Clyde, put questionable performances in against Peterhead and Stenny, beat Morton and drew away to St Mirren with barely a shot on target. I actually think we are a bit further along the journey with this squad than we were this time last year. Our horizons have just lifted a little, so we no longer view things the same way as we did post Kettleball. Nothing wrong with that, we should always be striving for better, but we should maintain some realism at the same time.

Lennon Miller got the full 90 in the cup tonight.

He should have gone to Ross County for the second phase of "the project'

Keep posting MJC. I don't often agree with you but I enjoy reading your posts. Its very rare in life that someone is 100% wrong or 100% right all of the time. We need all shades of opinion on these boards. If anyone is not open to considering other people's opinions then they have a closed mind. Personally, I like to consider other points of view, even opposite ones to mine, to shape my own opinions.

I would read that as impacting the actual penalty kick, which it didn’t. An answer from IFAB is: The penalty kick is retaken only if the encroachment clearly impacted on the kicker or the ball rebounds into play and the encroaching player then plays the ball or challenges an opponent for the ball and prevents the opponents from scoring, attempting to score or creating a goal-scoring opportunity. Gogic clearly impacted Maswanhise collecting the rebound so it’s the second part that is relevant.

I was at the old stadium the night Billy Abercromby received 3 red cards.

In both game until sending offs score would have been alot closer had it not been for two sending offs. Not saying we'd have gone through but until then in both games we were doing OK. Nowt to be down about. The only black spot so far was Stenhousemuir.

Well to be fair, it was proven that Danzaki could influence the result of a match, just not in the way we expected !

Misleading headline only serves to get the usual suspects excited. The action was wrong and there is no excusing that - to label one group of fans again, the lack of understanding of the make up of that section is bizarre. The fine for standing in the aisles wasn’t Block E either. surprised the statement was released given the club have disputed the value claimed.

Im sure the vast majority of the people who sit in the " new seats" in the pod are not looking for any form of compensation as they would still have to sit in the seats. Personally as an ST holder in the pod all i want is the club to acknowledge that they fecked up big time on this issue and get it sorted ASAP then we can all sit comfortably again.

That was one for the ages. A very professional performance against the biggest club in Finland. Ok they are not Barcelona, but this is a team who qualify for Europe most seasons and have reached the group stages only a few years ago. We schooled them. Thought Lowry and Said were superb. Moorman is a step up on Welsh, he is that good and was delighted to see Olly Whyte stroll about the park like a veteran midfielder. Whats brilliant about being a Motherwell fan these days is that this is not just a flash in the pan, this is it now. We are a football club who has grasped the fact you need to modernise and play football the right way and the rewards will come.

Utterly dominant from start to finish. One of the most memorable nights I've had at Fir Park. Enjoy the bragging rights tomorrow Well fans and be sure to get tore into those of the blue side of Glasgow. 😁

Big shout out to the fans,superb,great atmosphere.

Let’s not worry about that tonight, just enjoy a great win. Leave that kind of dampener talk to Tam Cowan.

That was absolutely amazing tonight. I’m not a fan of us playing in Europe but that was the best Euro game I’ve seen at Fir Park. Superb night.