Alexander.

[bobbybingo]

24 minutes ago, smiddy said:

in the 70s when you were on the sites if you moaned about anything thats exactly what you were telt     and by the golden handshake  youv got it       rewarded for not being up to standard     worth wondering if he got the " warning , written warning, last warning, etc etc " for being shite ? now dont jump inn as i am now having a bit of banter

 

Mibbe the stuff on here counts as written warnings.

[smiddy]

5 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Mibbe the stuff on here counts as written warnings.

now that could be a starter

[smiddy]

6 minutes ago, Yodo said:

I seen u licking the windaes as I was leaving 

maybe you are right     thats what this team drives us to

[Haggischomper]

That would be the Liam Kelly who is on 200k a year and who conceded 3 goals against a team Motherwell should have beaten easily?
Fans are to blame for the fact that Motherwell didn't get the equaliser at Fir Park? With all due respect to Liam that's a load of cobblers. The reason we didn't get the equaliser is because we don't have a prolific striker.
Van Veen is too inconsistent. Efford hasn't produced the goods either. Absolutely it can't be nice to be in front of a hostile crowd but that's what happens in football at times. He's kidding himself on if he thinks a supportive crowd would have got us an equaliser.
Look at the travelling support we took to the Livi game last season. Fans were behind the team from the off and it took that Lamie strike to secure top six.
Kevin Van Veen has spoken to the press and been honest about his own poor performance without pointing the finger at Motherwell fans.
Absolutely agree that alcohol in the mix didn't help. Even before kick off at Fir Park police were called to club 100 as it was getting a bit rowdy even though there was no trouble.
The word my brother used to describe the team at the Sligo home game was rancid and he maybe missed two home games last season due to work so like a lot of fans he's been watching Motherwell regularly enough to come to a conclusion about how good or bad we are.

Think you need to look again at what he actually said.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[ppower]

22 hours ago, smiddy said:

toxic probably     anger feckin deffo    i for one spent the thick end of £750  to watch  90 mins of shite from that bunch of feckin spineless cants   anyway rant over

at least the guiness / cider was great

That's exactly the point. It isn't cheap to travel. It isn't that cheap for some people to buy a season ticket. You pay your money you are entitled to express your feelings. Some fans may go a bit too far. If the best the players and Alexander can come up with is the fans drove me out and the fans are toxic, that makes me laugh.

Listen to Fergie talk about his early days at Man Utd. Alexander and the players don't know what toxic is. Grow a pair.

[David]

Something I've always wondered about when I read about situations like this, is what kind of effect it has on future player and manager recruitment? 

I mean, for most players and managers this is simply their job. Very few are plying their trade for a club they have an emotional attachment to. Also, football players and managers talk to each other. It's a relatively small industry. 

If you were a manager who had a few options to get back into the game, or to even move up a few levels, would something like this play a part? We've read often enough about how players and managers will pick up the phone to speak to people who know about the club, ex-managers and so forth before they take the job. Alexander reportedly spent a bit of time chatting with Robinson before accepting the position. 

What will Alexander tell a potential manager if they ask him about his time here? Very well-run club with some great backroom staff and a decent squad, but a fanbase that will hurl abuse at you on the regular if things turn? 

If I was a player from down south with a few options including Motherwell, i'd be looking at Kelly's comments and the situation with the manager and be thinking "do I want to subject my family, my parents, my kids to reading abuse directed at me and my team mates on Twitter or social media any time we don't play well or lose? Or even worse, have them sitting in the main stand to watch me play only to see grown adults hanging over the side of the stadium to hurl abuse as we leave the field?"

And I know that some people will say "well, you're a footballer, you're in a privileged position, you make a lot of money, just man up and accept it" but no one wants to work in a somewhat toxic workplace, do they? Especially if they have options.

If any one of us on here had a few different job offers and one of them was known in the industry for being hard work, a difficult environment to work in, would we want to work there?

All I'm saying is, most players we sign usually have a few different options available to them in the form of similar sized clubs down south and even up here. The pull of Motherwell lately has been the chance to kick on and progress your career, but if the reports of negativity start to outweigh the positives, we may find that players we target opt for elsewhere where the atmosphere is less likely to turn. 

I'd hate to see us get a reputation in the game as a place where players and managers actively avoid unless they have no other option.

[KirkySuperSub]

8 minutes ago, David said:

If I was a player from down south with a few options including Motherwell, i'd be looking at Kelly's comments and the situation with the manager and be thinking "do I want to subject my family, my parents, my kids to reading abuse directed at me and my team mates on Twitter or social media any time we don't play well or lose? Or even worse, have them sitting in the main stand to watch me play only to see grown adults hanging over the side of the stadium to hurl abuse as we leave the field?"

I say this as a non-Twitterer and a very infrequent reader of other teams social media channels, but I would very much doubt what you describe above is unique to Motherwell fans.

