2024/25 Ins & Outs Discussion

[TheoBair14]

https://x.com/barrymaguire98/status/1792950682678448371?s=46&t=Yi0H3LakxlXxc5QEsuI9Ug
 

No surprise but Barry Maguire announces that he leaving after 9 years 

Good luck for the future Barry. 

[Kmcalpin]

2 hours ago, steelboy said:

McGinn is finished, too many errors and can't compete physically.

The top priority has to be get to someone to play in the middle of the three.

I don't know about being finished but I see where you're coming from. He's been very solid; a steadying influence if you like, but his form has tailed off.  He'll also be a year older and slower next season. I know its a rumour, but a 12 month deal wouldn't be unreasonable for him OR preferably SOD, but not both. .

Given our defensive record over the past year, tinkering with the defence will do no good. It needs a complete overhaul.

[Spit_It_Out]

41 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I don't know about being finished but I see where you're coming from. He's been very solid; a steadying influence if you like, but his form has tailed off.  He'll also be a year older and slower rext season. I know its a rumour, but a 12 month deal wouldn't be unreasonable for him OR preferably SOD, but not both. .

Given our defensive record on the past year, tinkering with the defence will do no good. It needs a complete overhaul.

What’s a year older got anything to do with it?He is hardly passed it at his age and majority of players keep themselves pretty fit.

This age thing with footballers is ridiculous it’s ability and McGinn has more than enough to get a game in the Spl for us.

 

[steelboy]

1 minute ago, Spit_It_Out said:

 

This age thing with footballers is ridiculous it’s ability and McGinn has more than enough to get a game in the Spl for us.

 

He was a major part of a defence which kept 3 clean sheets in 41 games. He's not good enough and we need the wages for new players.

Age is undefeated. If it wasn't Tommy Coyne and Faddy would still be playing for us.

[Yodo]

6 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Kettlewell also rates him highly so I don't see him going anywhere unless he turns the offered terms down. 

There in lies the problem

[David]

Kelly drawing interest from both Celtic and Rangers, then?

You have to wonder why either of them hasn't chosen the "just as good but half the wages" option that certain people on here have been talking about.

Guess that means we can jump in now and grab that guy though, whoever he is.

[wellfan]

11 minutes ago, David said:

Kelly drawing interest from both Celtic and Rangers, then?

You have to wonder why either of them hasn't chosen the "just as good but half the wages" option that certain people on here have been talking about.

Guess that means we can jump in now and grab that guy though, whoever he is.

3 clean sheets in 38 games. 

[David]

14 minutes ago, wellfan said:

3 clean sheets in 38 games. 

None of that to do with the defence in front of him, then? I mean, we all know Kelly was a very good keeper at points for us. Are we thinking he's suddenly "shite"? Or, as is most likely the case, he's been playing with a sub-standard defence?

I remember certain individuals on this forum claiming that Kelly would be lucky to get an offer from another Premier League club. 

Looks like he's been in the thoughts of two fairly prominent ones. Despite "3 clean sheets in 38 games."

[wellfan]

7 minutes ago, David said:

None of that to do with the defence in front of him, then? I mean, we all know Kelly was a very good keeper at points for us. Are we thinking he's suddenly "shite"? Or, as is most likely the case, he's been playing with a sub-standard defence?

I remember certain individuals on this forum claiming that Kelly would be lucky to get an offer from another Premier League club. 

Looks like he's been in the thoughts of two fairly prominent ones. Despite "3 clean sheets in 38 games."

It's unquestioned that the defence has been shit this season and that Kelly has had great spells for us over his several seasons. However, it's complete denial to suggest that he's not been poor at times and that he's not had a part to play in only keeping three clean sheets this season. I don't care who he gets offers from or how much he's paid; all I am saying is that his record this season is shit.

