2023/24 ins & outs discussion

[smiddy]

9 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

That's it mate just don't have the answer to that it's all a risk really but all the development fees we get we should be getting transfer fees.

I feel blessed we had Campbell for ages and got to see Turnbull come good feel like we will miss out on seeing Johnston in a Well shirt for long which is kinda gutting. 

I have a feeling he might end up Aberdeen just have feeling old AB will be sniffing around that like a rat lol.

I think having an old man as an ex footballer might have not helped our cause in contract negotiations either pretty sure he will have enough contacts to get him a better deal elsewhere.

I mean some of the clubs apparently looking at him down south even playing in the development leagues down in England  is some standard to test yourself it's rammed with talent.

yip its rammed with talent as you say        but as usual we dont seem to get loaned any        we play spurs  development team and were maybe thinking we could get a loan of a wee nuget here                feck aw       all they ever gave us was john  feckin   henry      remember him               oh tae feck a wish a didnt  did big eck not say words to the effect of " he could be the new klinsman "  well he was nearly right the boy was never aff his erse

[Yabba's Turd]

I think Eck meant klinsman kept him out the Spurs team

 

[grizzlyg]

36 minutes ago, smiddy said:

yip its rammed with talent as you say        but as usual we dont seem to get loaned any        we play spurs  development team and were maybe thinking we could get a loan of a wee nuget here                feck aw       all they ever gave us was john  feckin   henry      remember him               oh tae feck a wish a didnt  did big eck not say words to the effect of " he could be the new klinsman "  well he was nearly right the boy was never aff his erse

Cheers smiddy , I can't sleep tonight now as I remember we paid £200,000 for hendry!! Jeez

[David]

16 hours ago, Coatsy said:

Part of the point is Ramsay and Hickey were playing for the first team not loaned out, if he was given a proper chance why would he not have wanted to be tied down it happens at other clubs its a pity you can't see it

You're assuming that he was good enough back then? When he went to QOTS last season was he looking head and shoulders above the rest of the players there? And the competition in the Championship? I don't recall much demand for him to be our starting full back this season, and I don't recall any shock or dismay when he was loaned out to Cove either. I remember a few voices saying he should be kept as back-up, but that's hardly the kind of chat surrounding a player who's a stick-on to become a regular in Serie A.

It was obvious very early on that Ramsey and Hickey were top drawer talent. The closest we've had to that was Turnbull.

I have a feeling that Johnston has always been viewed as someone who could potentially go on and become a player, but who was never the type who was turning heads early on. Sure, he's done pretty well since January, but I'm not sure he was that good that the club should have been offering him the type of money he couldn't refuse a year ago or so.

It could be that he's suddenly found his stride in the last six months or so. That happens, and he now has every right to hold off on a new deal and see what's out there. 

Or, it could be that he never intended to sign a new deal with us at all? Maybe he's always planned to ride this initial deal out and then see what's on offer?

There's a whole lot of variables involved in these situations, so it's unfair to blame the club without knowing how it has all played out.

[pretzel]

12 hours ago, smiddy said:

john  feckin   henry      remember him      

Sadly I do. I remember thinking that we had won a watch with that one as he had scored for Spurs against the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal, I think most felt that getting consistent football would help him realise his potential. When he joined us he netted a double not long after arriving against Hibs at Easter Road as we got beat 4-2 and it took a few years for him to score again, in fact his next goal would be his last. It's honestly hard to believe that Alex McLeish spent over 2 mill on players.

[Stuwell2]

17 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

100% agree but how much do we pay them? £4k a week? Maybe £5k or what about 6k? For us to fork out that kind of cash we'd need to be damn sure they were the real deal. 

For us to fork out what is 2 or 3 times what we pay our top / senior professionals on any youngster, no matter how good he is, I suspect would cause a riot at the club - probably most other clubs as well.  
You could try to work out some sort of agreement with the rest of the squad that when he’s sold they get a percentage of the fee but I’d think even that would be too difficult to work out and a non starter. 
 

[grizzlyg]

5 hours ago, pretzel said:

Sadly I do. I remember thinking that we had won a watch with that one as he had scored for Spurs against the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal, I think most felt that getting consistent football would help him realise his potential. When he joined us he netted a double not long after arriving against Hibs at Easter Road as we got beat 4-2 and it took a few years for him to score again, in fact his next goal would be his last. It's honestly hard to believe that Alex McLeish spent over 2 mill on players.

To bring out my old Morecambe and wise gag about McLeish's £2 million ..he spent the right amount of money....but not necessarily....on the right players!! 🤣🤣

[clueless]

We used to refer to a million quid as "3 McSkimmings".

[grizzlyg]

2 minutes ago, clueless said:

We used to refer to a million quid as "3 McSkimmings".

Now that is scary!!! That fee was bonkers.  If we had signed him for say £100k you could say not bad business but over £300k crazy, mind you let's not mention the Spencer fee....and we got her haw money back as sell on

[alanos]

Jeeze Oh, have we not signed anyone yet?

[santheman]

1 hour ago, alanos said:

Jeeze Oh, have we not signed anyone yet?

The only rumour I've heard (and that's from couple of Rangers supporting mates) is that Scott Arfield has signed a PCA with us.

Cannae see it myself but they seem to think it's a goer.

[wellfan]

55 minutes ago, santheman said:

The only rumour I've heard (and that's from couple of Rangers supporting mates) is that Scott Arfield has signed a PCA with us.

