Malky79 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Youngsters like Cummins, Kerr, Hetherington who had games and have been slated for poor performances? Plenty younger players had opportunities this season, the fact as a club we can't afford to replace quality with quality is a problem. Jennings, Clancy and to an extent Craigan are clearly missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW1886 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Did anybody hear Terry Butcher's interview before their game last night? Completely talked up Sevco and insisted they were the favourites for the game.... Given that they then went on to win, we'll have to afford him the luxury that nobody seems willing to afford to McCall - that he privately said the complete opposite to his players. For me though - and I was very disappointed with that result - the 2 games are different. Sevco had a point to prove against us, I firmly believe that they would have dispatched any SPL team that night bar Celtic, while last night they weren't as fired up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Butcher was also over celebrating with the Inverness fans at full time, no chance in hell that McCall would have done that. Regardless of what Butcher says to the media, he's a winner and loves nothing more than beating either half of the OF. The same can't be said for McCall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 to be honest i think part of the problem is that more and more people are becoming scunnered with football in general at the moment, and moments like the sevco match don't do much to reverse that trend. I'm not sure this is that true outside motherwell. Other teams fans seem to be fairly excited at the new league with no rangers etc. I think it's really just the contrast between success last season, getting the CL qualifiers, travelling around Europe in the sun - and then suddenly we're getting pumped off sevco and celtic and being a bit shit in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky79 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Butcher was also over celebrating with the Inverness fans at full time, no chance in hell that McCall would have done that. Regardless of what Butcher says to the media, he's a winner and loves nothing more than beating either half of the OF. The same can't be said for McCall. I like to see us beat Rangers at Ibrox in the Scottish Cup this season to find out. Just because our record against OF been pish under McCall doesn't mean he wouldn't be delighted to beat them. Quite frankly course he would as it wouldn't harm his standing in the game even if for no other reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW1886 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Yet McCall has managed Motherwell teams to a higher league finish than Butcher has in the same season with Inverness? Ergo, winning more games than Butcher the winner has. McCall seems to be getting completely crucified for things that people are completely guessing at here. Unless you are in the dressing room, you can't possibly know what he says to the players before and after games. Yet it's now just accepted as fact on here that he's making no attempt to motivate the players..... The management and players are struggling at the moment, but are far from out of touch with second place. Yet, the fans seem determined to highlight every single error that the manager and players make to worsen this perceived crisis. I'll make a suggestion without any base really here, and say that I think we are back to the point when the players will prefer away games because any error they make won't be met with a wall of disapproval from the Fir Park fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 ..............................McCall seems to be getting completely crucified for things that people are completely guessing at here. Unless you are in the dressing room, you can't possibly know what he says to the players before and after games. Yet it's now just accepted as fact on here that he's making no attempt to motivate the players..... Spot on Scott. Negative comment can often outshout positive comment, and folks are generally motivated more to post a negative coment than a poitive one - thats the nature of the beast. We need a pickmeup, and quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamH Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Youngsters like Cummins, Kerr, Hetherington who had games and have been slated for poor performances? Plenty younger players had opportunities this season, the fact as a club we can't afford to replace quality with quality is a problem. Jennings, Clancy and to an extent Craigan are clearly missed. Cummins and Kerr have both had good games as well as bad ones. That's what happens with kids but in their case it is exacerbated by the fact the defence is being changed almost weekly and they don't have a Craigan type to play alongside them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldonmac Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Where do we go from here ........ we pick ourselves up, we dust ourselves down and we get on with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Geed and Gaag make excellent points. My apathy with the game has nowt to do with our results. Thst would be very fickle and I have supported them through worse. The cost of the game. The standard of football from the vast majority in the SPL. The garbage kick off times and date switching which for a shift worker is now far too much effort. The continuing slashing of our budget year on year. Players getting first team football well before they are ready. The never ending Ramgers saga. Just some of the reasons for me. Hearts away was a big game for me. Not cause we got beat.....I honestly wasn't fussed. Cost, kick off time, live on TV, etc. and very poor crowd made me question what I was doing, prices involved and whst else I could be doing. As an example that one game, about 5 hours out the house could have cost about £40-£50 when you take in ticket, travel, and food. That would get you, again for example, a THREE MONTH unlimited Lovefilm subscription. Only an example but worth it? In my opinion it isn't anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geed Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Butcher was also over celebrating with the Inverness fans at full time, no chance in hell that McCall would have done that. Regardless of what Butcher says to the media, he's a winner and loves nothing more than beating either half of the OF. The same can't be said for McCall. Spot on, Butcher is a man i respect hates losing and loves winning and he shows both emotions publicly, unlike McCall who tends to praise the other team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Spot on, Butcher is a man i respect hates losing and loves winning and he shows both emotions publicly, unlike McCall who tends to praise the other team I don't hold much with the lack of emotion thing. Some of the greatest managers and coaches across all sports never show anything (Bill Belichick at the New England Patriots being a classic example). And while I have great appreciation for what Butcher did as a manager when he took over, I also remember seeing some of our worst performances under his watch. Let's not pretend he took our squad and turned them into a bunch of table-topping winners. We finished something like 12th-6th-6th-8th when he was the boss and I'm not even going to mention the CIS Cup Final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Watching Butchers team was full of incident and passion, until near the end of his tenure when it was getting stagnant as he too tried for a steady ship McCall is a more successful Motherwell manager, fact, and I hope that he can find his and the teams Mojo and instill a little excitement back into the game as its not particularly the results that are killing it for me , it's the sheer ludicrous and stubborn mistakes that get played out over and over again which gets very tiring, like the attempt at fitting the wrong players into an eleven and hoping they suddenly develop into a player they've never been I'd rather see it being mixed up in at least an attempt to correct them, but that the same all over the club & in life, any mistake made, try and learn from it and put a change in place If we ever play Rangers again , I'd hope that since the Doomed approach hasn't worked even if its different in private, then at very least, change the record as it is alienating fans who are already too few Footballs a passionate hobby, and once fans get scunnered its a long road back 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 At least watching the Gannon and Malpas times, I could feel myself getting angry, disappointed, or at least hopeful that we'd turn it around. I was fucking furious when we got beaten by Sevco, don't get me wrong, but since then, I've struggled to get past apathetic. This team just looks utterly demotivated, stagnant, devoid of ideas, and lacking in any real concentration. I said as well that I was wondering what the attendance would be before the Hibs game. Part of the reason I was wondering was the realisation that if I didn't have a season ticket, and was PATG, there wouldn't be a chance in hell that I'd have attended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Yep stagnant and devoid of ideas sums it up for me. Usually Perth is an away game me and ma Mrs go to. But not this time. I'll probably not be back till after New Year. Not spending my hard earned on non trying prima donnas and a manager who doesn't seem all that bothered. <_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogsideloyal Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 who doesn't seem all that bothered. Not sure if serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilmour Posted November 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Watching Butchers team was full of incident and passion, until near the end of his tenure when it was getting stagnant as he too tried for a steady ship McCall is a more successful Motherwell manager, fact, and I hope that he can find his and the teams Mojo and instill a little excitement back into the game as its not particularly the results that are killing it for me , it's the sheer ludicrous and stubborn mistakes that get played out over and over again which gets very tiring, like the attempt at fitting the wrong players into an eleven and hoping they suddenly develop into a player they've never been I'd rather see it being mixed up in at least an attempt to correct them, but that the same all over the club & in life, any mistake made, try and learn from it and put a change in place If we ever play Rangers again , I'd hope that since the Doomed approach hasn't worked even if its different in private, then at very least, change the record as it is alienating fans who are already too few Footballs a passionate hobby, and once fans get scunnered its a long road back Spot on, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc88 Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 For me, looking at the bigger picture, I don't think anyone can dispute that McCall has done a good job for us. Looking at the bigger picture that is. It's the lack of a plan B and the willingness to shake things up a bit that is frustrating. As someone else pointed out, under other managers (who have been less successful), if we played badly we could at least rest assured that the players weren't having an easy time of it and changes would be made accordingly but that doesn't seem to be the case just now. Ok we have a small squad but we also have a handful of hungry