SteelmaninOZ Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 The gaffer said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 36 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: I think Kelly's problem is where would he go? St Mirren look as though they'll need a keeper next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsince75 Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 37 minutes ago, SteelmaninOZ said: The gaffer said can't see Liam being dropped after the comments made by SK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 3 hours ago, David said: I think it's more than loyalty at play. The one thing Kettlewell has had in our bad run of winless games is the full support of the squad. We've seen what can happen to managers when they piss off the majority of the squad or even just the influential dressing room leaders. He's had that support because he's played it very smart regarding squad harmony. Like him or not, Liam Kelly is a huge presence in that dressing room. He's the captain for a reason. From what I've heard, the players rate him very highly, and to remove him from the team would basically be Kettlewell signing his own P45 at this stage. We've seen at Ross County how far some man-management skills can take you. Absolutely nothing Derek Adams said about his squad was incorrect. But because of how he handled it, the players pretty much downed tools from day one. He was never getting that squad back onside. Kettlewell has retained the squad behind him partly because of how vocal he's been in support of a very influential player who's having a tough time. He's been incredibly smart in that regard, and it's why we're sitting where we are in the league instead of lower down the table. Look at the managers who work with Kelly regularly. Kettlewell and Clarke. Now, on form alone, Kelly should be nowhere near the Scotland squad. But he is. Why? Because Clarke knows that a third-choice keeper is likely never going to get game time, but again, in that dressing room, Kelly is well-liked and respected by the other players in the Scotland squad. He adds a ton in squad harmony, and we've seen how far that has gotten Scotland. There's a method to the madness, basically. In my opinion. You've made this argument before. And I agree with you up to a point. You just need to look at Derek Adams and Ross County to see what happens when you throw your players under the bus. But its a fine line to tred if a players mistakes keep costing you points. You have to carry out a profit & loss analysis and look at your alternatives. Personally, if Oxborough was a credible alternative, then I would have reached the point where Id be putting him in. SK obviously feels that Kelly does more good than bad and that Oxborough isnt good enough for our level, otherwise the scales would have tipped in his favour. Its a big call, and I hope it pays off for all parties. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, wellsince75 said: can't see Liam being dropped after the comments made by SK. I dont see it either. To be honest he should have been dropped/rested/taken out the spotlight back in November. Greenock aside, he hasnt been too bad the last set of games. I thought he had turned the corner and was hopefully coming into some form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, David said: St Mirren look as though they'll need a keeper next season. Aye but i think they need one that can catch a ball. So that rules him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 3 hours ago, grizzlyg said: I think Kelly's problem is where would he go? I think he would struggle to be first choice elsewhere in SPL or down south. On a big wage so if he didn't sign a new deal I wouldn't be too bothered but also if he did re-sign I wouldn't be upset either but I feel would need to be on reduced terms which I would not expect him to sign which I couldn't disagree with Would you take a pay cut when you had a bad year?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purestate Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 6 hours ago, David said: I think it's more than loyalty at play. The one thing Kettlewell has had in our bad run of winless games is the full support of the squad. We've seen what can happen to managers when they piss off the majority of the squad or even just the influential dressing room leaders. He's had that support because he's played it very smart regarding squad harmony. Like him or not, Liam Kelly is a huge presence in that dressing room. He's the captain for a reason. From what I've heard, the players rate him very highly, and to remove him from the team would basically be Kettlewell signing his own P45 at this stage. We've seen at Ross County how far some man-management skills can take you. Absolutely nothing Derek Adams said about his squad was incorrect. But because of how he handled it, the players pretty much downed tools from day one. He was never getting that squad back onside. Kettlewell has retained the squad behind him partly because of how vocal he's been in support of a very influential player who's having a tough time. He's been incredibly smart in that regard, and it's why we're sitting where we are in the league instead of lower down the table. Look at the managers who work with Kelly regularly. Kettlewell and Clarke. Now, on form alone, Kelly should be nowhere near the Scotland squad. But he is. Why? Because Clarke knows that a third-choice keeper is likely never going to get game time, but again, in that dressing room, Kelly is well-liked and respected by the other players in the Scotland squad. He adds a ton in squad harmony, and we've seen how far that has gotten Scotland. There's a method to the madness, basically. In my opinion. Totally agree. Also the keeper is probably the toughest position on the pitch. Any mistake is more than likely to result in a goal