[David]

1 minute ago, KirkySuperSub said:

I say this as a non-Twitterer and a very infrequent reader of other teams social media channels, but I would very much doubt what you describe above is unique to Motherwell fans.

Of course it isn't, but do many other clubs have their best player and captain come out and address it in the media?

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, KirkySuperSub said:

I say this as a non-Twitterer and a very infrequent reader of other teams social media channels, but I would very much doubt what you describe above is unique to Motherwell fans.

On the whole the fanbase are terrific, really passionate about the club. There are however a small minority of the male adults who are akin to rabid dogs, some of abuse they come out with is quite staggering.  It seems turning up at Fir park gives permission to just go to town on anyone in a way they would never do at any other time in their lives.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, David said:

Of course it isn't, but do many other clubs have their best player and captain come out and address it in the media?

These things are not unique to Motherwell. Our support isnt any better or worse than any other in that respect.

That being the case our best player and Captain would have been better to keep his counsel on that one.

The fact that he is our best player and had a blinder yesterday will allow it to be washed over and forgotten quickly.

The relationship between fans, players and manager is a 2 way street. You reap the benefits when things are going well, but you need to be ready for when they are not. Robbo got both sudes of that coin and Im pretty sure he would have told Alexander exactly that.

[Kmcalpin]

As others have said, our fans are no worse or better than most.  I've heard some pretty vitriolic stuff being chanted at a good few other grounds - Tannadice and Falkirk being but two examples. Given the size of our club, our fans are an easy target and the red tops can print what they want about them without upsetting their readership to any extent. Their judgement call was that Liam Kelly's status was more important to them  than that of our fans.  Would they have printed those comments about the grueseome twosome's fans - absolutely not. Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts fans - probably not.

A lot will also depend on Graham Alexander's reputation within the game.  I have no idea what that is.  What will Stephen O'Donnell's contacts within the game make of it?

[dennyc]

Fans all over the world are the same. Team on a bad run, players not performing, Manager looking bereft of ideas as how to turn things round, culminating in an embarrassing defeat..home and away…in a match the fans had looked forward to for months. No matter the team, no matter the country, the reaction would have been the same. Patience only goes so far.

In the same way that if a team is on a good run, players and Manager performing, fans will react positively and all will be well in the world. And players and fans will be big mates. 

Rightly or wrongly that’s the way it is with football in particular. Passion is a powerful thing. Rather that than fans and players don’t care.

Time to move on once more. 

[star sail]

2 hours ago, David said:

Something I've always wondered about when I read about situations like this, is what kind of effect it has on future player and manager recruitment? 

I mean, for most players and managers this is simply their job. Very few are plying their trade for a club they have an emotional attachment to. Also, football players and managers talk to each other. It's a relatively small industry. 

If you were a manager who had a few options to get back into the game, or to even move up a few levels, would something like this play a part? We've read often enough about how players and managers will pick up the phone to speak to people who know about the club, ex-managers and so forth before they take the job. Alexander reportedly spent a bit of time chatting with Robinson before accepting the position. 

What will Alexander tell a potential manager if they ask him about his time here? Very well-run club with some great backroom staff and a decent squad, but a fanbase that will hurl abuse at you on the regular if things turn? 

If I was a player from down south with a few options including Motherwell, i'd be looking at Kelly's comments and the situation with the manager and be thinking "do I want to subject my family, my parents, my kids to reading abuse directed at me and my team mates on Twitter or social media any time we don't play well or lose? Or even worse, have them sitting in the main stand to watch me play only to see grown adults hanging over the side of the stadium to hurl abuse as we leave the field?"

And I know that some people will say "well, you're a footballer, you're in a privileged position, you make a lot of money, just man up and accept it" but no one wants to work in a somewhat toxic workplace, do they? Especially if they have options.

If any one of us on here had a few different job offers and one of them was known in the industry for being hard work, a difficult environment to work in, would we want to work there?

All I'm saying is, most players we sign usually have a few different options available to them in the form of similar sized clubs down south and even up here. The pull of Motherwell lately has been the chance to kick on and progress your career, but if the reports of negativity start to outweigh the positives, we may find that players we target opt for elsewhere where the atmosphere is less likely to turn. 

I'd hate to see us get a reputation in the game as a place where players and managers actively avoid unless they have no other option.

I think the people at the club have worked very hard to make Motherwell a good club to work for and I don’t think that reputation will be tarnished. Alexander himself said how much he enjoyed working with the people at the club. There will be many clubs in both Scotland and England that will be far less supportive to work for. Fans are the same at every club so that is a constant. A new manager should have the confidence in his ability to get the fans on side.

