Big Stall Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 THis is not about the future of Motherwell - it's about THE FAIR PUNISHMENT OF RANGERS Not for administration - but for the numerous other entries on the charge sheet. Grow a set man! Your like a dog in heat, you keep getting way ahead of yourself! Rangers are not getting punished for all the dodgy dealings they were getting up to. Rangers have been banjoyed out the league because they were liquidated, plain and simple. The same punishment that would befall any other club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 A bit pedantic but aye ye got me - just liquidation PAYE and NIC (undisputed) Lee Wallace transfer(undisputed) Jelavic transfer (undisputed) Vladimir Weiss unpaid loan fee(undisputed) Kyle Bartley unpaid loan fee(undisputed) Billy Dodds dual contract (admitted on air) Campbell Ogilvie EBT (admitted to media) Apellate Tribunal (still to re-sit) Varios disrepute fines (still to be paid) And loads more Top 20 hits That's all still to come so i suppose i was racing ahead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Your like a dog in heat, you keep getting way ahead of yourself! Rangers are not getting punished for all the dodgy dealings they were getting up to. Rangers have been banjoyed out the league because they were liquidated, plain and simple. The same punishment that would befall any other club. Do you believe that. So you think it had nothing to do with the fact the fans reacted at all to the possibility of Brand New FC entering the SPL? Do you honestly think if the fans had stayed quiet that the SPL would have said (or will say) no to Rangers transferring their share to Brand New FC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Civil War between SFA, SPL and SFL.... Source says this is nothing less than a crude takeover bid by Scottish Premier League for Football League...— alex thomson (@alextomo) June 29, 2012 Senior Hampden source tells #c4news cannot see how RFC were allowed to play last season at all. Doesn't believe they met finance criteria... — alex thomson (@alextomo) June 29, 2012 SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans - senior source in Hampden Pk tells #c4news — alex thomson (@alextomo) June 29, 2012 Senior Hampden source: they and clubs now inundated by fanpower demanding integrity over money. Says fans are right... — alex thomson (@alextomo) June 29, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Do not worry people. Rangers will not start in the First Division. It wont happen for legal reasons, it won't happen for integrity reasons, it wont happen because if it does Scottish Football is finished. You cannot have a succesful football league without fans. We have worried for weeks that Rangers would get into the SPL and in the end up that was not even close to happening. This will be the same. The only question in my mind is will Rangers survive long enough to even make it into Division 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Do not worry people. Rangers will not start in the First Division. It wont happen for legal reasons, it won't happen for integrity reasons, it wont happen because if it does Scottish Football is finished. You cannot have a succesful football league without fans.We have worried for weeks that Rangers would get into the SPL and in the end up that was not even close to happening. This will be the same. The only question in my mind is will Rangers survive long enough to even make it into Division 3? Ain't that the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Ehhhh I think that's pretty much the reception it got "....SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans - senior source in Hampden Pk tells #c4news — alex thomson (@alextomo) June 29, 2012..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 It is totally unbelievable that such a document could have ever been produced nevermind even published! for the life of me I don't understand this - was such a hamfisted thing put out in the knowledge it would be thrown out? is it an attempt to be able to say to SKY that they tried to get rangers into the 1st div? - surly the aurthors didn't think this would be taken seriously - one look at fans forums beforehand should have been enough to have this piece of bogroll binned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villageman Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 It is totally unbelievable that such a document could have ever been produced nevermind even published! for the life of me I don't understand this - was such a hamfisted thing put out in the knowledge it would be thrown out? is it an attempt to be able to say to SKY that they tried to get rangers into the 1st div? - surly the aurthors didn't think this would be taken seriously - one look at fans forums beforehand should have been enough to have this piece of bogroll binned! What makes you believe that the authors of this document ever had the INTELLIGENCE to consult the fans, forums or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I'm actually starting to believe that this document was leaked by on of the SFL clubs against the proposal in order to show the SPL up and get this kind of backlash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Raith and Clyde view The reason i'm posting this is there is a wee sub-section in the middle left hand side of the screen. The bottom bit says "instead Rangers could start life in Division one or three" A few days ago it just said "instead Rangers could start life in Division 1. A day before that it said "Instead Rangers are likely to start life in division 1". Perhaps sporting integrity has the momentum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 The most interesting thing I think from Sportsound today was both Jim Spence and Gordon Waddell