against or, at least, be amplified in fans eyes. Not sure if people saw Becker and van Dijk the other week - total train wreck from players on a totally different level - shit happens. It’s how pros react to adversity that matters and, in my eyes, most of our squad are doing their level best. Who knows it may not be good enough by the end of the season but I’m a glass 8/12ths full kind of guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, purestate said: Totally agree. Also the keeper is probably the toughest position on the pitch. Any mistake is more than likely to result in a goal against or, at least, be amplified in fans eyes. Not sure if people saw Becker and van Dijk the other week - total train wreck from players on a totally different level - shit happens. It’s how pros react to adversity that matters and, in my eyes, most of our squad are doing their level best. Who knows it may not be good enough by the end of the season but I’m a glass 8/12ths full kind of guy. I agree with you on the goalkeeper comment. It's a between a rock and a hard place role to fill. However, if you genuinely think most of our squad are doing their level best after watching the Morton game, can I have at least 8/12ths of a glass of whatever you've been drinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 3 hours ago, wellsince75 said: can't see Liam being dropped after the comments made by SK. your right so basically sk said kellys a carachter in the dressing room with a precence( in as many words ) but he puts his hands up to his mistakes and and he works on ,,,,,,,,, for all that shite talk stuart just answer the question in one word UNDROPABLE pale of pish . carry on , nothing to see here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, FirParkCornerExile said: Would you take a pay cut when you had a bad year?? Nope. That's why I don't think we could agree a new contract with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 3 hours ago, Big Stall said: I dont see it either. To be honest he should have been dropped/rested/taken out the spotlight back in November. Greenock aside, he hasnt been too bad the last set of games. I thought he had turned the corner and was hopefully coming into some form. maybe that mysterious training ground injury big stall its happened b4, i just hope if kettlewell doesnt rate ox and hasnt played him, then he better pray nothing happens to kelly cause if he needs to hang his hat on a player he hasnt played, probably doesnt rate then by fuck he better hope the nail his jacket is hanging on is secured into the wall, oh and can you imagine the shite he would spout about how good ox is, and hees just been waiting on his chance blah blah blah, i for one would like to be at that presser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, smiddy said: maybe that mysterious training ground injury big stall its happened b4, i just hope if kettlewell doesnt rate ox and hasnt played him, then he better pray nothing happens to kelly cause if he needs to hang his hat on a player he hasnt played, probably doesnt rate then by fuck he better hope the nail his jacket is hanging on is secured into the wall, oh and can you imagine the shite he would spout about how good ox is, and hees just been waiting on his chance blah blah blah, i for one would like to be at that presser In a round about way you have raised a very good point. If our number2 keeper isnt good enough to get a chance infront of an under performing/out of form number 1, then why didnt he look to bring in another keeper in January? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 2 minutes ago, Big Stall said: In a round about way you have raised a very good point. If our number2 keeper isnt good enough to get a chance infront of an under performing/out of form number 1, then why didnt he look to bring in another keeper in January? correct, so if his sweetpea kelly gets injured, heez fucked , he will be playing a 2nd choice gk he really hasnt showed any faith in and who is also out of contract at the end of the season who could possibly give not one jot bout MFC as he wont be here next year anyway sleep on that one stuarty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Balls of Shire Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, smiddy said: correct, so if his sweetpea kelly gets injured, heez fucked , he will be playing a 2nd choice gk he really hasnt showed any faith in and who is also out of contract at the end of the season who could possibly give not one jot bout MFC as he wont be here next year anyway sleep on that one stuarty If Kelly gets injured and if he doesn't rate Ox, apart from that nearly factual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, smiddy said: correct, so if his sweetpea kelly gets injured, heez fucked , he will be playing a 2nd choice gk he really hasnt showed any faith in and who is also out of contract at the end of the season who could possibly give not one jot bout MFC as he wont be here next year anyway sleep on that one stuarty That's reality. I remember being at the game when Carson got injured and then Gillespie got his chance. Pretty sure goalies know that when they sign that it can be hard to displace the main keeper. Plenty of clubs have goalies sitting on the bench. Not just Motherwell. You could also argue that it's not just Kelly underperforming just now given that we aren't bottom of the table. He's not fucked. If Kelly gets injured Aston will take his chance. What would happen if Aston went in goals and started letting goals in? Of course there's an argument for starting him but how many teams in the SPL put on their second choice keeper when their main keeper dips in form? Not many I suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted February 13 Author Report Share Posted February 13 The Butcher has a word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, SteelmaninOZ said: The Butcher has a word Short interview again then!! 