Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[wellfan]

You can bet your bottom dollar that if Kettlewell survives this season's crapfest, just like he survived last season's shitfest, we'll find ourselves in yet another shitty situation of his own making come Dec 2025/Jan 2026. What we're witnessing now is a pattern. He needs to be shown the door; if not now, then definitely by the end of this season. 

[wellsince75]

Suspect he’ll get until the end of the season and he probably deserves time as he’s built up sufficient credit .

It’s been kept fairly quiet but we’ve got more points than last season and got to a semi. 😉

in all seriousness he needs to be given time to turn it around - we’ve been brutal since November , time will prove out whether he has what it takes .

[wellfan]

5 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

in all seriousness he needs to be given time to turn it around - we’ve been brutal since November , time will prove out whether he has what it takes .

I don't buy this view anymore and it's why I posted the above about this being a pattern of crises we're now seeing.

He got time during/after the 15 game winless run last season to turn it around, and we ended up finishing 9th thanks to Bair hitting a purple patch. Perhaps he turned things around or we limped over the line. That's up for debate.

We're now into a new season, suffering another bad run and have a humungous and (likely) expensive squad due to his scattergun approach to transfer business, yet folk are again suggesting he be given more time to turn it around. Unfortunately, however, the togetherness of last season isn't there and he's clearly a man rattled. More time to do more damage is looking more and more likely.

At point point do we cut our losses and look for someone else? I'd say now, before either (a) he turns it around, we just about survive, and the cycle repeats itself next season with the budget being blown again to bail him out again, or (b) we're relegated this season as he fails to turn it around. 

The bigger picture is do we keep accepting season after season of streaky runs and crisis management as the new norm under Kettlewell, or would we prefer to seek a bit more consistency in form and an actual footballing identity?!

[wellsince75]

3 minutes ago, wellfan said:

I don't buy this view anymore and it's why I posted the above about this being a pattern of crises we're now seeing.

He got time during/after the 15 game winless run last season to turn it around, and we ended up finishing 9th thanks to Bair hitting a purple patch. Perhaps he turned things around or we limped over the line. That's up for debate.

We're now into a new season, suffering another bad run and have a humungous and (likely) expensive squad due to his scattergun approach to transfer business, yet folk are again suggesting he be given more time to turn it around. Unfortunately, however, the togetherness of last season isn't there and he's clearly a man rattled. More time to do more damage is looking more and more likely.

At point point do we cut our losses and look for someone else? I'd say now, before either (a) he turns it around, we just about survive, and the cycle repeats itself next season with the budget being blown again to bail him out again, or (b) we're relegated this season as he fails to turn it around. 

The bigger picture is do we keep accepting season after season of streaky runs and crisis management as the new norm under Kettlewell, or would we prefer to seek a bit more consistency in form and an actual footballing identity?!

I agree with many of your points and like you mentioned the togetherness of last season isn’t as apparent. 
 

also agree with signing policy - it’s been really poor and honestly I feel like this since Dawes . There’s been the odd couple of signings but in the main shocking .

where we differ is picking the time for change . My thoughts are we don’t have much to lose be retaining until end of the season . By then we’ll know if we’re better or worse , as annoyed as I am I’d like to see how the season plays out . 
 

As a club who are doing reasonably well over the season with horrendous injuries I think we’d be wise to see how the next few months go , at worst I think we’ll be 10th 

[wellfan]

8 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

where we differ is picking the time for change . My thoughts are we don’t have much to lose be retaining until end of the season .

Fair enough. I think we have a lot to lose in terms of ticket sales if this shit continues this season. The bond between club and fans could also be damaged. Future season ticket sales may also be impacted.  

[wellsince75]

3 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Fair enough. I think we have a lot to lose in terms of ticket sales if this shit continues this season. The bond between club and fans could also be damaged. Future season ticket sales may also be impacted.  