saying they've spoken to a number of chairmen from all four divisions - the vast majority of whom have said that, long term, not having Rangers isn't actually a problem financially as they can adapt, it's just next season's contracts that are the issues. Putting aside that there have been clubs putting themselves in this situation by offering contracts to players while the existence of Rangers hangs in the balance (our own club included), this presumably means that if clubs can get through a tough financial next season, things will then begin to look up and the idea that we need Rangers in any form long-term is nonsense. The other highlight was an outstanding interview with the Raith chairman basically putting across the thoughts of 99% of Scottish football fans, and dismissing the latest proposals as blackmail and corruption. Well worth a listen online if possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 There will most likely be a podcast created later on. It normally goes up an hour after the show finishes. That will be about 5 o clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 According that document, our governing bodies recognise the need for change and restructuring. I'll be interested to see if all of the positive proposals (which appear to be just incentives to vote Rangers into division 1) still happen even if the SFL reject Rangers out of hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Remember a lot of things come from the McLeish report which was commissioned and I suspect published but I can't remember the dates long before the Rangers crisis was anywhere near where it is today. However things do seem to have accelerated in recent weeks to implement them. From what is coming out of the SFL I don't see anyway that Sevco will be anywhere other than Division 3 (unless that somewhere else is six feet under) and to be honest if I was an SPL chairman on the board when these proposals were put to me I would have been of the 'put it to them' camp - not because I thought it was right but because after saying no to them in the SPL it really isn't up to me where they go next, and I would then have to trust that they would vote in the interest of fairness and I think that is exactly what will happen. I would also be reticent about rejecting the proposals out of hand as when you take the Rangers bits out of the proposals there is some good stuff in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Remember a lot of things come from the McLeish report which was commissioned and I suspect published but I can't remember the dates long before the Rangers crisis was anywhere near where it is today. However things do seem to have accelerated in recent weeks to implement them. From what is coming out of the SFL I don't see anyway that Sevco will be anywhere other than Division 3 (unless that somewhere else is six feet under) and to be honest if I was an SPL chairman on the board when these proposals were put to me I would have been of the 'put it to them' camp - not because I thought it was right but because after saying no to them in the SPL it really isn't up to me where they go next, and I would then have to trust that they would vote in the interest of fairness and I think that is exactly what will happen. I would also be reticent about rejecting the proposals out of hand as when you take the Rangers bits out of the proposals there is some good stuff in there. There is some good stuff in there, for example, the merger of the SPL and SFL but allowing Rangers to parachute straight in to the 1st Division is far too big a price to pay in my opinion. In addition, the language of the document and the threats that lie with it is shameful. Why any of the second and third division chairman would vote for it for an extra 30k for one season only is way beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Bones Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Apologies if been posted before but this statement from Clyde is tremendous: Official statement from Clyde, up The Bully Wee. Club Statement: Reconstruction Proposal Sat, 30th Jun 2012 12:48pm The Club has received a set of papers in advance of the SFL meeting on Tuesday. The essential intent behind those papers is to induce the SFL clubs to agree a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the SFL in the 1st Division in exchange for a range of structural changes to the current set up and some small financial inducements. Some of the proposed changes have merit in principle. The Board believe that any proposals for change should not be rushed, as these have been. They also have to be done by consensus and not through threat or inducement, again, as these have been. The papers include a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the 1st Division. This is contrary to the rules of the SFL and nothing within the papers justifies this proposal. As a club owned by its supporters and recovering from having been on the brink of extinction, the Board of Clyde Football Club recognise the damage done to the credibility of Rangers Football Club by its successive owners, and the subsequent impact on staff and supporters. These proposals do nothing to restore that credibility. It is not for us to become involved in punishment, that is a matter for the SPL and SFA. The SFL clubs are being asked to change their rules so that the SPL and SFA can apply sanctions that fit short term financial interests. It is not for us to tell any club what they should want for themselves, but to enter anywhere other than the 3rd Division risks Rangers Football Club being burdened with the legacy of commencing its rebuilding in a manner that they later look back on with regret. Rangers Football Club does not need to be handed a competitive advantage, they are more than capable of returning to the SPL