2023/24 ins & outs discussion

[Kmcalpin]

10 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I would like to think that means we have a striker lined because if not we are frighteningly light up top 

Yes. We have  2 senior strikers, at least one of whom isn't a traditional goalscorer.  We also have one young inexperienced lad, maybe not at the required level yet. This deficiency has been reflected in our results so far in the League Cup, through a relative lack of goals. 

[Throughthelaces]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Yes. We have  2 senior strikers, at least one of whom isn't a traditional goalscorer.  We also have one young inexperienced lad, maybe not at the required level yet. This deficiency has been reflected in our results so far in the League Cup, through a relative lack of goals. 

We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games and kept two clean sheets. Where you expecting us to batter everyone 6-0? We need some new bodies in absolutely but I wouldn’t say we’ve a lack of goals for me a striker a midfielder and a cb would all be good business. 

[grizzlyg]

16 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said:

We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games and kept two clean sheets. Where you expecting us to batter everyone 6-0? We need some new bodies in absolutely but I wouldn’t say we’ve a lack of goals for me a striker a midfielder and a cb would all be good business. 

5 of those goals have came against a league 1 and league 2 side combined.  

Very early days and I am not going to make rash judgement but Obika and Wilkinson don't look like a double act that are going to score lots in the SPFL .  Spittal and Slattery I hope can chip in with a fair few goals but we definitely need some more signings in those areas.  I trust SK to address it

[steelboy]

21 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said:

We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games and kept two clean sheets. Where you expecting us to batter everyone 6-0? We need some new bodies in absolutely but I wouldn’t say we’ve a lack of goals for me a striker a midfielder and a cb would all be good business. 

Queens Park put 5 by Elgin last night. 

[stv]

14 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I was as excited as anyone when we got McKinstry back on loan. I felt it was a bit of a coup for us and a chance, that had been denied us, to see a player who we had developed and was touted as having a lot of talent.

The reality was a bit underwhelming. The boy did okay and showed flashes of ability, but he was nowhere near the player I thought he might be.

He did get unlucky with the change of manager, but there was a reason SK went for Spittal ahead of McKinstry and hasnt looked to get him back after his contract at Leeds expired.

To be fair he was in a team that had gave up and was about the only one who looked to be trying when he played. May have been different in a better team. Should have completed his apprenticeship with us to get games under his belt then moved on ,don’t blame him for moving for better wages tho. Took the opportunity like other youngsters have and like them hasn’t really worked out for him.

[weeyin]

44 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Queens Park put 5 by Elgin last night. 

Did they start 3 academy players and play them in Elgin?

[stv]

4 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Yes. We have  2 senior strikers, at least one of whom isn't a traditional goalscorer.  We also have one young inexperienced lad, maybe not at the required level yet. This deficiency has been reflected in our results so far in the League Cup, through a relative lack of goals. 

Obika is a hold up man and a ball winner no really an out n out  striker we really need a foil for him that can run and put the ball in the net, age not an issue . That’s easier said than done all the teams in Britain are looking for one of those.

[dennyc]

22 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Did they start 3 academy players and play them in Elgin?

I have no ideas regards team selection of our opponents but strangely I find myself agreeing with Steelboy.

Clearly no cause for panic, but our inability to score goals and our defending in Dumfries may well lose us a seeding in the next round. And that is likely to have a huge impact on our progress to the money making ties.

Having attended every match so far I would award us pass marks because of the points gathered but no more.  Performances have been adequate but no more. Yes there are reasons for that as you indicate but we will have to improve and I am sure we will. But the current squad is lacking.

It was worrying for me that we started at Dumfries with the majority of those defenders that got us into the mess we were in at the start of last season. In fact, the only one that perhaps performed during that spell was rested. Kelly. And I accept that Kettlewell needs games to assess players. A different formation granted and a more tactically aware manager also a bonus. But we definitely have work to do

 

[davkel]

Think you can safely say that the defence on the pitch at QOS won’t be seen again …

[davkel]

Just now, davkel said:

Think you can safely say that the defence on the pitch at QOS won’t be seen again …

 

[Onthefringes]

7 hours ago, stv said:

To be fair he was in a team that had gave up and was about the only one who looked to be trying when he played. May have been different in a better team. Should have completed his apprenticeship with us to get games under his belt then moved on ,don’t blame him for moving for better wages tho. Took the opportunity like other youngsters have and like them hasn’t really worked out for him.

At what point do they serve these apprenticeships? Not that it’s an exact science, player development has evolved. I’m not sure ‘there’s no substitute for first team games’ is a barometer of success.

[Coatsy]

WE have been a club that promotes youth but over the past few years they have not been integrated into the first team at the right rate i agree that the only way to progress and see the if the player has got it is to play them and usually after a dozen games or so you can tell if they are going to make it. Or need to be moved on to a lower level.

Just look at the recent real successs they all looked well out their depth in the first few games but quickly developed into proper players.  McFadyen, Turnbull, Campbell.

Lower level  happy to let go Scott ( left too early but we got a decent transfer), Cornelius, Erwin.