😜😜 One word to describe him on Friday.......slow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 14 hours ago, wellgirl said: That's reality. I remember being at the game when Carson got injured and then Gillespie got his chance. Pretty sure goalies know that when they sign that it can be hard to displace the main keeper. Plenty of clubs have goalies sitting on the bench. Not just Motherwell. You could also argue that it's not just Kelly underperforming just now given that we aren't bottom of the table. He's not fucked. If Kelly gets injured Aston will take his chance. What would happen if Aston went in goals and started letting goals in? Of course there's an argument for starting him but how many teams in the SPL put on their second choice keeper when their main keeper dips in form? Not many I suspect. Thats not really an argument at all. Every club carries a reserve keeper. Reasons are to cover for injuries and suspensions & to give competition. Same as any other area of the pitch, if you dont perform & there is someone better then you lose your place. Simple. See Arsenal currently, Liverpool previously and even Joe Hart back in his day. I dont think anyone on these forums has ever suggested that Oxborough is going to be brilliant. All people have been questioning is why he hasnt been given a chance when Kelly has clearly not been performing at the levels he can. Now it might be as simple as Ox is not good enough. Or maybe he doesnt contribute at training or he could even be a bad egg in the camp. That is all entirely plausible. If he isnt good enough then why not bring in more competition in january. Given we paid a fee for this lad then its fair that supporters assume he must be half decent. My opinion (not in the know) is that Ox will be off, even if the club wanted him to stay- which doesnt look likely. You dont hang around as an understudy and get zero game time when the number 1 is in poor form. It would be interesting to hear how his relationship is with kettlewell. Can imagine its a kick in the baws every week being on the bench. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well_said Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, grizzlyg said: Short interview again then!! 😜😜 One word to describe him on Friday.......slow Some would say he was mince. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretzel Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 The game will be available on Aberdeens RedTV for £13.99 if anyone is willing to fork out after Friday's debacle. https://ppv.afc.co.uk/events 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, well_said said: Some would say he was mince. Ahhhh. See what you did there 🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, Big Stall said: Thats not really an argument at all. Every club carries a reserve keeper. Reasons are to cover for injuries and suspensions & to give competition. Same as any other area of the pitch, if you dont perform & there is someone better then you lose your place. Simple. See Arsenal currently, Liverpool previously and even Joe Hart back in his day. I dont think anyone on these forums has ever suggested that Oxborough is going to be brilliant. All people have been questioning is why he hasnt been given a chance when Kelly has clearly not been performing at the levels he can. Now it might be as simple as Ox is not good enough. Or maybe he doesnt contribute at training or he could even be a bad egg in the camp. That is all entirely plausible. If he isnt good enough then why not bring in more competition in january. Given we paid a fee for this lad then its fair that supporters assume he must be half decent. My opinion (not in the know) is that Ox will be off, even if the club wanted him to stay- which doesnt look likely. You dont hang around as an understudy and get zero game time when the number 1 is in poor form. It would be interesting to hear how his relationship is with kettlewell. Can imagine its a kick in the baws every week being on the bench. It's my opinion. My opinion that I have a right to in my view. The same way you have yours. I personally think that the people on here who support Kettlewell get their posts automatically written off. This isn't a dig at you. That's just how I feel right now. Not an argument. I actually said a few days ago on here I thought that Kelly should be rested for his own sake. But it's Kettlewells call. I also don't think the fact that Kelly is first pick necessarily means there's anything wrong with the relationship he has with Aston. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 22 hours ago, grizzlyg said: Nope. That's why I don't think we could agree a new contract with him I'd move him on. He's infinitely replaceable at a lot less than we are paying him. Ive heard folk say "if we want a chance of Euro money he needs to play for a chance of being picked, if he's dropped there is zero chance of being picked". I don't really go for that because the amount of money isn't earth shattering, so I'm rather perplexed why he isn't dropped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, wellgirl said: It's my opinion. My opinion that I have a right to in my view. The same way you have yours. I personally think that the people on here who support Kettlewell get their posts automatically written off. This isn't a dig at you. That's just how I feel right now. Not an argument. I actually said a few days ago on here I thought that Kelly should be rested for his own sake. But it's Kettlewells call. I also don't think the fact that Kelly is first pick necessarily means there's anything wrong with the relationship he has with Aston. Theres absolutley nothing wrong with having an opinion. The point is that goal keepers do get dropped when form dips 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.