[David]

14 minutes ago, wellfan said:

It's unquestioned that the defence has been shit this season and that Kelly has had great spells for us over his several seasons. However, it's complete denial to suggest that he's not been poor at times and that he's not had a part to play in only keeping three clean sheets this season. I don't care who he gets offers from or how much he's paid; all I am saying is that his record this season is shit.

Who's saying that he's not been poor? He's been part of a poor defence, but you could honestly have stuck Walter Zenga in goal for us this season and he'd have found it tough. What I'm saying is that he'll likely fare better in a better team, and that you don't get interest from Celtic or Rangers, never mind both of them, if you're "the worst keeper in the league" as some have claimed.

[Mootherwell86]

33 minutes ago, David said:

None of that to do with the defence in front of him, then? I mean, we all know Kelly was a very good keeper at points for us. Are we thinking he's suddenly "shite"? Or, as is most likely the case, he's been playing with a sub-standard defence?

I remember certain individuals on this forum claiming that Kelly would be lucky to get an offer from another Premier League club. 

Looks like he's been in the thoughts of two fairly prominent ones. Despite "3 clean sheets in 38 games."

He’s been an absolute disaster this past season. Statistically speaking he’s one of the worst goalkeepers in the league. I don’t think his form ever recovered from that Raith Rovers cup game.  

Flip side to your point is that he’s not given the defenders in front of him any confidence. His complete inability to command his box and deal with crosses into the box has caused us all sorts of problems this season, Sunday being prime example. 

 
 

[David]

4 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said:

He’s been an absolute disaster this past season. Statistically speaking he’s one of the worst goalkeepers in the league. I don’t think his form ever recovered from that Raith Rovers cup game.  

Flip side to your point is that he’s not given the defenders in front of him any confidence. His complete inability to command his box and deal with crosses into the box has caused us all sorts of problems this season, Sunday being prime example. 

Then why are Celtic and Rangers wasting their time on him? If he's terrible?

[Mootherwell86]

1 minute ago, wellgirl said:

I get this point too. But if our defence was better a lot of the goals against us wouldn't have been a consideration. If we have a bombscare defence it's not all on Kelly 

His save percentage of 63.4% is the second lowest in the league and shows that he’s massively unperformed without considering the defence in front of him. 

[Mootherwell86]

1 minute ago, David said:

Then why are Celtic and Rangers wasting their time on him? If he's terrible?

I assume you’re his da?

Siegrest and Bain are leaving Celtic and McLaughlin and McCrorie are leaving Rangers.  Of that list he’s only a better keeper than Bain. 

You know fine well he’s going to be 2nd or 3rd choice at either club and will help them make up their “homegrown” quota.  
 

 

[grizzlyg]

39 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

I agree. Id be happy to keep both SOD and McGinn. Bevis is the one I think needs to go. 

Agree totally.  Mcginn deserves another year

[David]

3 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said:

His save percentage of 63.4% is the second lowest in the league and shows that he’s massively unperformed without considering the defence in front of him. 

You understand that a goalkeeper's saves often result from the situations and positions created by the defence, right? Just like how a keeper's command of the box during set pieces can influence the defence's response?

It's very difficult to evaluate a goalkeeper or his statistics in isolation without considering the defence in front of him, and the same goes for evaluating many aspects of the defence without considering the goalkeeper's role.

[David]

2 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said:

I assume you’re his da?

Siegrest and Bain are leaving Celtic and McLaughlin and McCrorie are leaving Rangers.  Of that list he’s only a better keeper than Bain. 

You know fine well he’s going to be 2nd or 3rd choice at either club and will help them make up their “homegrown” quota.  

However, we've often heard that there are significantly better goalkeepers available for a fraction of Kelly's salary. Why haven't Celtic or Rangers pursued any of these options?

Perhaps the reality is that he's not as bad as some people here think. Both sides of the Old Firm may have assessed him and concluded, "With a stronger defence in front of him, he could be a very competent backup keeper."

[Mootherwell86]

Just now, David said:

You understand that a goalkeeper's saves often result from the situations and positions created by the defence, right? Just like how a keeper's command of the box during set pieces can influence the defence's response?