young lads who have shown they have something to offer. That for me is frustrating as a fan, not only on the playing side but also for the long term sustainability of the club - we need to develop talent to play in the first team and/or to sell on. I don't know if there should be more pressure from above for the manager to do this as surely it's a requirement of the job, no? Then again telling the manager who to play is a bit Romanov-esque. On the playing side, however, in mccalls defence he has had a shoestring of a budget to work with, budget cut from last season, no investment. Teams that have had this luxury (st j, hibs etc) are thriving this year. Which perhaps brings in to question the feasibility of, dare I say it, fan ownership. But what other options do we have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 I'm going on Saturday as form has never been a deciding factor in my attendance of games. If you're a Motherwell fan it surely can't be! I've endured worse runs than this and still went to reasonably great lengths to make the games. In fact, I wouldn't even really class this as a truly "bad run" really, it's more themanner of how it's gradually been building that's the most concerning. I'm not apathetic at the moment, as I'm starting to get worried about the rut we appear to be in and a seemingly pigheaded approach from McCall over systems/players/formations that everyone else can see bar him. If I turn up at Perth to see Humphrey starting with Murphy wide left and Law in the middle then then ball is burst as that's one of the main problems we've had in the last while. I've said before that I will really start to worry if Dundee win a game before we do. Truth is we haven't kicked our own arse all season and got lucky in the opening half dozen games. Playing in Europe was a factor we were told by multiple sources for a slowish start, but if anything our results were better then?!?!? We're missing Jennings and Craigan more than we ever missed McFadden, McDonald, Jutkiewicz, Clarkson, Porter, McCormack, O'Brien or any other star player that's left in the last 10 years. There is seemingly no drive, determination and guts running right through the team either. I would even go as far as to say that McCall has been really stung by the (deserved) criticism of the Sevco debacle and this has since affected his approach. The performance that night (and subsequent ease with which ICT then brushed them aside) will stick in Motherwell fans craws for many a day in fact. Apathetic? That's different. Last time felt that was when Brown shafted us and McCall began his tenure with defeats to Killie, ICT, St Mirren and St Johnstone in amongst it. We weren't in any danger of going down but due to circumstances in life at the time I really had to question whether other priorities were worth missing to make the effort to watch Motherwell. Especially if it meant getting up at 8am on a Sunday to travel for a noon kick off. I even missed the Stranraer cup game to go and watch Leeds v Coventry!! Before I felt guilty about missing a game, I now know that's ridiculous! For me, apathy in football is more dangerous to a fanbase than poor form orworry, and when long suffering die hard fans finally say "Fuck this!" the club(s) should worry. I'm not even nearly at that stage yet, it's the cost of petrol and ridiculous kick off times that will ultimately affect my attendance at the moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Onward and upward. Things are not as bad as they seem. Okay we are an average side in an average league but Dundee will make it very difficult to get relegated. This is a chance to try some of our promising youngsters as that is the only way forward for a club like ours. We will need them next season when a few of our squad will be on their way. Have been a well fan for forty years and have been through much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 When i read the thread about Big Tel celebrating with the Caley fans it brings back happy memories of him celebrating with US when we beat Hearts in that never to be forgotten semi victory i wish we had just a wee bit of passion from our current manager who seems to just shrug his shoulders when we're shite and leave us fans kicking the dog and climbing the walls. It's not that we're getting pumped it's the MANNER in which we're getting pumped. . And it would be nice to give Celtic or Sevco a decent GAME also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 When i read the thread about Big Tel celebrating with the Caley fans it brings back happy memories of him celebrating with US when we beat Hearts in that never to be forgotten semi victory i wish we had just a wee bit of passion from our current manager who seems to just shrug his shoulders when we're shite and leave us fans kicking the dog and climbing the walls. It's not that we're getting pumped it's the MANNER in which we're getting pumped. . And it would be nice to give Celtic or Sevco a decent GAME also. Wait you're praising Butcher for his celebration when winning, and then bemoaning McCall for shrugging his shoulders in defeats. Is that not comparing Apples and Oranges? Of course if McCall showed no passion and refused to celebrate our win against St Johnstone in the Scottish Cup you'll probably then have an argument. Also, if I remember rightly Butcher used to take one hell of a slagging on here and on the other forum for his Old Firm stance of "meh" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Mind Malpas? Now he was indifference personified. Prick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I have been singing Haircut 100 all week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I agree about Malpas. A tosser if ever there was one. <_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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