star sail

I think the disappointment comes largely from the realisation that in the grand scheme of things nothing has fundamentally changed. Rangers have been abject failures in Europe this season They have had several attempts at qualifying for the group stage in European competition against really average European sides and have fallen short every time. We on the other hand won in two ties and lost to a very good German side. It is natural to think that there may have been a shift in momentum, that our gains of the last year have significantly closed the gap to Rangers in particular. To see a display and result like yesterday that mirrors so many Ibrox performances of the past is a real kick in the teeth and a significant reality check. The harsh reality is that these bang average European sides that we have never heard of are still significantly better than us and the gap in quality is still massive. This is not to criticise the progress our club has made in the last year. It simply highlights the enormity of the task to transform our small club into a European standard team than can consistently perform against clubs with bigger resources than our own. I think yesterday brought us all down to earth with a bit of a thump. I hope it does not completely derail the early season positivity.

It is far too early to judge Vogt. Higdon is the obvious example but I could name two more at least who had very uninspiring debuts butwent on to do well with us. Lukas Jutkiewitz ( excuse spelling) Debuted at Aberdeen under Gannon. He was slow looked unfit, the ball kept bouncing off him. Remember how he turned out? Louis Moult Debut at Inverness under Baraclough and looked completely lost. Bullied off the ball, lacking a physical presence. H just looked out his depth. The other debut striker that day impressed more. Was it Wesley Fletcher ? Remember how the two of them turned out?

The thing that always gets me about this type of result is that a team of semi pros can beat a team of full time pros under any circumstances. Whether it be pre season friendlies, cup games, euro ties, there should be an unassailable gulf in class between the sides yet so often there is not. Our second 11 should be better than Stenhousemuir. Squad rotation should be a viable option. As AJ said himself we are talking about elite sport, elite athletes. To put that into some context, in athletics, would an excellent club runner training 10+ hours a week have a chance of beating full time athlete Josh Kerr in the 1500m? Never in a million years. In football you have 11 full time athletes against 11 (in the case of Stenhousemuir) semi professionals mixing other commitments with their football preparation. The advantage to Motherwell should be multiplied by a factor of 11. It should be a very unfair advantage. The truth is that Stenhousemuir have more chance of beating us that we do of beating Frieburg. The gap between two pro teams is often bigger than the gap between pro and semi pro. I get that every so often freak results happen but that performance today is a concern.

I must admit that I have completely changed my view on AJ's media presence. I thought his first couple of interviews and his introductory speech to the players was a little underwhelming but he is completely owning his media interviews now. A mixture of intelligence, humour, approachability but at the same time clear in his own thoughts and beliefs. In a more subtle way, like JBA he does not suffer fools gladly. Overall his first few months have been hugely impressive under demanding circumstances. It is so refreshing not to have to listen to the ' these European games come too early ' rhetoric of Scottish managers past. Our wee club appears to have batted one out the park once again on managerial appointments. As Well fans it should give us great pride that we have shown that there is an alternative to the traditional Scottish football way. I think that the press/ media are responding favourably too. The BBC write up on Thursday nights game showed real affection for what is happening at Firpark. Happy days.

Difficult tie. Finished 7th in the German top division last season. Seems particularly tough when you consider that Rangers could be playing Larne for Europa League qualification. 3rd place would have been potentially massive last season in helping negotiate these early rounds.

It is only because it is more obvious. The consequences of their mistakes are generally more terminal. We saw a few examples of that last year with goalkeeping mistakes in games against Celtic in particular. It is the challenge that comes with the GK's position on the field. I think people are aware of the added risk associated with goalkeeper mistakes and I don't think the criticism is greater as a result. Reasonable people can see the increased jeopardy. On the highlights there were two instances of him missing crosses. Against better opposition who have the composure to pick a spot ( in European football for example) you would often lose two goals from those situations. We may have been punished on another day, we may not. You certainly can't say we would not have been. I don't think pointing this out equates to goalkeepers getting more criticism than outfield players. It is simply a comment on two important moments in the game. Unfortunately for goalkeepers, mistakes carry a higher risk. It's just a reality of the game . Outfield players get plenty of criticism on here for their mistakes ( but then you know that 😉).

Couple of slightly negative comments looking at the highlights. Firstly, I don't think that is a penalty for Hibs. Saw 50/50's like that all the time in the WC that were waved away ( McGinn included). Boyle played for the penalty and got it. Secondly, Paulsen coming for two crosses and dropping both. I like the idea of him coming for those balls (Dijkstra style) but you have to get them. On another day we would have been punished both times. It will be interesting to see if he perseveres with this. Two small negatives that in the end did not matter. Loving Lowry's contribution for the 2 Nd goal. I am going to stick with the Stephen Hughes analogy with him for now, (ex Rangers bad boy come good) and it could have been a McGhee team Version 1 goal we were watching yesterday. If Lowry has the same impact that SH had in McGhee's free flowing Motherwell team then we have a success on our hands.