It's very difficult to evaluate a goalkeeper or his statistics in isolation without considering the defence in front of him, and the same goes for evaluating many aspects of the defence without considering the goalkeeper's role.

Okay then, has our defence been better or worse than that of Ross County? They’ve conceded 67 goals to our 59. Their goalkeepers the year have a save percentage of 69.9%. 
 

You can dress it up however you like, the fact is he has massively underperformed this year. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that. 

[David]

6 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said:

Okay then, has our defence been better or worse than that of Ross County? They’ve conceded 67 goals to our 59. Their goalkeepers the year have a save percentage of 69.9%. 
 

You can dress it up however you like, the fact is he has massively underperformed this year. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that. 

Again, no one denies that he has underperformed. He has, like most of our players, particularly in defence.

However, if he were as bad as many here suggest, he would be finishing up the last days of his contract and heading off to somewhere like the Northern Premier League, just like Aaron Chapman did.

There are varying degrees to how well our goalkeepers have performed. Kelly may not be at the level of Ruddie or Randolph, but he's certainly better than Aaron Chapman or Craig Samson. We've had some legit terrible keepers in recent times. Kelly isn't one of them.

[Mootherwell86]

1 minute ago, David said:

Again, no one denies that he has underperformed. He has, like most of our players, particularly in defence.

However, if he were as bad as many here suggest, he would be finishing up the last days of his contract and heading off to somewhere like the Northern Premier League, just like Aaron Chapman did.

There are varying degrees to how well our goalkeepers have performed. Kelly may not be at the level of Ruddie or Randolph, but he's certainly better than Aaron Chapman or Craig Samson. We've had some legit terrible keepers in recent times. Kelly isn't one of them.

Anyone claiming he’s the worst we’ve ever had is talking nonsense. He has been a decent servant to the club and helped us out of a sticky patch during the covid season. 

He had an excellent first 18 months with the club. His form has since fallen off a cliff and in my opinion he’s been lucky to keep his place in our starting 11.  

Hope he has a shite time at Rangers. 

 

 

[bobbybingo]

21 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said:

Okay then, has our defence been better or worse than that of Ross County? They’ve conceded 67 goals to our 59. Their goalkeepers the year have a save percentage of 69.9%. 
 

You can dress it up however you like, the fact is he has massively underperformed this year. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that. 

What they can't see is whether McCrorie or McLaughlin are, as you said, better keepers than him. It's hard to lose goals when you never play.

[Mad Dog]

McCrorie should have left years ago. Throughout the SPL there aren't many clubs that give chances to homegrown 'keepers so really no point in sticking around.

[grizzlyg]

21 minutes ago, David said:

Again, no one denies that he has underperformed. He has, like most of our players, particularly in defence.

However, if he were as bad as many here suggest, he would be finishing up the last days of his contract and heading off to somewhere like the Northern Premier League, just like Aaron Chapman did.

There are varying degrees to how well our goalkeepers have performed. Kelly may not be at the level of Ruddie or Randolph, but he's certainly better than Aaron Chapman or Craig Samson. We've had some legit terrible keepers in recent times. Kelly isn't one of them.

Twardzik.....Hollis....Michael Fraser.....Smith

Yup Kelly better than those also

[joewarkfanclub]

I find the whole Kelly debate quite boring. Theres too many posters with entrenched positions digging in for the long haul rather than engaging with any meaningful debate.

Kelly was a good keeper once. He hasnt been for some time. He doesnt come of his line which leaves us vulnerable at set pieces and his distribution is awful. He is far from the worst keeper we've ever had, but also far from the best.

Looks like he is signing for Rangers and we can get his rather substantial wages off the wage bill.

Might free up some money for better defenders to better protect the next incumbent.

[David]

3 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Anyhoo. Who do folk think will be our next goalie? Wrong answers only... 

No seriously...... 

Someone just as good, if not better than Kelly on a fraction of his salary.