Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[Throughthelaces]

I'll chip in here I've never liked Kettlewell brand of football since we lost the squad he had when he took over from Hammell I don't think we've ever hit the heights we did there or approached anything close to it. I'm not going to name call him I do think our issues are a bit more complex than just the manager but the brand of football we play is unacceptable. And If Kettlewell won't change it then he has to go as its that bad. I'm sorry but it is. we are so boring and dull and I would like to see stats on goals from open play as we must be one of the worst for that.

My wish for motherwell is we start from a base of being hard to beat and play some decent football doesn't need to be tiki taka but we should be able to play a pass here and there that splits a defence or can tackle in midfield and defend at the back.

We should ALWAYS have 11 Nasty buggers on the pitch with 1 or 2 young players in amongst to develop and sell for a fee. That should be our model yes we need squad players but at minimum they should be able to play when called upon football is a squad game at the end of the day.

this we struggled due to missing x numbers of regular starters is BS everyone at the club should be raring to play and at this point of the season know the system they're expected to play.

If Kettlewell can't do the above which I think is what can reasonably be expected from motherwell then he can't hang around talking about we signed guys who's values line up with our philosophy we're a football club not a social work. I mean this in the nicest possible way the only thing I care about from our players Is what they do on the pitch not that they're lovely blokes off it.

 

[wunderwell]

The problem that I see is akin to when Stephen Robinson (who is well regarded) left.

It was clear to see on his final game that he had ran out of ideas on how to fix things.
His rebirth at St Mirren stands him in good stead but he could be in danger there of a similar scenario.

Kettlewell I think should be held in a similar regard, albeit not two cup finals.
The danger yet again though is there is a time when things potentially fizzle out

[joewarkfanclub]

13 hours ago, star sail said:

Thank you for the first comment.

I maybe did not make myself very clear with my comment. It was in response to the very last line of mfc88's post when he said words to the effect that all debate was good. 

I don't have any issue with there being a discussion about the managers performance or the teams performance. That is what this forum is for. There is no doubt that there is problems to address and the style of football can be questioned. I was really disbondent driving home on Saturday night.

The concern I have is the emotive language that is often used and the over willingness to start and resurrect these threads at the first available opportunity.

The clamour to get managers sacked has become an ugly reality of modern day football. I don't think Tommy McLean would have made it to the Scottish Cup Final if he managed in modern times. I watched some howling performances from his teams in the time leading up to the heady days of 91.

SK has been a good servant to the club. Quotes like 'get him to fuck' and adjectives like imposter and wage thief are personal in nature and grossly unfair for a man that will be putting in a harder days graft than most on this forum.

I don't read twitter and other social media platforms but it must be pretty bad if it is notably worse than some of the comments on here.

Strangely I feel that the situation this time may be a little more serious than the 15 game winless run but I think this has much to do with a modern culture where tolerance for managers generally lasts about 18-24 months before fans start looking for the new Messiah.

I would like to see Kettlewell get time to have a fully fit Slattery, Miller and Nicolson in his team. If performances don't improve then, it may be time to thank him for his service and look elsewhere.

I accept that I am now in a minority but I still believe that he has earned the time to try and fix things.

 

Thanks for the clarification, and I dont disagree with most if it.

Modern life in general is far less tolerant than it used to be. Society has been groomed to want the next best thing now and that you dont necessarily have to wait or work hard for it.

No doubt Wee Tommy would have found it tough in the current circumstances.

I dont think you are in the minority though wanting SK to get it right and turn things around. Ive been beating the Slattery, Nicholson, Paton, Miller drum for a while.

I (and a number of our other more patient posters) just think time is running out and the manager needs to show a realisation that there are more ways to win a game of football than the one currently being employed.

He needs to buy himself time until his favoured midfield / set up is fit and available to play.

Saturday is a must win. Any way possible. I dont care how ugly it is or what tactics require to be employed. But we need to give ourselves some breathing space again.

That said, the same passive long ball tactics which have been failing, would be unacceptable.

[Throughthelaces]

40 minutes ago, wunderwell said:

The problem that I see is akin to when Stephen Robinson (who is well regarded) left.