That’s a solid point . If it continues to be as poor and the club does nothing then yes can see that happening .

that being said as a club I think we’ve always tried to do the right thing and suspect action would be taken 

[wellfan]

1 minute ago, wellsince75 said:

that being said as a club I think we’ve always tried to do the right thing and suspect action would be taken 

We’ve got a different Board now, so perhaps their approach could be different. 

[Spit_It_Out]

7 minutes ago, wellfan said:

We’ve got a different Board now, so perhaps their approach could be different. 

The time has came and went for them to do something tbh instead they let him probably use the last of the funds so pretty clear where they stand.

So it is what it is the end of the day we are stuck in quicksand slowly going downwards.

[Throughthelaces]

I'd like to think that he gets the county game and if were me I'd be telling him anything less than a win against County and Dundee and he's out the door.

[grizzlyg]

We have over 4000 season ticket holders and obviously say probably about 50 regular posters on here but I am struggling to find anyone still backing Kettlewell.   All the ones that have defended him including myself have now lost faith and that interview was just bizarre considering in middle of January 1700 fans paid a lot of money to watch that performance yet we don't have a clue when it comes to management.

If he had been at another club he would have been binned last year but they stood by him and yes he turned it round but there has been no improvement and a style of football that makes Alexander look like Rinus Michels ( one for the oldies).

He is employed and no one wants to see anyone out of work but he will be fine, he will get another gig and loads of media work though sportscene might have to become a 3 hour show!!.

Again if he can turn it round I will be on here apologising but I think we are beyond that stage.

COYW

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, wellsince75 said:

My thoughts are we don’t have much to lose be retaining until end of the season . By then we’ll know if we’re better or worse , as annoyed as I am I’d like to see how the season plays out .

I agree with Wellfan's comments about the detrimental effect on ticket sales and the bond between club and fans. However, I'd also pose the question what if we retain SK until the end of the season, despite continuing poor results, and we end up in 11th spot or even worse? I think we have a lot to lose through inaction. All that said, no-one knows the precise optimum time to call it a day. Its a judgement call. 

[wunderwell]

2 hours ago, wellfan said:

We’ve got a different Board now, so perhaps their approach could be different. 

So as 2023/2024 went along me and you had a bit of a ding dong about Kettlewell.
In the short term in my opinion I was correct by backing him, things did turn around and things ended up ok (no more no less)
I will give you credit though for spotting a larger long term viewpoint about Kettlewell that I was blind too and admit that you were correct. I tend to back longer term so I will concede my friend that you were correct overall!!!
Don't ask me to repeat!!!

My question for you is this though are the flaws larger than Kettlewell?
Who is authorising this bloated squad? Are there others in the mix regarding our choice of players?
Do you feel we need fresh blood on recruitment?

[texanwellfan]

Perhaps once we get the majority of the full squad back things may get better. Having said that, I think he could have done a lot better with what he has available currently. 

[smiddy]

20 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

Perhaps once we get the majority of the full squad back things may get better. Having said that, I think he could have done a lot better with what he has available currently. 

What he has avaiable currantly texan 

are on his watch 

[wunderwell]

3 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

The thing is though - we are small in numbers here - and what people post might be representative of the wider fan base - but it might not. 

I get that the team were booed at the last two home games and I also get that it's a very tight league - but we aren't the only team on a poor run right now. Aberdeen are. St Mirren are. Killie are. 

I also completely get every single person's reservations about him - even if my views don't particularly align with theirs. If we do sack him now another manager is going to have to get results from the same group of players -and that obviously can happen as we saw when he took over from Hammell 

The next few games will obviously dictate what happens off the park 

More than happy that there are contrasting views.

For me it's akin to the fateful last games of Robinson and the time is right for a change.

[fizoxy]

19 minutes ago, wunderwell said:

Who is authorising this bloated squad? Are there others in the mix regarding our choice of players?
Do you feel we need fresh blood on recruitment?