Regarding Alexander himself. Once again he was the right man at the right time for our club. The primary aim for our board is to pick a man that will keep us in the top flight. I have said many times before that it is a minor miracle that we have maintained our top flight status for so long. The board of MFC deserve huge credit for this. I scratch my head when I read the negativity towards Alan Burrows. He does a great job in very difficult circumstances. David I know from reading the threads that you are a defender of the club and board so quoting you here is not to counter your opinions.

Alexanders stats are impressive. He was an honest man doing an honest job and deserves our thanks. He was never going to produce fireworks. His time at Salford told us this. It will be interesting to see in a years time if we regret letting him go in the way Salford did.

Ultimately though the Sligo result was really poor and he had to go. I do wonder however if he was the problem or if indeed Scottish Football is now so bad we should not be surprised by the result. Sadly I think the latter may be true.

 I remember a debate raging on here a few years back about not reading anything into pre season results. For me when a Full time professional team is struggling to beat the likes of Gateshead, even if it is pre-season, the warning bells should be ringing.

Scottish Managers, pundits and players have been making excuses for over a decade now as to why we are so poor when we step out of Scotland. Sadly the facts don’t lie.

All the best to GA. Hope he has a long a successful management career.

 

[joewarkfanclub]

I think when you have a situation where clubs in the English 5th tier can pay more money than our club for players we need to re-assess the model and ask whether trying to sign players from these leagues is of benefit to us. For every Louis Moult and Cedric Kipre that are unearthed, there are another half dozen who are nothing more than journeyman professionals who are doing nothing to improve the quality of our squad/league.  

The future for clubs our size has to be developing young local talent. Yes, we may lose many of them to english academys before they play a first team game, but it shouldnt stop us trying. Your Cadden, Turnbull, Campbell, Hastie, Cornelius' are the way ahead for us and the only chance we have to try and challenge and improve because there is no ceiling on the level that talent could pitentially reach.

We do of course need a core of experienced players to support and guide them, but these should be handpicked, known quantities rather than just the "total punts" we seem to have favoured over the last few years.

In my opinion, our next manager has to fulfill those criteria if we are to halt the current malaise.

[Onthefringes]

49 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I think when you have a situation where clubs in the English 5th tier can pay more money than our club for llayers we need to re-assess the model and ask whether trying to sign players from these leagues is of benefit to us. For every Louis Moult and Cedric Kipre that are unearthed, there are another half dozen who are nothing more than journeyman professionals who are doing nothing to improve the quality of our squad/league.  

The future for clubs our size has to be developing young local talent. Yes, we may lose many of them to english academys before they play a first team game, but it shouldnt stop us trying. Your Cadden, Turnbull, Campbell, Hastie, Cornelius' are the way ahead for us and the only chance we have to try and challenge and improve because there is no ceiling on the level that talent could pitentially reach.

We do of course need a core of experienced players to support and guide them, but these should be handpicked, known quantities rather than just the "total punts" we seem to have favoured over the last few years.

In my opinion, our next manager has to fulfill those criteria if we are to halt the current malaise.

Lot of merit in that post.

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I think when you have a situation where clubs in the English 5th tier can pay more money than our club for llayers we need to re-assess the model and ask whether trying to sign players from these leagues is of benefit to us. For every Louis Moult and Cedric Kipre that are unearthed, there are another half dozen who are nothing more than journeyman professionals who are doing nothing to improve the quality of our squad/league.  

The future for clubs our size has to be developing young local talent. Yes, we may lose many of them to english academys before they play a first team game, but it shouldnt stop us trying. Your Cadden, Turnbull, Campbell, Hastie, Cornelius' are the way ahead for us and the only chance we have to try and challenge and improve because there is no ceiling on the level that talent could pitentially reach.

We do of course need a core of experienced players to support and guide them, but these should be handpicked, known quantities rather than just the "total punts" we seem to have favoured over the last few years.

In my opinion, our next manager has to fulfill those criteria if we are to halt the current malaise.

The reality I fear is that’s easier said than done. As you say many are lost before they even have a chance of the first team, those that do come through every few years hardly play a game for the first team before we lose them again and of course that development costs money. Much of what is made in transfer fees then needs to go back into development. If we could keep young talent for  a couple of seasons and actually enjoy watching them great but how quickly did we lose Hastie, Scott, Turnbull, their impact was very short and sweet. The problem with handpicked known quantities “of a certain level” is they are chased by everyone else and priced out of our budget hence the club has tried to sign players who have done relatively well at the top end of the championship and decent Premiership level players. Even then we have supporters writing those players off before they have hardly kicked a ball in anger, look at the three new signings this season, it’s not exactly going to install confidence if you are told you’re shite after 30 minutes of the first game. There are a list of players signed from Scottish football over the last couple of years who were certainly not total punts and they pretty much all took a kicking.  I would argue most were in fact known quantities “ of a level we can attract, and afford” we’ve just signed another two.