Cannae see it myself but they seem to think it's a goer.

Although his contract expires this Spring, he's currently on about £10K a week. With that said, surely it's not a goer. 

[grizzlyg]

1 hour ago, santheman said:

The only rumour I've heard (and that's from couple of Rangers supporting mates) is that Scott Arfield has signed a PCA with us.

Cannae see it myself but they seem to think it's a goer.

Would be very surprised unless a massive cut in wages and maybe a coaching role involved

[Spiderpig]

10 hours ago, wellfan said:

Although his contract expires this Spring, he's currently on about £10K a week. With that said, surely it's not a goer. 

Sometimes a player realises that he's not going to get another big money contract / move as their contracts run down so why not move to us, might be a coaching job on offer longer term.

[David]

20 hours ago, wellfan said:

Although his contract expires this Spring, he's currently on about £10K a week. With that said, surely it's not a goer. 

Aye, but he's on £10K a week under his current contract. That doesn't mean he's going to be earning that in any deal he signs as a now 34 year old player, does it? 

He'll have offers on the table for sure, but there will be a lot of factors involved, such as his family being located in Central Scotland for the past five years now and so on. 

It wouldn't be a "cut" in wages as some have said, because he isn't deciding to come to us mid-contract for less money. His current deal is expiring, so it'll be fresh terms based on his age, fitness, and how he's done in the past year since he signed his extension with Rangers. 

[mfc]

I can see arfield ending up at hearts rather than the likes of us but he would be a good signing for us,even if it just meant the cunt wouldn't get to score against us.

[Ped_MFC]

Over the last 5 or 10 years we've been told that a good few of the teams at our level have struggled to compete with National League sides when it comes to signing players. It looks like the English FA are planning on changes to non-league players contracts (including the National League) that will restrict the wages clubs need to pay them when injured. Wonder if that might make a few players reconsider their next career move if there is a risk of dropping to a hundred quid a week if they pick up an injury.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65068778

[weeyin]

4 hours ago, Ped_MFC said:

Over the last 5 or 10 years we've been told that a good few of the teams at our level have struggled to compete with National League sides when it comes to signing players. It looks like the English FA are planning on changes to non-league players contracts (including the National League) that will restrict the wages clubs need to pay them when injured. Wonder if that might make a few players reconsider their next career move if there is a risk of dropping to a hundred quid a week if they pick up an injury.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65068778

I see the non-league players are quoted as "Football is our livelihood and the sole mechanism for financially supporting our families."

While I'm all for anyone getting a livable wage, the fact that players can support themselves and their families on a non-league salary shows how much some of these clubs are spending in an effort to make it into the senior divisions.

Non-league wages used to be a nice wee supplement to your day job.

I'm guessing more and more clubs are digging themselves into financial holes.

[steelboy]

There's 60 million people living in England so I don't think they should be limited to 92 full time clubs. 

Looking at the names of teams in the National League you have the likes of Torquay, Gateshead, Yeovil, Barnet, York, Halifax etc. 

[weeyin]

12 minutes ago, steelboy said:

There's 60 million people living in England so I don't think they should be limited to 92 full time clubs. 

Looking at the names of teams in the National League you have the likes of Torquay, Gateshead, Yeovil, Barnet, York, Halifax etc. 

It's not about limiting anything. It's about what the clubs can support.

If you're averaging 1000 people at a game (like Gateshead) at £10 or £15 quid top price, then it's a bit of a stretch to pay all the squad a wage that will let them support a family.

There are some exceptions of course for the teams that are trying to bankroll their way into the top flight.

[Spiderpig]

14 hours ago, weeyin said:

 

 

I'm guessing more and more clubs are digging themselves into financial holes.

That's the main problem in England the finances are unsustainable the premiership teams paying ridiculous amounts of wages each week and its the same in every other league, remember a few seasons ago, non league at the time Salford City were allegedly paying Adam Rooney 5k a week ffs. God knows how clubs like that survive yes they probably have bigger crowds than some Scottish Premiership teams but most of the clubs must be hanging by a thread, they probably all have rich owners but even then there has to be limits.

[steelboy]

1 hour ago, weeyin said:

It's not about limiting anything. It's about what the clubs can support.

If you're averaging 1000 people at a game (like Gateshead) at £10 or £15 quid top price, then it's a bit of a stretch to pay all the squad a wage that will let them support a family.

There are some exceptions of course for the teams that are trying to bankroll their way into the top flight.

It's not about the amount of money though. There's plenty of people out there supporting families on the National Living Wage. 

The players point here is that if they get injured doing their job their outgoings don't change but the FA want their wages to be cut to statutory sick pay after 12 weeks. That's obviously unacceptable given the extremely high rate of at work injuries in the football industry and the fact that the clubs obviously don't make any adjustments to job roles to allow people with medical injuries to come back to work.

Football can't act like it's a normal business when they are placing demands on their worker's bodies that would be illegal in most jobs. 

[grizzlyg]

Alan Archibald our new development coach, looks like he taken over the role Kettlewell had 

[MJC]

13 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

Alan Archibald our new development coach, looks like he taken over the role Kettlewell had 

That’s our next manager confirmed then. 🙄

[Spit_It_Out]

Just curious as I usually switch off when Internationals are on but do we have a Chief Exec yet?Seems to be all quiet on that front unless I have missed the appointment.