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Heard a rumour that Kettlewell told the players to make sure they lost the game today so that four absolute wankers could have an evening of bitching on an internet forum. After four games without a defeat, they might not have survived another.

If SK had been sacked we would probably be heading to the Championship by now, and the usual fuckwits would still be whinging about the new manager and how they need to be dumped. I'm glad the club seen sense, it's stability we need not a constant churn of managers every other season.

The player sales model debate is an interesting one. For me, it's not a precarious model by any means. And I'd suggest that it demonstrably works. We're in a situation where the club doesn't urgently need outside investment - it would just be preferable. Our model ensures that it's unlikely that the hypothetical gap outlined in the Well Society's consultation earlier in the year, and the hypothetical gap that is the very reason for courting external investment in the first place, will, based on the experience of fan-ownership to date, materialise. It never has under fan-ownership and, even if it did, the Well Society has enough funding to cover that gap as a one-off. The issue would be if something that has yet to happen didn't just happen one year, but two in quick succession. Of course, nothing is impossible in football. Over the same time period that fan-owned Motherwell has remained in the division, reached cup finals, and made Europe, clubs with bigger resources such as Hearts, Hibernian and Dundee United have all been relegated. So it's a duty of the club to at least recognise that hypothetical gap and see if there's a more productive way to eradicate it, other than relying on the Well Society to plug it if it happens once, and then to probably slash our playing budget if it happens again in quick succession (before the Society has built up the safety net again). But in terms of our model, David Turnbull always gets picked out as a seeming "anomaly" but in reality, he's the result of an effective player sales model. Since fan-ownership came into being, we have - purely off the top of my head, so there'll probably be others I miss - sold, for cash, guys like Louis Moult, Cedric Kipre, Kevin van Keen, Sondre Solholm Johansen, James Scott & Ben Heneghan. We could have, had we tied them down on contracts, added Chris Cadden, Allan Campbell, Jake Hastie, Dean Cornelius & Max Johnston to that list. However, the compensation for each still numbers in the hundreds of thousands meaning that, collectively, that's still well over £1m. We will probably sell Theo Bair on for a relatively decent fee in the summer, January, or next summer, while at the same time, Lennon Miller will almost certainly go for a price that you could perhaps list alongside the Turnbull fee. In terms of any investment meaning a change from that model and the ability to keep our best players, I would argue that is incredibly unlikely, if not impossible. The player sales model is only partly because of a financial need, it's also largely because of the club's stature in world football. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it was confirmed at the AGM by the club that no investment offer is transformational, meaning that there would be no change to the model. In fact, you could argue that, if any investor was keen on getting a return on their investment, the player sales model could become even more important in that situation. The only way in which our model ceases to be our model that I can see is if we ended up with an incredibly unlikely Colin & Christine Weir scenario where a diehard Motherwell fan wins the Euromillions and wants to just chuck cash at the club. But even in that situation, where you don't necessarily need to sell players, players would still be sold - because the best guys will always want to move on to play at perceived bigger clubs or in better leagues, regardless of how much cash you're able to throw at them. The player sales model at Fir Park has been in place, and worked successfully, before fan-ownership, has worked under fan-ownership, and will continue to work regardless of whether the club is owned by the fans, an external investor, or a hybrid of the two. Personally, I think it's both a successful model that we should be positive about, because we're good at it, and a model that will be integral to the club whether we like it or not anyway.

Ive never understood this logic. Surely you are interested in how much money the manager has to spend on new players in the close season. As has been already stated the difference of a couple of places could be £125k. That could be the difference in getting a couple of our 1st choice targets, or having to settle for "projects" again. Every game between now and the end of the season is important to us. We have a big rebuild again in the summer. The more money we have for that the better.

When he came on at Dundee SOD did everything that Devine didn't. Suddenly the midfield had an option moving forward out wide other than Gent and Dundee were stretched all across the park. As a result Spittal started to contribute more, Bair had space to run into and Gent was not double marked. And Kettlewell deserves credit for making that change, despite the concern about SOD carrying an injury. His performances throughout the season have more than earned SOD another year.

Well you can take a lecture from me, I have been going to Fir Park for the last 60+ years and have always thought my team would win, whereas you always predict a defeat, doom and gloom and the end of the world, so, put a sock it!!!!!!!!!.

