FirParkCornerExile
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Posts posted by FirParkCornerExile
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9 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:
No, it doesn't. Our problem defensively this season has been losing a relatively small number of goals per game, but in almost every game. In previous years we had more clean sheets, but we took a fair few doings along the way too.
Our goal difference is the best outside the top 4 and only 4 teams have lost fewer games. God knows what all those stats tell us, other than we were as close to having a pretty good season as we were a disastrous one.
"Our problem defensively this season has been losing a relatively small number of goals per game, but in almost every game" ... so does that not suggest we need to concede less goals thus getting more points from games that we narrowly lost or drew. I think it does. Sure you can argue if we score more the net improvement could be the same. However I think that's a seriously harder ask than cutting out some of the comedy gold goals we gave away.
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9 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:
We've currently lost 53 goals, the same number we lost last season. In the last 10 years we've conceded fewer goals on only 2 occasions. If we manage to score 3 goals in the remaining games we'll match last season's total, which was the highest return for more than a decade.
So the issue is neither the leakiest defence we've had nor a powderpuff attack. We've become harder to beat at exactly the same time we've found it harder to win. Doesn't necessarily make for great excitement, but it's not the worst we've ever suffered either.
You have a point but if we want to improve we need to look at being better defensively. The fact the number of goal we lose has been consistent doesnt make it good.
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46 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:
If, like me these days, you just go to home matches you'll have got 5 wins in 18 matches this season. That's not good enough. Or if you like 75 quid a win on your season ticket! More if you are in the posh stand! 🤣
And 2 of those wins were against a team that have been hopeless all season and must have one of the lowest points tallies in the modern era.
If you take them away you get 3 wins from 16. Ain't great is it?
We've scored goals but our defensive record is absolutely appalling.
We've managed 3 clean sheets in the league all season. 1 at Fir Park and 2 away. I mean even Livingston managed more than 50% more clean sheets than us (7). That's got to be some kind of unwanted club record surely? 3 clean sheets in a season.....
I supported the manager through the tough period because I want to look at things more long term than a period within a season but there is definitely a lot of scope for improvement.
I'd keep Kettlewell at the helm but there are areas where we need to show considerable improvement next season.
Completely agree, the current squad will occasionally raise their game but will invariably disappoint , particularly the defence and the Goalkeeper. The defence needs a complete revamp. Other than keeping McGinn, Gent I'm not fussed about any of the rest. Halliday has shown bugger all that should tempt us to make his move permanent. Oli Shae needs moved out , ditto Barry McGuire. Id like to see Bair and Moses play up front next year. However if he secures Vale again I think Bair and Vale will be our front pairing. I sincerely hope we dont try and sign KVV if we lose Vale. I think Kettlewell has a big job ahead but frankly I wouldn't be looking to replace him. He deserves a chance to improve things but if we have another season like this and totally ineffective in the cups Id make the next season his last.
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1 hour ago, dennyc said:
Good point. If others had done their job as well as he did his, then he may well have had zero saves to make. Like quite a few games this season.
Aberdeen were hardly world beaters and we let them off the hook. Bar a 25 minute spell in the second half we were at least their equal. Even then we were inches away from a headed equaliser from Moses late on as Aberdeen were in panic mode..
Aberdeen were the same pile of shite they've been in every one of the games that they've taken 10 points off us. Losing 10 points to them tells you more about us than them.
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38 minutes ago, weeyin said:
The salary cap idea sounds more like a reaction the new Football Regulator that has been introduced. Most EPL clubs are spewing money and running at a loss thanks to massive wage bills. Not to mention all the issues many are facing with breaches of the Financial Fair Play rules.
I doubt it's workable, but something needs to be done.
Just look at the data posted here. For example, only 3 clubs making a pre-tax profit
and the eye watering debt
thank fuck I dont pay Sky a penny.
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1 hour ago, StAndrew7 said:
I would absolutely be looking to retain McGinn; from what I've heard there's a deal there for him to stay and he's good with it, but wants to make sure we're staying in Premiership first.
