2024/25 Ins & Outs Discussion

[TheoBair14]

On 5/8/2024 at 6:00 PM, mio said:

With regard to van veen, I’m sure we arranged a deal with Groningen when selling him that if they get promoted this season we’d get £100k (reported somewhere….. can’t remember where)

They are sitting 3rd with a chance still of promotion 

They have been promoted through 2nd so I imagine we get money for that Even tho Van Veen at Kilmarnock 

[wellgirl]

14 minutes ago, TheoBair14 said:

They have been promoted through 2nd so I imagine we get money for that Even tho Van Veen at Kilmarnock 

That's right 

[Motherwell Daft]

20 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Plenty of people on here talk about departing or ex players. 

Yeah, and me too, expressing my personal opinion of he’s leaving so bye bye???

[wellsince75]

Re Kelly

Honestly think be careful what you wish for.  Most players we've replaced in recent years have been downgraded to a poorer version.  This could easily happen (probable even) assuming Kelly moves on.

Understandably we recall keepers over recent times like Gillespie, Carson, Randolph Ruddy. 

When Kelly first appeared on the scene it was because we had Archer and Chapman and he was an immediate upgrade.  Add to that he had Hartley and Gallagher in central defence who gave superior protection to what we have now.

I looked through the recent list of keepers: Carson, Chapman, Archer, Gillespie, Ferguson, Ox, Griffiths, Samson,Ripley, Twardzick, Long and quickly came to the conclusion that Kelly has been one of our better goal keepers in the last +10 years. 

The bigger issue over recent seasons for me isn't Kelly, it's the lack of protection and allowing oppositions to easily penetrate his weaknesses. 

He for me is one of the good guys, with lots of quality and clearly cares about the club.  Not someone we should assume is replaceable , particularly given how poor our recruitment team have been with perm signings since Dawes has come on board. 

[stv]

On 5/9/2024 at 8:39 AM, Spiderpig said:

Being honest playing in a team with far better defenders and midfield than we currently have, Kelly would be a much better keeper. He would not be so exposed as he is at Fir Park. Would be surprised if Celtic signed him as their first choice keeper though.

Hes too wee and doesn’t come out for a cross, no use for a big team in the modern game

[wellfan]

4 minutes ago, stv said:

Hes too wee and doesn’t come out for a cross, no use for a big team in the modern game

I think there’s a middle ground to be found with a team of our stature (pun intended) and budget in the modern game nowadays, and I think that’s probably Kelly. 

[Kmcalpin]

8 minutes ago, stv said:

Hes too wee and doesn’t come out for a cross, no use for a big team in the modern game

You've nailed it.

As Wellsince75 points out though the defence and midfield have not helped. In my book, taking into account his distribution, shot stopping and aerial ability he's average - probably lower level Premiership level.

How long is it since we developed a first pick goalie from within our own ranks? Ally Maxwell?

[wellsince75]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

As Wellsince75 points out though the defence and midfield have not helped. In my book, taking into account his distribution, shot stopping and aerial ability he's average - probably lower level Premiership level.

How long is it since we developed a first pick goalie from within our own ranks? Ally Maxwell?

was trying to point out that although he has flaws he's better than the majority of keepers we've had on our books in the last decade. Fully appreciate we all see things differently though. 

You're right about developing our own keeper, Maxwell came in just after Nicky Walker was sold.  From memory took him a few years to cement himself first choice v's likes of Gardiner.

Was surprised to see Maxwell played less games for us than Kelly has . 

[joewarkfanclub]

I dont think Kellys performances are necessarily the biggest problem, albeit his weaknesses are mostly agreed.

I think generally speaking most folk accept he is pretty much the average standard of keeper we can attract at our level.

Sometines we do better, sometimes we do worse.

I think the fact that he is widely regarded as our top earner is what hurts him.

A lot of us think we can do better for the money we are paying. Or at least not do worse by offering a keeper less.

 

[Kmcalpin]

24 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I dont think Kellys performances are necessarily the biggest problem, albeit his weaknesses are mostly agreed.

I think generally speaking most folk accept he is pretty much the average standard of keeper we can attract at our level.

I don't necessarily agree Joe. I think his performances have been a problem. When he first arrived they were considerably better than they are now. His form has shaded in the past 3 years. Overall, I'd say he's an average keeper for a lower Premiership side. If we aspire to a top six place we will have to recruit slightly better. Maybe we have been spoiled in recent years with the likes of Ruddy, Randoloph and Gillespie. Going back over the years I think he'll be judged as an average custodian. Better than the likes of Gardiner, Woods, Fraser and, Hollis; but not as good as McCloy, McRae, Rennie or Wyllie. 