Max Johnston was a strange one we were happy to loan out without really giving him a run in our firsts team have to feel had he been managed differently he would still have been our player or we would have a few million in the bank

[stv]

2 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

At what point do they serve these apprenticeships? Not that it’s an exact science, player development has evolved. I’m not sure ‘there’s no substitute for first team games’ is a barometer of success.

Apprenticeships , as in real the lives of some of us common folks is where you learn your trade build up experience and move thru the system learning so you can progress . Some do it quicker than others . Thats the trick to find out when they are ready to step up i suppose . The better the apprenticeship the better the tradesman. 

[Onthefringes]

17 minutes ago, stv said:

Apprenticeships , as in real the lives of some of us common folks is where you learn your trade build up experience and move thru the system learning so you can progress . Some do it quicker than others . Thats the trick to find out when they are ready to step up i suppose . The better the apprenticeship the better the tradesman. 

Well aware how an apprenticeship works, doesn’t really answer the question though.

[stv]

44 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Well aware how an apprenticeship works, doesn’t really answer the question though.

Answer is in there somewhere I’m sure.

[David]

6 hours ago, stv said:

To be fair he was in a team that had gave up and was about the only one who looked to be trying when he played. May have been different in a better team. Should have completed his apprenticeship with us to get games under his belt then moved on ,don’t blame him for moving for better wages tho. Took the opportunity like other youngsters have and like them hasn’t really worked out for him.

You say that he should have "completed his apprenticeship with us" then moved on, as if it's a given that a club like Leeds would come calling again a few years later?

As I said previously, that's not how professional football works. It's not a three or four step program. 

What if he'd stayed with us and not made the grade? Or run into a similar issue as the one he faced when here on loan? A manager who didn't fancy him and a team that was shit? We've happily cut loose players like Corey O’Donnell, Daniel Hunter, Kian Speirs and Logan Dunachie without a second thought. What's to say McKinstry wouldn't have ended up suffering a similar fate? 

Nah, when a club like Leeds come calling, you make the move. Any "apprenticeship" he could complete playing in a Motherwell team in the SPFL is no better than working with coaches like Marcelo Bielsa and training alongside the kind of players Leeds had, in the facilities that Leeds train at.

Football is a short career. You make the money when you can, because once it's all over and done with, it's the money that will be paying your mortgage or setting you up for the next stage of your life.

[stv]

16 hours ago, David said:

You say that he should have "completed his apprenticeship with us" then moved on, as if it's a given that a club like Leeds would come calling again a few years later?

As I said previously, that's not how professional football works. It's not a three or four step program. 

What if he'd stayed with us and not made the grade? Or run into a similar issue as the one he faced when here on loan? A manager who didn't fancy him and a team that was shit? We've happily cut loose players like Corey O’Donnell, Daniel Hunter, Kian Speirs and Logan Dunachie without a second thought. What's to say McKinstry wouldn't have ended up suffering a similar fate? 

Nah, when a club like Leeds come calling, you make the move. Any "apprenticeship" he could complete playing in a Motherwell team in the SPFL is no better than working with coaches like Marcelo Bielsa and training alongside the kind of players Leeds had, in the facilities that Leeds train at.

Football is a short career. You make the money when you can, because once it's all over and done with, it's the money that will be paying your mortgage or setting you up for the next stage of your life.

Glad that i now know how professional football works.  Looks like a crystal ball would be handy as well.

[David]

Just now, stv said:

Glad that i now know how professional football works.  Looks like a crystal ball would be handy as well.

Well, a player would need a crystal ball to know if they'd still have clubs wanting to sign them after they've knocked them back previously to remain at Fir Park to complete their "apprenticeship."

[gilmour]

 

2 incoming tomorrow.  Loans  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mika_Biereth

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Bair

[Coatsy]

The Canadian was with St J and scored 1 in 33 games surely not  only 8 goals in 87 games

 

 

 

[AllyMax]

15 minutes ago, gilmour said:

 

2 incoming tomorrow.  Loans  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mika_Biereth

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Bair

I confidently predict both of them will be labeled as 'shite' prior to playing for us and missing any chances in their first appearances will see them promoted to 'wage thief'.

[SteelmaninOZ]

16 minutes ago, AllyMax said:

I confidently predict both of them will be labeled as 'shite' prior to playing for us and missing any chances in their first appearances will see them promoted to 'wage thief'.

Over to you Steelboy 

[steelboy]

St Johnstone rejects. 

We are hitting a new low. 

[MelvinBragg]

22 minutes ago, Coatsy said:

The Canadian was with St J and scored 1 in 33 games surely not  only 8 goals in 87 games

 

 

 

Of those 33 games, only 8 were starts.. Not that I'm saying those are great numbers but it's a clearer picture. Had a quick glance at some of his appearances. A fair few were after 70 minutes, some after 80 minutes. In a St Johnstone team that didn't create much...

[texanwellfan]

Looks like we are trying emulate the old welsh strike force of the late 60’s with all these tall strikers. Let’s hope they turn out as good as Ron and Wyn!