via the 3rd Division on their own merit. Rebuilding from the bottom can restore the dignity stripped from the club by its former owners. The papers use emotive language to threaten a future of financial meltdown and they carry the implication of the destruction of the game should a Newco not be entered in the 1st Division. If things are as bad as indicated then Scottish Football is in a far worse state than is being acknowledged. In which case it is time to accept the bankrupt model needs fixed and not supported and perpetuated on the back of this proposal. The fact that other clubs might face similar financial distress because Rangers Football Club enter the 3rd Division is hardly a reason to compromise the integrity of the SFL and further compromise Rangers Football Club. Rather than attempting to prepare a soft landing before delivering sanctions, it would be better to contemplate more radical change that might actually underpin financial stability in the long term for clubs that balance their books. Perhaps an amnesty from sanctions for clubs that are forced to face insolvency procedures in the next 2 years as a result of the current turmoil, and an automatic entry to the 3rd Division for any club liquidated and reformed in similar circumstances. This would allow 2 years to properly restructure the Scottish Game for the benefit of all and undo the damage that has been created by the current structure which encourages club directors to trade integrity for cash, and then spend beyond their means, willingly risking the very existence of football clubs. If we could believe that the game could be less self interested long enough to resolve this, then this, and other far better ideas, might be worth contemplating. SPL clubs that have openly stated their opposition to a Newco being given immediate access to the SPL have taken the position based on their, and at times, their supporters' view of what is the right thing to do, however, the vote has still to be taken and proposals such as these are premature. If the SPL clubs vote as indicated on the basis of the increasingly discredited notion of sporting integrity, it would be questionable if the SFL clubs did otherwise. The reality is that we are faced with unique circumstances and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise, that probably means that compromise for some is inevitable, and perhaps even worthwhile for everyone in the long term. The solution however is not this hastily cobbled together proposal. The Board of this club sees no merit whatsoever in adopting this proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunnyMFC Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guMuDwTy3NY&feature=plcp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Absolutely bang on the money, pardon the pun, that Clyde statement. If we as a game rely that heavily on the Old Firm financially then the game is already a bogey and we should rip it up and start again. Argued that point for years but no-one wanted to listen. Even in the last couple of days I've argued that point with fellow Well fans who ask me if I'm prepared to see my club in trouble by refusing Rangers a get-out clause. Simple answer is yes I am, but I would hope enough of our so-called fans, i.e. those who don't attend at the moment but profess a love for the club, would solve that problem by backing the club for their bravery in saying No. And don't start with the 'but I work every Saturday' or 'I can't afford it' or other such like. If you do then I'm obviously not getting at you but there are folk who are just sometimes too lazy or blase and take the club for granted, to those people that comment is aimed. Prove you love the club by getting off your arse and giving them some actual support. We can't survive on our current gates so we need more to come and attend, no more excuses, it's time for action as Secret Affair used to say. Of course that all hinges on our club being braver still and telling Doncaster and Regan they are miles out with their blackmailing tactics, this pair of pricks need booted out as all they can see is pound signs and profit margins, not the type of people to be running our game. The SFL might not be much better but these two need to be gone, someone with a little understanding of the way the game is meant to work would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Ive now gone past the point of no return on this one. I was of the opinion that the only way for this to be resolved was for Rangers to apply to the third division. However, the last few days have made it clear that no matter what, they will climb back with their sense of self entitlement to rule the roost over us and blight our lives. I now think total expulsion is the only way to go. This article reflects my feelings more eloquently www.henryclarson.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/when-theres-no-room-left-in-hell sorry guys, cant get the link to come up clicky on ma phone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Thats a great article and since all we are trying to do is make sure that They are treated fairly. i.e. the same as any other team. it would appear that they really should not be accepted into the SFL because they have no history. Now had they not been liquidated then they could have been expelled from the SPL and then applied to the SFL and met the criteria of 3 years accounts. However if those accounts were supposed to show legal and proper operations then perhaps acceptance would be more of an issue. I can't help but think that Rangers have dug their own grave. They ignored the old farmers saying "if you dig yourself into a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging" right from the offset of appointing Duff and Phelps i think they pretty much ignored that advice!!................................................Anyway roll on July 20th!