It was clear to see on his final game that he had ran out of ideas on how to fix things.
His rebirth at St Mirren stands him in good stead but he could be in danger there of a similar scenario.

Kettlewell I think should be held in a similar regard, albeit not two cup finals.
The danger yet again though is there is a time when things potentially fizzle out

I'd disagree I think Robinson is twice the manager Kettlewell is and I'd actually regard Robinson as our best manager in my lifetime (I'm 28) I think for the situation he took us over from to what he did I always felt we were heading in the right direction he has his flaws but was overall a great manager 

[joewarkfanclub]

6 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said:

I'd disagree I think Robinson is twice the manager Kettlewell is and I'd actually regard Robinson as our best manager in my lifetime (I'm 28) I think for the situation he took us over from to what he did I always felt we were heading in the right direction he has his flaws but was overall a great manager 

I would say Robinson and Kettlewell are similar in a lot of respects.

The main difference is that when Robinson finally realised his preferred way of playing wasnt working, he did change it up and did something different. Obviously that also went tits up in the end.

SK still has time to show he can re-invent himself and this team, but he needs to do it soon before he totally loses the support, or the booing will only get louder.

[Throughthelaces]

I think the time in the middle like under Robinson I generally felt we played better football than we've ever played under Kettlewell. I think the league finishes Robinson achieved over his 3 full seasons we won more points and finished higher okay we were 10th when he left but that was the covid season and I would also include he got us our best run of results in Europe that season in a long time which Kettlewell looks as though we'll be what Hamilton were when they were here if we persist. The Kettlewell system has looked suspect for so long and he's failed to change it. 

[joewarkfanclub]

13 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said:

I think the time in the middle like under Robinson I generally felt we played better football than we've ever played under Kettlewell. I think the league finishes Robinson achieved over his 3 full seasons we won more points and finished higher okay we were 10th when he left but that was the covid season and I would also include he got us our best run of results in Europe that season in a long time which Kettlewell looks as though we'll be what Hamilton were when they were here if we persist. The Kettlewell system has looked suspect for so long and he's failed to change it. 

We played some good stuff when he immediately took over and some of the football we played last year with Spittal, Miller, Paton and Slattery/Nicholson was excellent. So it hasnt all been awful to watch.

This season has been a different matter, with the odd exception here and there, its been pretty ugly.

Robinsons Thunderdome team wasnt the prettiest, but it was still exciting.

Thats the difference hear. Its ugly AND boring. We are also way too passive. 

[Throughthelaces]

11 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

We played some good stuff when he immediately took over and some of the football we played last year with Spittal, Miller, Paton and Slattery/Nicholson was excellent. So it hasnt all been awful to watch.

This season has been a different matter, with the odd exception here and there, its been pretty ugly.

Robinsons Thunderdome team wasnt the prettiest, but it was still exciting.

Thats the difference hear. Its ugly AND boring. We are also way too passive. 

I think we had some games last season where we were a great watch livi at home in December springs to mind also rangers away. but we also had that 18 game spell of not winning a game. Like the revisionist history is we were unlucky not to catch top 6 but the facts are when you go that many games not winning in a row you're not gonna catch it and don't deserve to either. 

 

I'll be honest the goodwill on my end for the guys gone. I've endured about as much of him as I can take from a footballing perspective its gonna take more than a win on Saturday to get me off the Kettlewell out bandwagon. 

 

I genuinh am just not a fan of the football we've played since the end of the first spell he had a couple years ago.

[mfc88]

16 hours ago, star sail said:

Yes, it was maybe a little unfair to quote your post to make my point. It was just the comment at the end I was referencing. Everything else you said seemed very reasonable. Apologies.

Na no worries at all mate, no need for apologies 👍 

[Mad Dog]

On 1/20/2025 at 7:39 PM, wellfan said:

So, if robust and colourful debate on the suitability of Kettlewell as manager is too much for some, then that’s not the problem of the forum, it’s your problem. 

Name-calling is not the same thing as debating, not by a long stretch.