I'd also be keen to retain SODs, particularly if Kettlewell wants to keep the back three; I think he's a really good option as a right side wide centre back. I think his pace has slowed (he's never been the quickest, I'll admit) but he is still a capable and relatively reliable option/pro to have around.
If it's a toss of a coin between Bevis and SODs, in our current system I'd probably want to keep Bevis and just tell him to get the ball to fuck whenever it comes near him to minimise his brainfarts. I can see us keeping SODs and losing Bevis, though.
It's going to have a very busy summer, we essentially need to replace the entire spine of our team, including finding some creativity with Spittal going and Slattery's future also unclear.
We're looking at a rough requirement for what, 2 goalkeepers, 4 defenders (2x CB, 2x WB), 3 midfielders, 2 or 3 forwards (striker, winger(s))? Now, that's assuming none of the current crop of young players break into the first team. I'm expecting at least one or two across those positions to do so.
Mugabi can go anytime, hasnt progressed one bit in his time with us. Still makes the same basic mistake he always did and too regularly as all players make mistakes. .
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1 minute ago, wellgirl said:
Yeah. Go into your account settings and you can put people on ignore.
Cheers im gonna have a field day.
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Just now, wellgirl said:
There's an ignore button.
Is there I need to find it.
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1 minute ago, joewarkfanclub said:
Not sure Ive seen anyone telling another poster to shut up in respect of the investment stuff or indeed opinions of players / the manager.
The ones who tend to be called out are those who are negative about absolutely everything regardless of context.
Ive had some lively debates with your good self and others at times over opinions. But as you yourself said previously, thats what this place is about.
I think we can both agree though that we were both wrong about Bair. But he is better than "semi-pro" level! 😉
There are a number of thoroughly dislikeable folk on here , who cannot debate with anyone with resorting to abuse and insults because you may disagree with them. I just make it clear to these types I will not discuss anything with them and move on. I don't know if there is a block facility of this site but if not it could be worth getting..
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Just now, wellgirl said:
I think it's a bit different re Turnbull and Lennon given the fee Turnbull was sold for and what Lennon will probably go for. And to be fair right now it's just speculation re Theo moving on
The fee is immaterial. Neither Turnbull or Lennon needed to sign extended contracts but did so to make sure the club got a payment for their investment. They knew they were / are going and could have left for nothing but chose to help the club . As I said they are exceptions. Whatever Bair does it is extremely unlikely if he knows he's a wanted man and likely to be leaving that he'd sign an extended contract to ensure Motherwell were taken care of. He, like the vast majority, will when the time comes piss off without so much as a backward glance to the club. Football is full of guys like Chris Cadden..
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22 hours ago, Casagolda said:
The £3m "loss" is not an ongoing situation.
Money was given during Covid as an interest free loan and the club chose to spend some of that money on changes to the park and hunter stand. That is a one time expense. That was not related to any safety certificate. The main stand has had some issues in the past that needed addressing but i believe that is now sorted and not a large on going cost.
So your point about sustainability is completely wide of the mark.
I dont know what it is many Motherwell fans cant get their head around about the ground improvements. The £3 million we got from Government was a 20 year interest free loan. It could not be spent on players wages . The stipulation was it must be spent on the fabric of the club. The club would have been mad not to take the loan. At worst the expenditure to finance that loan in any year only ever amounts to £150,000 a year. A very small proportion of any losses we incur in any season. The £3million pound will never ever appear as a loss on the clubs accounts because its not a loss its a loan. There is so much pish written about us wasting money on ground improvements when the reality is we couldn't have got the loan for anything else and it was an absolute bargain on those terms.
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1 hour ago, stv said:
He owes us for giving him the chance when others, including most on here were very adamant that he was total shite. Let go by St Johnstone doesn't look good on any strikers CV . Scoring only 1 goal, i think, last season not many would have given him that chance. I feel he will have this in mind when making any decision. Manager was absolutley right about him. Sell or keep him its up to SK.
he doesn't owe us anything, we may think he does but the reality is he looks after himself and no one else. Guys like Turnbull and Lennon are the exception to the rule and they tried to look after themselves and the club.