The answer to the first question is pretty easy, we've had a crazy number of injuries this season, and we need a matchday squad. If we didn't bring in replacements for the injured players, this place would be in meltdown. Thankfully we have a lot of players out of contract and a large number of loans, so the bloat will be gone soon enough. Also, piss would boil if we just brought in a couple in January. How that window is fetishized is a problem in itself. 

As with all clubs, our recruitment has been hit or miss. I'd love to see how we are (objectively) compared to other teams at our level when it comes to that. We tend to just see the good players the other teams sign and focus on our own shite.

We got money for KVV, Bair, Sol, woolery, got a solid 2 years out of spittal, somehow got biereth for 6 months, and have generally done well innthe loan market, particularly for full backs. There's a fair amount of dross there, but I'm not sure if that's more than normal. Also, when you're signing replacements for replacements, you're naturally not getting the best.

Our first choice lineup looks pretty good, and it's a shame we will never see it. Add AP, Miller, Seddon, and McGinn to this team and most of us would be pretty happy. 

I will say, our midfield recruitment this season was piss poor, relying on multiple players with a poor injury history, another who still had another six months out injured to go, and an 18 year old we were sure to be selling. 

I'm more concerned about the injuries, but even there, there has been a number of contact injuries from games, which are hard to prevent. Signing known injured players and accumulating injuries from training is more of a problem. 

[fizoxy]

23 hours ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

Who would make the decision to sack him? The board or the WS?

The board, who have WS representatives on it. 

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, wunderwell said:

So as 2023/2024 went along me and you had a bit of a ding dong about Kettlewell.
In the short term in my opinion I was correct by backing him, things did turn around and things ended up ok (no more no less)
I will give you credit though for spotting a larger long term viewpoint about Kettlewell that I was blind too and admit that you were correct. I tend to back longer term so I will concede my friend that you were correct overall!!!
Don't ask me to repeat!!!

My question for you is this though are the flaws larger than Kettlewell?
Who is authorising this bloated squad? Are there others in the mix regarding our choice of players?
Do you feel we need fresh blood on recruitment?

On your first point, there’s no need to concede right or wrong. We both had our opinions at that time and that’s that, but fair play regardless. Things have moved on. 

On your questions, I would say that the recruitment issues are as big a problem as the manager, and I’ve said my piece elsewhere on Daws being a big part of the problem.

In short, I don’t really think we have any sort of logical recruitment strategy. It’s all a bit scattergun. Lots of gambles. Plucking players from here, there, and everywhere. And with a heavy reliance on loans to get us out of messes, which sees us continually having to rebuild once they leave. It also appears that Kettlewell is perhaps being given a little more rope than other managers with similar sized budgets would get. I.e. he knows he’ll always get away with it and be bailed out  

However, we do have a new Board in place, who are different to those in place during the 2023/24 saga, although they have just emptied the clubs pockets for Kettlewell, so who knows what’s next on their agenda.

My feeling is we need to stop promoting from within, unless it’s well-justified, and try to adopt a longer term strategy, which includes developing and integrating more of the young boys instead of constantly wasting money on developing other teams’ young players through our over reliance on loans. All of this will require a strategic overhaul of the management, coaching, recruitment, and academy departments, at least. Because at the moment, it’s all just firefighting and hoping that some of the expensive shit thrown at the wall sticks every year.

We’re a fan owned club and should demand something better for the present and future of our club. 

[star sail]

2 hours ago, wunderwell said:

So as 2023/2024 went along me and you had a bit of a ding dong about Kettlewell.
In the short term in my opinion I was correct by backing him, things did turn around and things ended up ok (no more no less)
I will give you credit though for spotting a larger long term viewpoint about Kettlewell that I was blind too and admit that you were correct. I tend to back longer term so I will concede my friend that you were correct overall!!!
Don't ask me to repeat!!!

My question for you is this though are the flaws larger than Kettlewell?
Who is authorising this bloated squad? Are there others in the mix regarding our choice of players?
Do you feel we need fresh blood on recruitment?