I am not 100% sure exactly what side of the fence the original pie and Bovril poster is landing on but certainly the notion that it is not possible to realise emotions of anger and frustration out with 90 mins of a football match suggests a laziness of thought and a lack of willingness to take responsibility for our own lives. There are other ways to tackle these emotions that do not involve abusing other human beings at a football match. I don't doubt that many of us live our lives under significant stress. The figures for male suicide in particular is staggering and ofcourse football is a fantastic way to escape from the stresses and strains of our daily life. However football cannot be used as an excuse for intimidating and aggressive behaviour. I have watched Motherwell fans over the years hiding behind the claret and amber flag to excuse behaviours that would not be accepted in any other walk of life. What about the players suffering with mental illness? What about the steward that has dragged him/ herself to work after a family bereavement? What about the policeman/ policewoman gripped by anxiety? What about the football manager who's life is falling apart because he/ she is spending all their time trying to keep a job that is always only potentially a few weeks from ending? Do these people stop being human beings from 3pm till 445pm on a Saturday so that the rest of us can vent our frustration? Are we really that selfish?

Aberdeen had five shots on target and Lennon Miller headed the first one off the line defending a corner about 55 minutes in. The second shot on target was the goal from a corner after an hour. Of the three saves he made I can think of two. The shot from outside the box which was straight at him and the shot from the right hand of the box which he saved at the near post. Neither were great saves. Add in his nonsense at the end of the game that almost gave away a goal and it was another joke performance from him.

So, this match thread will be a lot shorter than last weeks, seeing the Four W****rs of The Apocolypse won't have anything to post about 🙂 Well done to the oot his depth manager and his not SPL standard team 🙂

The only thing more eye-stabblingly painful than the annual "writing off new players we have signed" ritual is the annual "writing off players we haven't signed" ritual.

Who do we need to compete with, only Motherwell fans buy Motherwell season tickets, so not increasing the prices is a good thing. A price increase even a modest one might have pushed the price beyond some people's budget. So if there's no need for an increase its happy days and a good move by the club.

I dont know what it is many Motherwell fans cant get their head around about the ground improvements. The £3 million we got from Government was a 20 year interest free loan. It could not be spent on players wages . The stipulation was it must be spent on the fabric of the club. The club would have been mad not to take the loan. At worst the expenditure to finance that loan in any year only ever amounts to £150,000 a year. A very small proportion of any losses we incur in any season. The £3million pound will never ever appear as a loss on the clubs accounts because its not a loss its a loan. There is so much pish written about us wasting money on ground improvements when the reality is we couldn't have got the loan for anything else and it was an absolute bargain on those terms.

Nope. We got peak Kev in his last season. Given his age and his normal goal scoring form of single digit seasons, I never wanted him back. Just bask in his record breaking season and look forward to the next Kev we uncover. I'd be happier if we kept Vale for next season.

Interesting reading here for sure, and as much as it surprises me to be saying this, SteelBoy is on the money with a lot of what he's saying in my opinion. In my experience, people with the financial clout to invest heavily in a football club aren't the type to accept a situation where they have to run their decisions and plans past a majority holding group made up, for the most part, of people who have nowhere near the same level of business experience as they do. If they're putting a considerable amount of money into any venture, they'll expect to make at least that and more back on the other side. That's simply how it is. They're not coming and giving up time and money for nothing. This suggests to me that they'll want majority control and will not be answerable to the Well Society. No serious investor would accept risking their capital in an industry that is difficult to profit from at the best of times without having majority control over how that entity is run and, more importantly, how their money is spent. The Well Society and any votes in the future would simply be seen as inconveniences and roadblocks to the real professionals doing their jobs. Which is maximising profit for the owner on their investment. The most concerning thing for any football fan is that most owners who do not have an emotional attachment to the club they own often see it as just another business venture. Venture is the key word there. Defined as "an undertaking involving chance or risk" or "a speculative business enterprise," which in most cases means that the investor takes a chance, and has an amount of money they're willing to lose before declaring the venture a loss. At that point, they cut it loose and let it sink. It happens to companies every day. It's just that those companies ordinarily don't have fans. I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong on that count and see a unicorn in the form of someone with a ton of cash and no real emotional attachment to the club happy to throw cash into the pot and basically cede overall control and direction to the Well Society. I don't see it happening, though. As has been mentioned already, fan ownership gives us many things, but the most important is that it gives us our club. If the Well Society loses majority control (if it happens), it will no longer be our club—it will be the new owners' club. At that point, we will be just customers. Most of the noise surrounding this issue seems to be paving the way for a change in majority ownership. Again, this is just my opinion based on what I've experienced in the past. Losing majority control of something like a football is a hard sell to fans. The only way to really accomplish that is to convince said fans via various PR means that there's not really any other option moving forward. Vague mentions of financial issues and a drip-style media campaign that gets fans used to the idea of giving up control. Again, I'm not saying this is what is happening, but it looks a lot like it from the outside. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Get Spittal to f**k! Hasn’t played since he signed for Hearts.