[Mad Dog]

On 1/20/2025 at 8:35 PM, wellfan said:

On the topic of respect, I’m sure Kettlewell has said worse things to some referees lately, hence him receiving several yellow and red cards. 

I'm very much on the rugby side of showing respect to referees, so I dislike SK's recent antics. However, are you suggesting that he has been shouting insults at the referees? I'm hundreds of miles away from Fir Park so could not hear what was said but I would suggest that it was along the lines of "that's a free-kick, sir", "there's a head injury", "how's that a yellow card?", etc. Perhaps with a few f*****gs thrown into the mix. I very much doubt that he was calling the referees c**ts and threatening to petrol bomb their houses.

[wellon]

3 hours ago, wunderwell said:

The problem that I see is akin to when Stephen Robinson (who is well regarded) left.

It was clear to see on his final game that he had ran out of ideas on how to fix things.
His rebirth at St Mirren stands him in good stead but he could be in danger there of a similar scenario.

Kettlewell I think should be held in a similar regard, albeit not two cup finals.
The danger yet again though is there is a time when things potentially fizzle out

But Robbo was regularly criticised on here...it's the life of a manager.

There's probably not much to choose between us and St Mirren if we get strongest teams on park.

[ZT_1886]

I'm very much on the rugby side of showing respect to referees, so I dislike SK's recent antics. However, are you suggesting that he has been shouting insults at the referees? I'm hundreds of miles away from Fir Park so could not hear what was said but I would suggest that it was along the lines of "that's a free-kick, sir", "there's a head injury", "how's that a yellow card?", etc. Perhaps with a few f*****gs thrown into the mix. I very much doubt that he was calling the referees c**ts and threatening to petrol bomb their houses.

I understood his frustration on Saturday. Two identical fouls in the middle of the park. First one on the Motherwell player, no yellow card. 30 seconds later, same foul committed the other way round and a yellow card for Motherwell. I’d be raging on the touchline too. Kettlewell complains and gets booked.

Far too often though he goes unnecessarily overboard. Thankfully he won’t pick up any cards this weekend.

[wellon]

On 1/20/2025 at 8:35 PM, wellfan said:

It’s exactly what I mean. I’ve also called him a donkey on here on several occasions and described him as having the tactical nous of a cabbage or something similar.

On the topic of respect, I’m sure Kettlewell has said worse things to some referees lately, hence him receiving several yellow and red cards. 

I was close to him on Saturday,  he didn't say anything particularly disrespectful,  it was more getting in face of 4th official.

I'd rather he was passionate and animated , the officiating in Scotland is a different level of incompetence tbf, as long as he can afford the fines.

[numpty]

4 hours ago, Throughthelaces said:

We should ALWAYS have 11 Nasty buggers on the pitch

If that's ever our actual plan, I'm out for good.

[Throughthelaces]

1 minute ago, numpty said:

If that's ever our actual plan, I'm out for good.

You don't want us to be difficult to play against and a big physical unit? It's what our budget can afford and it gives us a better chance than whatever our current mob are doing

[santheman]

40 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Someone posted on here a few weeks ago and said that they sit near SK and he's always been very vocal - but no different to last year. They felt that he was being unfairly targeted by referees 

That was me.

As a former Referee(many many moons ago) shouts from the touchline comes with the territory and you generally try to ignore it but the point I was making was that since his public outburst about Casey's ordering off he seems to have come more to the attention of the officials. How many cards has he had since then 2/3?.

Did anyone notice that after his yellow card on Saturday for 15mins afterwards every 50/50 seemed to go to St Johnstone?

A coincidence perhaps but that was what I used to do if the voices from the sidelines started to piss me off and believe me it always worked. They would either quieten down or work themselves up to a frenzy and a red card, either way it had the desired effect.

Kettlewell is very vocal but no more vocal than any other manager in the League with maybe a couple of exceptions and I've never heard him swear or be abusive but he certainly likes to challenge decisions that he thinks were wrong which should be his right of course.

 

[numpty]

23 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said:

You don't want us to be difficult to play against and a big physical unit?