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5 hours ago, Well Well said:
Can we rely on the sell a player model forever without investment?. Personally I don't think so. If anything we have been extremely lucky to have a few players coming through the academy that we can sell off, unfortunately we are seeing recently a few signing for bigger clubs before we can cash in on them.
I don't think the Well society can sustain the club at its current level and probably not if we were in a league lower with the lack of premier league gates and revenue.
I honestly don't know what the answer is however I don't think we can continue the way we are we can't go into every season with our fingers x that we don't get relegated and a player plays well enough to sell on.
Finances are yo-yoing no matter how you try to spin them.
Thats it completely the Well society can sustain the club, of that I have no doubt, but the level at which they sustain it must drop in the next 5/10 years if they cannot grow our income streams in a sustainable manner. Sure we could be lucky and sell a few players in that time and maybe a couple of good cup runs but they are by no means guaranteed. So our future is a bit of a lottery under the current model.
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5 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:
There is a huge difference between increasing revenue streams and taking on outside investment.
The club will have to increase its revenue streams regardless of whether it stays under fan ownership or sells its majority shareholding to a private investor.
If we sell, the initial money will be welcome, but it doesnt seem like its going to be transformational, and its benefit could be short lived.
We still need to live within our means, otherwise we end up owing money to the investor like Dundee, Dundee United or any of the other clubs going down this route.
Thats fine as long as the investor is happy with that situation. The minute they are not you are back in a "John Boyle" situation or worse.
I look at the potential investment more like a Dragons Den situation, where the worth to the club could be through the particular skillset and expertise that Bamack could bring, rather than how deep his pockets are, which really is irelevant.
Its worth noting also, that we have just appointed a new CEO. Id be interested to hear what his ideas are about increasing revenue streams alongside the Society.
It could be that a mixed model with Society/Club/Barmack working together is the way forward.
you are quite correct their is a big difference but as much as potential investors need to prove their case , so do the Well Society , they too need to tell the fans how they will grow sustainable Revenue streams and have coherent business plans to back it up. They do that and no bugger will look twice at outside investors.
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8 hours ago, David said:
It's not precarious if the club is run correctly.
We budget for finishing 10th and a few cup games, and anything else above & beyond that goes into the "rainy day" fund. Be it player sales, extended cup runs, top six finishes, whatever.
For example, we're sitting 8th at the moment, and let's say that finishing in 8th means getting £1.375 million instead of the £1.250 million the team finishing 10th gets.
That's an extra hundred grand or so that we didn't account for, so it's a little bonus.
that ignores the fact , irrespective of league position nearly every year where we've not had a good cup run , semis at least, or transfer fees, the club incurs losses. Finishing in the top 4 also costs money because there are far more win bonuses to be paid. If new money is not forth coming or we don't get decent transfer fees each year the cost / budget to finish tenth a few cup games gets more expensive each year because operating costs and salary expectations increase each year. That budget for tenth and a few cup games also excludes the cost of punting a manager if we hit dire straights. I've said before the fan model is perfectly workable but without new money the level at which the club operates year on year gets harder to sustain when variable income streams do not materialise. Its basic economics. If revenue streams don't increase and costs do something has to give. Sure its not a worry as long as we get cup run money and transfer fees none of which are any way guaranteed. People can disagree but to me we do operate a bit on a a wing and a hope in terms of expected income.
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6 hours ago, StAndrew7 said:
He did.
He's here until the summer or 2026, most likely to be sold next January or the summer of 2025 I would imagine.
is lennon millers contract extension not up in summer 2025, if so he will go this summer.
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26 minutes ago, wunderwell said:
Two cup finals and the sale of David Turnbull to thank.
Neither of those events look likely soon unless they can convince Lennon to sign an extended contract.Exactly its a precarious operating model. We need more regular definite funds not funds that are rely on the exception rather than the rule. The WS need to tell us how they will achieve that.
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2 hours ago, wellgirl said:
As other people have said - where are the Well society going to find other money from? Unless there are cash reserves somewhere. I know it's possible that they could ask for extra donations from members. My whole issue with fan ownership is that there simply aren't enough members to make it work. No more than that - and I'm a member.