Great result and it buys the manager and squad time to settle further. Fantastic to see Said on the score sheet. Hopefully it turns him into a goal machine. I did not see the game. What was the style of play like? Similar to last year or very different?

I am still feeling a little hungover from the end of last season. The new season has come around very quickly and I have a sense that normal service may resume with regard to the OF dominating both on and off the park particularly now that two Scottish media darlings in McIness and O Neil are at the helm of the respective teams. Scottish VAR already seems to have learned absolutely nothing from the end of last season already going against the wider world football directive to only get involved with very clear and obvious errors. It would be nice to see Hearts, Falkirk and particularly ourselves carry on the momentum from last season but squad overhauls in the summer prove how difficult that will be. Aberdeen beating Hearts yesterday gives maybe the first sense that the old school Scottish football establishment are starting to reassert themselves. We were miles ahead of Hibs in the last game of last season and we finished on a genuine high despite maybe some lingering regret that it could have been even better but I get a sense that the reset button has been pressed and the league may fall back into a more predictable pattern. It would be a real shot in the arm for the season ahead of we were to dominate Hibs today like we did in May but I think it will be a much tougher test. I would take a draw right now to maintain a positive start to the season going into a very difficult Euro tie next week.

Had a look just now and that is not what I see. Admittedly the podcast concerning Motherwell and Hibs progressing is there on the second row but the top article regards how many points are needed to win the league and is Celtic, Rangers, Hearts centred. The main sports page has Commonwealth games news (as it should) and then is dominated but OF stories. The gossip page comes next which every day is almost exclusively Rangers and Celtic content. It contains the Shankland bombshell again. The magnitude of that hit me just as hard second time to be fair. The next story is the full blown Shankland exclusive. After that a Celtic story. The article on the Motherwell game is 7 or 8 down and takes a bit of finding. Remember this is on the day the game is being played. Admittedly this is better than nothing but look over days and the sports pages are 80%-90% Old Firm centred. Most of the them are non stories. The Motherwell game is a real story. A game being played today with a Scottish teams best chance of progressing in Europe at this stage. It should be headline news. If we are happy with what we get, great but factually speaking there is not an even spread of non OF stories on the BBC.

Went on the BBC Sport website to get a match preview for tomorrow's European game to be welcomed with the headline news that Lawrence Shankland is to be the new Rangers Captain!!!! Who needs football matches when you have this kind of breaking news gold dust coming out of Ibrox.

I wonder if Lowry could be the next Stephen Hughes. Hughes was older when he arrived at Motherwell I think but there are similarities in other ways between the players. ie Rangers player that had lost his way a little for a variety of reasons but plenty of ability. Hughes was my favourite player in Mark McGhee's first free flowing spell at Motherwell. The Quarter back analogy applied really well to him. Everything passed through him and he just kept things ticking along in that team. With the exception of last season that was the best footballing side I remember in my time watching Motherwell and SH played a big part in that.

Fadinger. Class act. He and Priestman were head shoulders above the rest.

I was unsure what to expect tonight but in the end I thought there was an obvious difference in ability between the teams. That's not to say they did not give us some nervy moments. I thought Fadinger was a class apart tonight. Preistman was excellent and will provide must needed continuity from last season. Said was characteristically frustrating. His end product is awful at times.. I had the fear about Vogt given the slating he got last week but looks like there is a player there after all. I think 3-0 would have made the perfect night but as it is the tie is still very much alive. Hibs showed what can happen so altogether a very satisfying evening.

I can relate in some way to what you say. It is not a personal embarrassment for us as supporters or individuals because we have no input into the final outcome but I can understand why more generally the result could be seen as an embarrassment. Hearts 4-0 defeat last night is embarrassing for Scottish football generally. Hearts were a dodgy penalty decision away from being champions of Scotland last term. Scotland's display in the WC was embarrassing for us collectively as a nation. Motherwell have lost to part time European teams in the past. I think for the club and for the full time players involved in these games, it is embarrassing. Motherwell were a breath of fresh air last year and I would love to think that JBA and the team showed that there is another way and that they can compete in European football. It would be a real shame if we were to fall at the first hurdle. Having said that, HB are a full time outfit (I think). It will be a very tough game tomorrow.