Not if that's what it takes. I've seen plenty of Motherwell teams that were difficult to play against, and none of them were full of nasty players or big physical units.

[mfc]

25 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said:

You don't want us to be difficult to play against and a big physical unit? It's what our budget can afford and it gives us a better chance than whatever our current mob are doing

We're a professional football club,the least we should expect is players being comfortable enough to pass the ball too each other,it's a basic skill,budget shouldn't come into it.when it comes to playing through the midfield having your best player out injured is far from ideal but we have slattery who is decent on the ball and andrews looks the same when he was actually giving the ball in the second half at easter road,there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be passing the ball and players moving to give there team mate an option,we do the complete opposite and it can only be down to that's how the manager wants us to play.im all for having some big units in the team at centre half and a target man up front but the constant long ball and playing right Into the oppositions hands is nothing to do with budget.

[Spit_It_Out]

We just don't have any identity about us really but it puzzles me greatly why Kettlewell is convinced the way we are playing is the way forward it's not even about how horrible it is cause I for one wouldn't give a hoot how ugly it was if it was competing and picking up wins but it isn't.

We really are not doing anything in games until the 80th minute but by then we tend to be a goal or two down this is happening week after week after week.

I am expecting more of the same on Saturday cause we know he won't budge on formation  and play to the players strengths we have available.

It's a big game on Saturday pumped out the cup and if we lose to bottom club again the new boards balls are going to be tested cause Sligo part 2 is on the cards.

[Spit_It_Out]

6 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Alexander wasn't sacked though. I don't think Kettlewell will be. 

I was meaning the hostlie crowd its really close to turning that which was the main reason Alexander left cause pretty sure the board at the time would have let him plod along fine and dandy.

Loosing back to back games against a very poor St Johnstone really wont cut it with alot of the fan base.

[Kmcalpin]

2 hours ago, ZT_1886 said:

I understood his frustration on Saturday. Two identical fouls in the middle of the park. First one on the Motherwell player, no yellow card. 30 seconds later, same foul committed the other way round and a yellow card for Motherwell. I’d be raging on the touchline too. Kettlewell complains and gets booked.

Far too often though he goes unnecessarily overboard. Thankfully he won’t pick up any cards this weekend.

In the great scheme of things, the referee's poor performance on Saturday wasn't a huge issue. We had other more pressing issues with which to contend. However, John Beaton was very inconsistent. Yes, I recall that very incident  which had many fans on their feet in protest.  I can't, in all honesty, blame SK for complaining about those decisions.

I'm one of those sad fans who dislike stealing yards at free kicks and throw ins and so take an interest in such decisions. Beaton constantly pulled up our players for stealing yardage at throw ins but blatantly failed to do so  with St Johnstone who were equally as guilty.  

[joewarkfanclub]

17 hours ago, Spit_It_Out said:

I was meaning the hostlie crowd its really close to turning that which was the main reason Alexander left cause pretty sure the board at the time would have let him plod along fine and dandy.

Loosing back to back games against a very poor St Johnstone really wont cut it with alot of the fan base.

I think thats a fair point.

Alexander failed to learn a single thing from the Sligo home game and played exactly the same way in the away leg and got the same result.

If SK does the same, he should expect the wrath of the fans to come down on him.

It would be an absolutely ludicrous thing to do.

[joewarkfanclub]

2 hours ago, wellgirl said:

What happens if we change up the playing style and still lose? 

Fans will still be unhappy. But not on the same scale as they will if we go down doing the same thing and in the same gutless fashion.

Your loyalty to the club and the manager is admirable. But here is a question for you.

At what point does your critical thinking kick in and question whether he is still the right man for the job?

Or does he have your unwavering support regardless of the circumstances?

[wunderwell]

2 hours ago, wellgirl said:

He got booed once (Kettlewell) I've never booed a player or a manager and I've seen a lot of honking football over the last almost four decades 

So we get rid of a manager if the crowd boos them? Once? Surely not 

I've never booed any player or manager.
I suppose it's my own definition of the word supporter. Many will disagree though. Just not for me.
Booed plenty of referees though especially that wee idiot Colin Steven.