Indeed, but a lot of these replies are to posts stating that so-in-so is shite, and the worst ever in a 'Well shirt. Over the course of this season, this accusation has been aimed at, Kelly, S O'D, Bevis, Spittal, Slattery, Paton and our entire strike force, to name but a few. And that doesn't start to cover comments on Kettlewell. As always, in football and in life, nothing is black and white and most of us (I suspect) realise that and, more importantly, accept these failings as part and parcel of being a 'Well fan. The constancy of those statements I, personally, find tiresome and occasionally irk me enough to comment. I'm lucky enough to have seen the likes of Bobby Graham, Willie P, Tommy Coyne, Davie Cooper, to name but a few. I've also seen some total haddies. No one in this team is likely to feature in an all time 'Well XI, I suspect that none of them would feature in an all time worst either. 😀 To summise, chill people.

That probably weren’t even at the game. There’s little more sanctimonious and mouthy than an armchair/firestick Motherwell fan trying to take the moral high ground with match going fans.

Defeat to Aberdeen, 9 page thread. Four one win and guaranteed top league status, four pages. Says a lot about some of our support and forum members. Some people are only happy when they're ragin'. COYW.

A couple to add... Jake Hastie been released by Hartlepool Not quite a former player, but sad to hear of Chris McClure's (Stage name, Christian) passing yesterday. If I recall correctly, he was also a director at Motherwell back in the late '70's / early '80's. I can remember getting his autograph back in the day and on hearing I was a 'Well fan, signed it 'Up the 'Well'. Good guy, will be missed.

Anyone who would have been prepared to pay more can always find other ways of putting money into the club. Starting or upping WS contributions Consider buying 50/50 tickets Etc etc.

she possibly wasn't called Mrs Wellgirl.

Thanks Theo nice to see your backing yourself, self confidence is important.

At the financial levels we operate at re wages etc £750k would fund possibly 4 or 5 players, so it's very decent cash to a club like ours. And the bigger English clubs know this all too well, it's small change to them.

This is it exactly for me. The club has always (since administration etc. anyway) operated under a model where we need to sell a player every other year to keep the books balanced, or sell a Turnbull every three or so. The WS' funds essentially became a way for the club to keep things balanced in leaner times after Les came in, and that's absolutely worked and kept the club afloat. I would argue that's not necessarily true fan ownership, which is why I'm intrigued to see what the new WS board have to offer in terms of growing that to something even more meaningful. However, there's also no reason that the work they're doing can't be done alongside an investor who wants to work with the WS to do that, using their own business experience and skills to supplement what is already there. My line in the sand for all of this has always been 51/49 ownership in favour of the fans. If it goes beyond that (even if it takes years, or is performance based etc.) it's a no from me. Also, there is far, far more to any potential takeover than can be acutely summarised on a forum like this. Like I'm enjoying the debate and discussion but we also need to know a significant amount of what we're reading here and in the press is speculation. e.g. The actual, financial valuation of the club and its assets (rather than the emotional one we as fans put on it) calculated by forensic accountants/finance specialists and then adding in any potential clauses the WS want around ensuring that if they lost majority ownership, there is first refusal on the investor's shares if/when they choose to go or sell up. This is all, of course, dependent on it getting to the stage of there being an actual offer for the club that the Exec Board deems worth considering. Exclusivity of negotiations doesn't guarantee that will happen. One (final, I promise) point; none of the potential investors we have attracted so far are offering to put "transformational" amounts of money into the club. So whatever happens in that regard, I believe the WS will have to continue in some capacity to support the club in leaner times. Like you said @joewarkfanclub we need to be very careful when coming to a decision. Personally, I think there is a model where the WS and any investor(s) could work together (whilst the WS/fans retains majority ownership under whatever structure is negotiated) to build the former and help the latter get a return on their investment, leaving the club in a stronger position than it was. There is nuance to that which will take time to work out, if it is indeed an option, but the devil, as always, will be in the detail.