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Interesting article in today's Scotland on Sunday, the main point being: The “lucrative” package of reconstruction proposals – with a new Rangers thrown in – was cooked up by SFA chief executive Stewart Regan, vice-president Rod Petrie, SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster and SFL chief executive David Longmuir. The latest turn of events is particularly embarrassing for Hibernian chairman Petrie. It has been reported he met new Rangers owner Charles Green to discuss plans to ease Rangers back into the First Division, despite his claim that “sporting integrity was beyond purchase”. So, if true, not only does this story suggest Flow's claims that no one at Fir Park was aware of the proposals, it also surely leaves the positions of Regan, Petrie, Doncaster and Longmuir untenable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 From the Sunday Mail. Here Rangers in crisis: Newco face uncertain future as SLF chiefs call in lawyers over vote rules Jul 1 2012 By Gordon Waddell rangers sign at ibrox RANGERS’ fate in Scottish football could be plunged into fresh chaos this week after it emerged the Scottish Football League have no idea how many votes it would take to get the newco into the First Division. MailSport understands all 30 SFL member clubs have been called to an 11am meeting at Hampden on Tuesday by chief executive David Longmuir. They’ll be asked their views on the compromise document given to them last week that would see a newco Rangers parachuted into the second tier in exchange for play-off places, a £1m TV-based pay-off and a fairer split of income. However there will be NO vote – as no-one knows if it will take 50, 66 or 75 per cent of the clubs to pass a decision. A team of lawyers is working over the weekend to pore over the constitution and establish a protocol. But with no mechanism in place for the unprecedented move, it’s unclear how many of the 30 votes would be needed. In the case of teams applying for entry to the SFL – as Annan Athletic did in 2008 – all that’s required is more than 50 per cent of teams in favour. There are other elements of their articles, though, that require two-thirds or even three-quarters for a majority – and the legal debate is ongoing as to where this case falls. Tuesday’s meeting will kick off a chain of events that the SFA hierarchy hope can bring the shambles the game has become to some kind of conclusion. If it doesn’t, SFA chief executive Stewart Regan is understood to be poised to step in and take ownership of the deepening crisis. SPL clubs will meet on Wednesday to vote on whether Rangers’ share should be transferred to Charles Green’s newco. The newco need an 8-4 majority to succeed – but six clubs have already publicly stated they’ll vote no to the transfer. At that point Gers’ fate falls back to the SFL. Even if a mechanism on a ballot is agreed, sources within the SFL are less than convinced Rangers would get the votes needed to join the First Division. Emotions are running high and clubs like Morton, Dunfermline, Falkirk and Raith Rovers have made their ‘no’ position clear. If others follow suit, the only option back into the game for the Ibrox club would be to bid for the free place that would be created at the bottom of Division Three by their absence. At that point, however, the door would also be open to other clubs to bid against them. MailSport understands Edinburgh outfit Spartans – who were denied by Annan at the last attempt – have already held one committee meeting to debate whether or not to seek election. The club will meet again on Thursday after the SFL’s position becomes clear and the proposal will be put to their members. It’s understood Spartans have been encouraged to bid by several SFL clubs. If they did, it would give rise though to a conflict of interests for Spartans chairman Craig Graham who would have to step down from the Appellate Tribunal which is still to re-sit in judgment of Rangers’ fate. It’s believed the members – Graham, Lord Carloway and Allan Cowan – have been asked for dates when they could reconvene within the next fortnight. Irrespective of what’s decided by the two league bodies in the coming week, the Tribunal, having been handed the case back by the Court of Session on appeal from Rangers, must find an alternative to their original sanction of a one-year transfer ban. The options likely to be considered are suspension and termination of membership. Suspension leaves no avenue within the Scottish game for appeal – the only option left for Green would be to lobby the Court of Arbitration in Sport. But termination of membership would allow newco Rangers an appeal to the SFA Board – who could arrive at a different determination again from either the Judicial Panel or the Appellate Tribunal. Looks like they'll get expelled then. That way they'll then come back into the League clean. It's time we all got behind the Spartans bid and say Fuck off to the SFA and Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Media reports say that the Joint Statement issued to SFL clubs was drawn up jointly by Messrs Doncaster, Regan, Longmuir and Rod Petrie. This corroborates the relevant part of Flow's statement. No mention of Ralph Topping but surely as CEO of the SPL its inconceivable that he wasn't aware of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 it also surely leaves the positions of Regan, Petrie, Doncaster and Longmuir untenable. if true, I will expect to hear about their resignations asap. Petrie especially, will have a hell of a lot of explaining to do. At the moment I am just relieved that we had no involvement in this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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