[joewarkfanclub]

3 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

The reality I fear is that’s easier said than done. As you say many are lost before they even have a chance of the first team, those that do come through every few years hardly play a game for the first team before we lose them again and of course that development costs money. Much of what is made in transfer fees then needs to go back into development. If we could keep young talent for  a couple of seasons and actually enjoy watching them great but how quickly did we lose Hastie, Scott, Turnbull, their impact was very short and sweet. The problem with handpicked known quantities “of a certain level” is they are chased by everyone else and priced out of our budget hence the club has tried to sign players who have done relatively well at the top end of the championship and decent Premiership level players. Even then we have supporters writing those players off before they have hardly kicked a ball in anger, look at the three new signings this season, it’s not exactly going to install confidence if you are told you’re shite after 30 minutes of the first game. There are a list of players signed from Scottish football over the last couple of years who were certainly not total punts and they pretty much all took a kicking.  I would argue most were in fact known quantities “ of a level we can attract, and afford” we’ve just signed another two.

Im more than happy with Spittal and McGinn (albeit you could argue whether we needed McGinn) and I think Morris could have something to offer in a settled side. I thought it signalled a slight change in signing policy. Those are probably the kind of signings I think we need to support the young players coming through. Another Cooper or Phil O'Donnell would be even better, although probably a little fanciful in the current climate.

[Spit_It_Out]

I say this within 5 mins of young Spiers debut a Motherwell born local lad folk were posting he is shite,not fit,don't fancy him much doesn't look a player.

Kelly speaks his mind being open and it's hang him high,might not turn up for us now,might not put in the effort.

Blows my mind and I won't be shocked if Kelly  might even go  this transfer window and I wouldn't hold it against him.

Football is about opinions but some folk really need to have a look at themselves it's embarrassing.

[wellup83]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

The future for clubs our size has to be developing young local talent.

It certainly should be, even HAS to be. The problem is that no-one in the top division has the patience or the balls to make it a priority. I think clubs see it as too much of a risk in the short term with the threat of relegation.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, wellup83 said:

It certainly should be, even HAS to be. The problem is that no-one in the top division has the patience or the balls to make it a priority. I think clubs see it as too much of a risk in the short term with the threat of relegation.

That is certainly true.

The way I look at it though, is that the quality of exeprienced player we are able to bring in now has fallen so low, the risk of playing a young player you have faith in is becoming negligible.

Id much rather watch a team of our youngsters have a go an develop than a group of journeyman that are never going to improve.

Balancing the two is the trick, and finding a manager brave enough and with the skills to do is the key.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, Spit_It_Out said:

I say this within 5 mins of young Spiers debut a Motherwell born local lad folk were posting he is shite,not fit,don't fancy him much doesn't look a player.

Kelly speaks his mind being open and it's hang him high,might not turn up for us now,might not put in the effort.

Blows my mind and I won't be shocked if Kelly  might even go  this transfer window and I wouldn't hold it against him.

Football is about opinions but some folk really need to have a look at themselves it's embarrassing.

I dont think Kelly is going to make a decision on where he plays his football off the back of criticism from a minority of reactionary idiots who really should know better.

He got a standing ovation leaving the pitch yesterday. He knows the majority of fans appreciate him.

We may well lose him in Junuary, butnit wil be because another club with more money recognises his talent too.

[weeyin]

As I've said many times in the past, the entire point of an Academy is develop a quality of player we could never afford to buy - with a secondary important benefit of generating revenue when we sell players on.

One of the bigger challenges we (and lots of clubs our size) face these days is getting any games from the young talent as bigger clubs come in and poach them before they sign their senior contracts.

 

[Yabba's Turd]

12 hours ago, David said:

 

I'd hate to see us get a reputation in the game as a place where players and managers actively avoid unless they have no other option.

Unfortunately we've had that rep for years

[Yorkyred]

5 hours ago, weeyin said:

As I've said many times in the past, the entire point of an Academy is develop a quality of player we could never afford to buy - with a secondary important benefit of generating revenue when we sell players on.

One of the bigger challenges we (and lots of clubs our size) face these days is getting any games from the young talent as bigger clubs come in and poach them before they sign their senior contracts.

 

And that’s not going to get any easier. Even then all we are doing is developing players for the likes of Rangers and Celtic. Yes we can make some money at times but they spend little time in the first team before moving on.

[Welldaft Mk1]

10 minutes ago, Yabba's Turd said:

Unfortunately we've had that rep for years

Not sure I understand this comment.  Unless everyone is lying most Managers and players I recall have said this is a very stable club with a supportive Board. 

Finances tend to dictate overall and we simply don’t have the budget to get the better or best Managers or players. 

The reality is that as a result most of the players we bring to the club will not be a Moult, Kipre, Marv Johnson. Probably one in 7-10 players will have that impact or probably even lower odds.