Do you have an application form in for the Trolls doom and misery club alongside Yodo, MJC and Steelboy, why was yesterday pathetic, we never lost and had a great chance to win with the last kick of the ball? A draw was probably the fair result as Hibs played ok as well. Since December we've been good, playing better picking up results, ending our Rangers hoodoo, to be even in the position of still be able to make the top 6 speaks volumes on how well SK has turned it round from us being 2nd bottom.. so why not give the team some credit for a change, you might enjoy the experience.

The players on their way out should be dropped and the young boys given a chance. Yesterday was pathetic.

I am seriously thinking about turning this topic into some sort of stage show and taking it to the Fringe it’s utterly insane the amount of nonsense that’s getting slung about lol.

Don't bring sound rational thinking into this!!!!!! What I like is Steelboys thought process where he has made his mind up that any potential deal with an outside investor will result in the death of Motherwell FC, which as far as I can see is based upon knowing:- 1- absolutely nothing 2- pure speculation 3- turning that speculation into fact in his head But I do respect the fact that he is just carrying on with it as it makes for great reading 🤣 Steelboy, I get that you clearly love Motherwell and the fan ownership model but lets just actually wait and see what the details of the deal are 👍 COYW!!!!!!

So far and only because of the Turnbull money. Next season you've got both Dundee clubs with owners seemingly happy to pump millions into their playing squads. Hibs with 5m American investment. Kilmarnock with Billy Bowie and his blank chequebook Hearts hoovering up all the better players in our league with 15m sitting in the bank from their foundation and Budge and Co happy to keep putting money in. Ross County with Uncle Roy's blank chequebook. Aberdeen with a rich chairman putting his money where his mouth is (not that its helped this season of course) St Johnstone with a potential American buyer with money to burn by the sounds of it. Even St Mirren have Gilmour putting money in albeit in the form of soft loans. Old Firm take care of themselves. That leaves us and with no form of outside investment unless you class the WS as that. Money doesn't always buy success of course but it makes it a damn sight easier. Do we sit back and hope that the teams with more money than us manage to keep f*****g things up and we keep "punching above our weight" and continue to get lucky with bargain basement buys to stay in the top flight. I'm still of the opinion that the WS retain control of the club but if we want to keep competing at this level in light of whats happening at other clubs we need to look at every option otherwise we might find ourselves in the never ending cycle of trying to avoid the dreaded bottom 2 places every season and the type of football that brings

Given our defence is leakier than Downing Street, I'll focus my comments on those players now. SOD will be 32 in May and should have a few years left in him, but probably not as a marauding RWB for much longer. He's local, so I'm sure he'd accept a new deal if offered, but it's anyone's guess what those terms would/should be. McGinn will be 34 in October and probably has another season at least left at this level, so we may offer him a 1-year deal as he's versatile and reliable, and his experience will help the younger boys. However, I can see another SPL club offering him a 2-year contract with, likely, improved wages, which he would be wise to take. Bevis is a bit of an unknown. He's been here for what feels like a long time, and he's now an international captain, which is incredible for him. This new status will likely have his agent's ears pricked up, meaning he'll be getting touted for a higher wage to other clubs, although this could be something we accept and offer him a new deal anyway. Butcher appears to be finished at this level and shouldn't be offered a new deal. He's an Obika, unfortunately. Blaney is under contract, has found his way into the team lately, and may decide to see out his deal, but that all depends on what conversations Kettlewell has had with him. Casey. Let's hope he continues to improve and learn. His strengths and passion are there for all to see, as well as his weaknesses. He'll get a proper pre-season this year. Elliot. Does he exist? Why was he signed? Gent's loan will end, and he's out of contract at Blackburn, meaning he's likely out of our price range, although I would love to sign him. He's been fantastic and seems to be flourishing. He can even play as an inside forward. Monty is already back at Celtic, recovering from an injury, although we may see him come off the bench for us in May. Good luck to the lad, whatever happens, as his cameo was impressive. Devine. Back to Rangers. He would benefit from going out on loan to a lower league for a spell. Wilson. He'll return to us from Beith, and his contract expires in May. I'm not sure what will happen next. I've no clue about the other young lads and won't comment.

Technique wise I'd agree, but I think Davor coming into the team has really allowed Miller and Spittal to play a bit more because he screens the defence far better than the three of them do together. He doesn't do anything that dazzles but he does a really good job of the stuff that's underappreciated.