I think you are being hard on yourself here and giving Wellfan and those who share his views too much credit.

On not sacking Kettlewell after the winless run,you were right, he was wrong. History has now proven this to be true. The proof being that the fortunes turned around last season and we did not get relegated. Like it or not that is a significant marker of success for a team like Motherwell.

We have not had a manager leave Motherwell on his own terms since Craig Brown in 2010. In the 15 years since, every manager has eventually been sacked and on average lasts about 2 years. 

It is easy to back the sack the manager horse. It is the form horse by some considerate distance and these stats will be mirrored in teams up and down the SPL. 

Kettlewell is approaching two years in charge now. Probability alone tells us his time is nearly up. Being a football manager in this division is very difficult and they have a very short sell buy date.

It does not take a visionary to predict that a manager will be sacked. Hang in there with that message and 9 times out of 10 you will be proven correct often sooner rather than later.

[wellfan]

2 hours ago, star sail said:

The proof being that the fortunes turned around last season and we did not get relegated. Like it or not that is a significant marker of success for a team like Motherwell.

A significant marker for success? I thought that not getting relegated was the absolute minimum aim of the job each season, particularly given that we’ve now been in the top flight for 4 decades. I’d suggest that a significant marker for success for a manager would be winning a domestic cup and/or European qualification. To suggest otherwise really is a race to the bottom in terms of defining significant achievements. 

[star sail]

5 hours ago, wellfan said:

A significant marker for success? I thought that not getting relegated was the absolute minimum aim of the job each season, particularly given that we’ve now been in the top flight for 4 decades. I’d suggest that a significant marker for success for a manager would be winning a domestic cup and/or European qualification. To suggest otherwise really is a race to the bottom in terms of defining significant achievements. 

Celtic, Aberdeen and Motherwell are the only three teams to have maintained top division status over the last 40 years.

That is a significant achievement. 

[wellfan]

12 minutes ago, star sail said:

Celtic, Aberdeen and Motherwell are the only three teams to have maintained top division status over the last 40 years.

That is a significant achievement. 

If a Motherwell manager is only ever tasked with achieving top flight status and nothing else, and is continually rewarded a new contract for delivering that ‘significant achievement’, then we will see no progress as a club in terms of any other goals. It’s an approach that encourages and legitimises a race to stagnation, at all costs, and asks nothing more of the manager and his squad. But if that’s your cup of tea, so be it. 

[Spiderpig]

12 minutes ago, wellfan said:

If a Motherwell manager is only ever tasked with achieving top flight status and nothing else, and is continually rewarded a new contract for delivering that ‘significant achievement’, then we will see no progress as a club in terms of any other goals. It’s an approach that encourages and legitimises a race to stagnation, at all costs, and asks nothing more of the manager and his squad. But if that’s your cup of tea, so be it. 

What are your other goals then, where do you see Motherwell aiming for, is nearly 40 years in the top division, numerous European qualifications, several cup finals and 1 trophy to our name not enough for a club of our size?

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

What are your other goals then, where do you see Motherwell aiming for, is nearly 40 years in the top division, numerous European qualifications, several cup finals and 1 trophy to our name not enough for a club of our size?

What you describe are good achievements and I’ve outlined previously what I see as realistic expectations for Motherwell. My point is that do you truly see us achieving anything more than 10th place and a blown budget under Kettlewell every season? The League Cup semi was a red herring as we were shite and it was a pretty easy run to it. He’s a busted flush and truly incapable of learning and developing. It’s a case of continual stagnation and crisis management under him. 

[Kmcalpin]

An article in the Herald this morning which is worth reading.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/24886398.motherwell-fans-turning-stuart-kettlewell/

The best media summing up I've come across was by Craggs on the BBC on Saturday. Basically our league position & semi final appearance are at odds with our stats, fan unrest and current bad run. This is because we got a bit lucky earlier but now teams have worked us out and we have been found out.