[joewarkfanclub]

8 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I don't necessarily agree Joe. I think his performances have been a problem. When he first arrived they were considerably better than they are now. His form has shaded in the past 3 years. Overall, I'd say he's an average keeper for a lower Premiership side. If we aspire to a top six place we will have to recruit slightly better. Maybe we have been spoiled in recent years with the likes of Ruddy, Randoloph and Gillespie. Going back over the years I think he'll be judged as an average custodian. Better than the likes of Gardiner, Woods, Fraser and, Hollis; but not as good as McCloy, McRae, Rennie or Wyllie. 

Not sure there is much different there to what I was getting at.

Kellys performances this season certainly havent been anywhere near as good as they were in his first season, so I agree, over the piece he has been average.

Strangely though, as others have said, having Hollis in goals didnt stop us getting top 6. But he had much better defenders in front of him.

Regardless. We need better value for money when it comes to recruitment.

Given Kelly is on above average money for us Im comfortable with him moving on.

[weeyin]

The fact that Kelly has Casey, Blaney and Butcher giving away half a dozen free shots and headers every week certainly hasn't helped his cause this season. It's no coincidence that keepers play better when the defensive players are functioning well as a unit.

[bobbybingo]

6 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Strangely though, as others have said, having Hollis in goals didnt stop us getting top 6. But he had much better defenders in front of him.

Hollis played the majority of his games in 2013/14 when we finished 2nd. We conceded 60 goals that season - so far, we've lost 54 this year.

[wellgirl]

22 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I don't necessarily agree Joe. I think his performances have been a problem. When he first arrived they were considerably better than they are now. His form has shaded in the past 3 years. Overall, I'd say he's an average keeper for a lower Premiership side. If we aspire to a top six place we will have to recruit slightly better. Maybe we have been spoiled in recent years with the likes of Ruddy, Randoloph and Gillespie. Going back over the years I think he'll be judged as an average custodian. Better than the likes of Gardiner, Woods, Fraser and, Hollis; but not as good as McCloy, McRae, Rennie or Wyllie. 

I don't think Kelly is average. I do agree that his performances have tailed off but as other people have said having a rotten defence hasn't helped him this season. I think he was outstanding in his loan spell. If he hadn't been as good as he was we wouldn't have pushed the boat out to get him back. 

And I also very much rated Gillespie and Carson. Ruddy too obviously. Gillespie also only got his chance because of Carsons injury. (that's not a criticism of him). 

[thewelllfan]

Anyone see the rumour Bristol City are preparing a bid of total 1.25m for Theo Bair

[Fergie79]

1 minute ago, thewelllfan said:

Anyone see the rumour Bristol City are preparing a bid of total 1.25m for Theo Bair

Charlton also rumoured to be interested....let the bid war commence

[wellgirl]

5 minutes ago, thewelllfan said:

Anyone see the rumour Bristol City are preparing a bid of total 1.25m for Theo Bair

Yeah.  On twitter. Was it the well informed twitter account you saw it on? The rumour is 750k plus 500k add ons. The original rumour was 750k. I'd personally like to think we could keep him for another season. 

[texanwellfan]

5 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Yeah.  On twitter. Was it the well informed twitter account you saw it on? The rumour is 750k plus 500k add ons. The original rumour was 750k. I'd personally like to think we could keep him for another season. 

How long do we have him signed up for? 

[wellgirl]

1 minute ago, texanwellfan said:

How long do we have him signed up for? 

Another year I think. 

[texanwellfan]

We obviously have to sell him before his contract is up so can we keep him another year? 

[wellgirl]

2 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

We obviously have to sell him before his contract is up so can we keep him another year? 

Probably not tbh unless he goes in January or signs an extension. Just a shame that he's just coming onto his game and we'll probably lose him. 

[weeyin]

If he hits 20, we should add another million to that price.

Ideal scenario, of course, is he signs and extension with a release clause so we get another 6 months or year out of him before he moves on.

5 or 6 goals for Canada this summer wouldn't hurt either.

 

 

[bobbybingo]

1 minute ago, texanwellfan said:

We obviously have to sell him before his contract is up so can we keep him another year? 

Only if we can get him to extend for another year. Although, there's always the risk of rejecting a decent offer only to see a player lose form or get injured.

[StAndrew7]

4 minutes ago, weeyin said:

If he hits 20, we should add another million to that price.

Ideal scenario, of course, is he signs and extension with a release clause so we get another 6 months or year out of him before he moves on.

5 or 6 goals for Canada this summer wouldn't hurt either.

 

 

I think the latter is the ideal scenario. If he can add some international goals and he gets some recognition on that stage we should absolutely cash in on him.

In an ideal world, we'd extend him before the summer and he does the above as well.

[texanwellfan]

1 hour ago, wellgirl said:

Probably not tbh unless he goes in January or signs an extension. Just a shame that he's just coming onto his game and we'll probably lose him. 

Yes, that’s the concern. We either need to sell him this summer or extend his contract in order for us to make any money. He doesn’t owe us anything but SK is the one responsible, in a large part, in getting him to this position so will he feel any sense of duty and sign an extension with a release clause or will it be take the money and run? (That phrase may apply to MFC or Bair)