I think we all need to take a deep breath. It doesnt matter how many games someone does or doesnt go to or how many years they have supported the team. What matters is our support of Motherwell FC. If you give an opinion, be prepared to debate it and back it up. Because sure as shit someone will disagree. Try not to make it personal, or take it personal (hard sometimes I know) we are after all, all on the same side. Some folk are always negative, some folk are always positive. Thats life. Meantime, Feed The Bair.........

I won't. They can roll up their plastic pitch and take a hike. Zero entertainment ever on offer at their ground against any team.

It's more than breathing space. Nine ahead of St J with three to play and a 22 goal GD advantage. We're safe.

100% It's a chance for usually grown adult men to act in a manner they never would be allowed to outside a stadium. I think it's more a reflection on them than anything else.

Seriously ya nutter! Bevis in goals is the obvious choice, tall, will command the box, only needs to take by kicks so no dribbling and legally allowed to handle the ball. Move Kelly to midfield to show off more of his nifty foot work prowess. Job done! Who the feck needs coaching badges? Any clown can do this job.

Yes, thats certainly true. Because of his background, he does know a lot more about football in general than fans who haven't been involved in professional football. He also knows more than virtually all the fans, about the playing side of the club. However, these forums / fora are all about debate; hopefully considered reasonable discussion. Surely its not unreasonable to question the manager's decisions at times or are we going to shut that down? We cannot afford to suppress criticism simply because someone knows more than we do. I was told by a former teacher to treat anything I was told by salesmen, lawyers, politicians and teachers with a questioning attitude. They might have silver tongues but they're not always right. Constant criticsm for the sake of it is wrong but so is unquestioning support. Its a fine line to tread.

Easily done with corrupt officials in your corner for 2 of those games

Completely agree Dave. Kelly is a good shot stopper but the other parts of his game are limited, especially commanding his box and dealing with crosses. I'm sure we could recruit an equally talented shot stopper who is a better all round keeper than Kelly on the same or even less money.

No really. I just made up a more inspiring rumour to cheer Steelboy up. I mean, surely the Scougall one's pish too - a guy approaching 32 who's spent the last 4 years at Alloa. The only possible way that would make any sense would be if we get relegated. Are these names coming from any reliable source, or just some randoms online?

Probably something to do with his 204 career goals vs Theo's 21.

Ominous. I'll no sleep tonight.

AHHHHH HAAAAAAAAAAAA

My education was also very much delivered in the 1975 Airdrie cup semi. I still have the scarf I bought for that game in case I ever forget.

You can't distill our lack of points down to one incident in one game. We've given away many goals that have cost us points and missed many chances that would have potentially earned us points over the course of the season. Just like every other team. That's why the league table is a good reflection of form over the season.

Now either O'Donnell has slept with someone close to you or he owes you money. There's been several players this season made mistakes, but they don't seem to get the Steelboy yir shite patter. As for yir kicking into the middle of the park comment, I suppose you would have brought it down in the swirling wind and played an inch perfect pass to a forward, Though not!!!!

The rain is on, maybe postpone this one till Wednesday?

Interesting fact for football fans. Most people know that The Proclaimers are massive Hibs fans and that their fantastic song Sunshine On Leith is sung at games. But something a lot of you do not realise is that many years ago , brothers Craig and Charlie both worked as groundsmen for the club. They got the sack after players complained that the grass was too long and it ruined their passing game. The brothers blamed this on DIY store B and Q They went to Bathgate no mower, Linwood no mower, Irvine no mower, Lochaber no mower, Sutherland no mower, Lewis no mower, Skye no mower..........

Again agree. I want Motherwell to be in the position where if other clubs come knocking for our best players - we can say no. I also completely get that there's also a balancing act at times as well - do you sell for a good sum when you can or let talent go for very little - as happened with Max Johnson. Elsewhere on the boards folk were talking about the prospect of clubs coming in for Theo Bair - and he's only scored 13 goals I think. That's not me trying to talk him down. It just seems as if every time a player is either very talented or hits form - we resign ourselves to losing them. Also. It would be good to have a settled team - and not face the prospect of a rebuild every other season. Fan ownership is a great thing - but I really do think we need a cash injection from elsewhere

Its everything else he may bring with his team of people and contacts. He will have far superior media execs, sponsor opportunities etc etc which can only be a good thing as well as putting us in the window. The only person ive seen touting the 1.5mil idea is Steelboy who im actually thinking is just a troll looking for reactions as he seems unhinged at any idea of Motherwell trying something a little different. I get the feeling he sits in a rage when we win 😜