The independent report into the OF pitch invasion is pretty damning for the SFA. It basically says that they are not using their powers consistently and I think there is an implication that they are far too lenient on the Old Firm in particular. In this particular situation, the two tier policing of Motherwell and Derek McIness could not be more blatant. McInnes comments were said in anger on live television in the immediate aftermath of a highly volatile ending to the match at FP. His comments were heard by millions. They were inflammatory and clearly called into question the integrity of the officials. Watt posts on social media to a considerably smaller audience, a comment that may question the competence of the decision but not the integrity of it and his punishment is worse. You cannot get a more direct and obvious comparison. The SFA have had time to consider this response and will know themselves the discrepancies in this decision making so you have to come to the conclusion that they simply don't care.

After Stjarnan and Sligo in particular, I will never take us to be strong favourites in a Euro tie ever again. I think because they are match fit and because we have a fairly makeshift starting 11 at the moment this is a 50/50 game.

So far neither Just or Watt have gone to the OF. It really must be a copy and paste that goes on the front of every Scottish media transfer story. I suspect that JT will not be Glasgow bound either. I am still going £10 mill for Just. Smashed sounds like £5 mill + £5 mill to me.

I read Weeyin make a comment on this thread or possibly one of the other threads that he does not form an opinion on the team until September and I understand the reasoning behind this but unfortunately in modern football September is a long way away. Russell Martin at Rangers had effectively lost his job by then last season. He had certainly lost a dressing room and support. Likewise Alexander was out of a job by the end of July after the Sligo fiasco. I think one of Askou's qualities was that his messaging was very clear and concise from the beginning. The plan was very clear. This season does not have that vibe about it although I don't think that is necessarily Johansson's fault. He has a significant rebuild on his hands. Askou had the luxury of easing himself in with the League Cup group stage. If we remember those first few games, would last year's team have made it past the first round of a European tie against a half decent side? There is no guarantee. I always felt that Stuart McCall never recovered from losing to Starnaan. I really worry that if Motherwell go out to HB, the knock on effect could be significant. I would like to think that as a support we will give AJ the first round of fixtures to stamp his mark but modern life does not really lend itself to that kind of patience.

Deffo £10 mill!!!!

Agreed. It has been nice to see the refs in the WC trying to make the game flow as much as possible. It has highlighted just how pedantic the Scottish referees are. It has been quite notably just how much of a difference there is been the top referees in the World and their Scottish peers.

I would agree that Slattery deserved it if similar incidents were getting the same punishment. What is striking about the Slattery incident is that is was a punishment in isolation of other similar incidents. You can see the levels of simulation in the World Cup. As far as I am aware not one player has received a ban for it. I understand different governing body, different referees but it is the same sport and in that context Slattery's punishment was excessive.

You get the sense that Motherwell have got under the skin of the SFA last season. What should have been a real positive for the game in Scotland with one of the smaller teams genuinely competing (and often outplaying) with the 4 big city clubs now has more of a sense of reprisal than celebration about it. Is it possible that the authorities felt genuinely threatened by what Motherwell were trying to do? It seems far fetched in the extreme to think that is possible and yet for the authorities to come down on Motherwell not once but twice with punishments that don't really fit the crime seems more than just a coincidence. I can see no positive motive in actively targeting Motherwell in this way and yet as fans of the club and for the club itself there is a palpable sense that we have indeed been targeted. I have found myself drifting away from football in recent times largely because of the governance of the game both nationally and globally ( look at FIFA in the WC). Motherwell were pulling me back in last year. They were a breath of fresh air and yet the powers that be seem determined to drain the life out of any flicker of hope that things can be better. There is an inconsistency about the SFA response to many of these matters. When there is so much to fix in the game in this country (Old Firm pitch invasions being one) it seems a little like booking someone for parking over two carparking spaces whilst a riot is kicking off all around. It's all a bit weird.

It is easy to look back with hindsight but I do remember thinking when watching the celebrations at Hibs that we were celebrating with a team that was about to disintegrate completely. I was confident at that point that JBA was gone and being critical of his last few months with us, I think he was trying to convince us of a dream that he did not believe in himself. If you listen to his tone in his last dressing room address it is fairly obvious that he knew the team was going to look very different by the time the new season came around. The legacy for Askou is the change in style and change in expectations at the club. The problem for Motherwell is that they are swimming against the tide and it is going to take some very talented people to ensure that legacy can be built upon. We could be looking at losing Ward, Just, Watt, TJ and Longelo. We have already lost Slattery. In anyone's book, if that happens we are effectively building a squad from the ground again. Askou did a fantastic job for the club but ultimately he was selling a dream that he was not prepared to see through himself so I can understand MJC's nervousness at this moment in time. There is absolutely no doubt that Askou's time at the club has been a significant net gain but it may not feel that way if next season sees a drop off from last seasons very high standards.

I think you definitely know more about the metrics than I do. It is interesting to read. Thanks. All I can tell you is if you lined up Just, Raskin, Engels and Bowie and asked me to pick one for this coming season at Motherwell, I would pick Just.