Fan ownership can completely work but without increased subscriptions the level at which we operate will fall over the years ahead. Rattling buckets isnt the answer. However if the Well Society doesnt raise significantly more money over the coming years what money we do raise will permit us to do less. If income remains static or shows minimal improvement and costs rise the level at which we operate must eventually suffer, its not rocket science. So its up the the Well Society to let us see their fund projections and business plan and what its expected to raise over the next 5 years and convince us they are up to the challenge as well as answering the question if its so straightforward why have they not made those moves before now..
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2 hours ago, wellgirl said:
As other people have said - where are the Well society going to find other money from? Unless there are cash reserves somewhere. I know it's possible that they could ask for extra donations from members. My whole issue with fan ownership is that there simply aren't enough members to make it work. No more than that - and I'm a member.
Buy bigger buckets for collections 😉
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2 hours ago, wellfan said:
Maybe, but why should it have taken until now for the Society to up its game? Why wasn't the Society actively examining and proposing meaningful ways to increase the membership and raise further inward investment? Why has it taken until now for the Society to confirm that 3800 members don't correlate with 3800 active monthly direct debits? Has the Society been in cruise control for many years, resting on its laurels until it felt a threat from the Club? Both the Society and Club are within their rights to propose anything concerning ownership and inward investment, and perhaps it's just that the latter got its finger out first. I am a monthly paying Society member and have been for a long time, but there are so many other unanswered questions and points of speculation to be had from both sides, which has me questioning what's going on behind the scenes. This whole thread is becoming a tit-for-tat nonsense. Keep it up, everyone.
100% correct why should fans have faith in promises made that could have been delivered over the last 5 or 6 years. I am not convinced by the American interest either but ill wait until I see actual facts rather than what someone down the pub thinks.
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19 minutes ago, robsterwood said:
Shit season. Biereth going was a kick in the baws. If he had stayed we would have made top 6. But great Bair done so well. And Gent and Vale. If we keep all 3 plus miller it looks like next season will be better. Prefer we don't re sign Kelly and get commanding goalie. Not bothered about losing Spittal too. Think he won't replicate that form and jambos don't give much time. I think Danda will be Thier main creative player.
Lennon Miller wont be with us next season, firstly we cant afford to let his contract run down to the end of 2025. Hes not going to sign another extension. I get the impression the one he did sign was similar to Turnbull to ensure we got some money for our investment. Id expect the club to cash in in the summer.
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Just now, wellgirl said:
I think Bevis can be very hit and miss. When he's on form he's great. I think SOD and Kelly will go. I thought Kelly was v decent today
He was but if he is , as reported the highest earner at the club , he can be replaced with less financial outlay for the same kind of return . Not a patch on the keeper he was two seasons ago..
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We were utter shite start to finish. Hibs deserved to win. That said they get a small amount of credit for fighting spirit. However for the umpteenth time this season that displays shows why a big clear out in the summer is required. That squad will always shoot ourselves in the foot. The point Dundee got makes Oli Shaws miss utterly irrelevant so no point dwelling on it, just get him to fuck in the summer along with a few others. Tear up Halliday's agreement tomorrow. Lennon Miller was awful but he young he's entitled to an odd off game and I suspect he will be away in the Summer anyway. Kelly redeemed himself from last week but this team is still basically cack.
** and being a parochial football fan if the achievement is beyond my own team the next best thing is fucking up someone elses team
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The result does paper over some cracks but that is a discussion for another day and the summer contract discussions. Incredible spirit and comeback. Defending of a level that would shame a pub team and we've been doing it all season but a huge 3 points and just a game and result to be enjoyed at this minute. If we'd won that game 6-2 it would not have flattered us. Even when we were utter shite in the first half Dundee didn't test Kelly that much. Our two gifts should have had them over the line but thankfully the team cancelled out the piss poor defending.
Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread
in Club Chat
Posted
Fair point but I still believe there is a lot of room for improvement in the defence. Some of our defending this year has been brutal and teams didn't need to work hard to get goals off us. The amout of goals we lost from corners and set pieces was frankly laughable at times. Of course others are free to feel differently just how I see it.