Motherwell v Celtic 25/02/2024

[Benson]

10 minutes ago, MJC said:

Yes a gutless mentality and it’s been growing and festering for over twenty years now.

”we’re punching above our weight”

”we don’t expect anything against the Old firm”

”These games don’t matter because of the difference in budgets”

All quotes that have been doing the rounds since the early 00s and lo and behold that corresponds with our worst ever run of results against both OF sides all while the four clubs you mention and more have beaten them more than once during that same period regardless of whether they have been relegated or not.

And let me be clear here so that no one misunderstands this. I am not for one second suggesting that I would want to see us relegated if it meant we beat Celtic or Rangers every once in a while, but the two aren’t mutually exclusive. I would just like to see our mentality as a club improve.

Early 00s does that include europa league qualifiers,champions league qualifier,league Cup finalists,Scottish Cup finalists and still never been relegated with a club that shops In poundland and has ave 5000 through its gates,give yerself a shake man,and beating the old firm doesn't keep you in the league,ask the clubs chairman who've been relegated what they'd prefer,beating old firm now and again or staying,yer brains frazzled.

[bobbybingo]

12 minutes ago, MJC said:

Talk about straight out of the happy clappers manual.

The game lasts as long as it does until the final whistle. And over the years I’ve seen us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory too often in these scenarios.

2-0 and 3-2 up against Celtic a few years back, lose with the last kick of the ball.

1-0 up at Ibrox with five minutes to go in the Scottish Cup. Lose 2-1 with two late goals.

Score a stoppage time equaliser against Celtic. Still lose the game.

Beating Rangers 2-1 at Fir Park and totally comfortable. Stevie Woods gifts them an equaliser and lose the replay.

Comfortable against Rangers in a Semi Final at Hampden. Craigan loses Naismith in the last minute. Lose the game.

Likewise against Celtic at Hampden in a semi. Corrigan pass backs to Graeme Smith last minute, they score they win.

Get a last minute penalty against Rangers when 0-0. Miss it.

I could go on but you get my drift.

You're a bloody Jonah.

[Ya Bezzer!]

1 minute ago, MJC said:

Talk about straight out of the happy clappers manual.

The game lasts as long as it does until the final whistle. And over the years I’ve seen us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory too often in these scenarios.

2-0 and 3-2 up against Celtic a few years back, lose with the last kick of the ball.

1-0 up at Ibrox with five minutes to go in the Scottish Cup. Lose 2-1 with two late goals.

Score a stoppage time equaliser against Celtic. Still lose the game.

Beating Rangers 2-1 at Fir Park and totally comfortable. Stevie Woods gifts them an equaliser and lose the replay.

Comfortable against Rangers in a Semi Final at Hampden. Craigan loses Naismith in the last minute. Lose the game.

Likewise against Celtic at Hampden in a semi. Corrigan pass backs to Graeme Smith last minute, they score they win.

Get a last minute penalty against Rangers when 0-0. Miss it.

I could go on but you get my drift.

Rangers and Celtic are much better than us.  Hence we don't beat them much. It's why no one else has won the league since 1985 and the entire history of Scottish football has been dominated by them.

However I do remember some like pumping Rangers in the playoff 6-1 or the semi final win with Moult's wonder goal or a bunch of draws in recent times at Fir Park, Celtic Park and Ibrox or the semi final win on the way to the '91 win or Tommy Coyne scoring a header in a gale in the Scottish Cup or a bunch of other times.  Maybe you should remember some of the good times as well.

And of all the posters here I don't think I'm one that can be accused of being a happy clapper. 

I just think Motherwell fans should be fair, have realistic views and maybe have the self awareness of recognising where we are in the game.  

Putting in a good effort against a team with x 25 our resources and losing out narrowly ain't the worst thing in the world.

[Benson]

17 minutes ago, Wee Dougie said:

Tremendous application from the team today, but unfortunately ran out of steam in the second half. Could have been 2 or 3 goals up, but for some bad luck and dodgy lines. Thought Vale put in a shift should have scored and was the subject of some heavy tackles which went unpunished. Contrary to Mr Miserable, thought the crowd were excellent and right behind the team, so to say nobody celebrated our wonderful Spittal strike, is just his usual Pish. Onto the next game on the crap astro. Top 6 probably gone but let's get the season completed and hopefully next one can push on. 

Well said

[Spit_It_Out]

For me soon as Butcher came on the defence went from being decent to utterly all over the place.

Kettlewell says he goes over the match after the games vigorously well if he can't see how bad Butcher has become then I have no words for it.He offers us nothing would say it's a plus for our opposition if anything if he is playing 

Nobody can tell me that he is worth a new contract that's for sure.

[Benson]

3 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

For me soon as Butcher came on the defence went from being decent to utterly all over the place.

Kettlewell says he goes over the match after the games vigorously well if he can't see how bad Butcher has become then I have no words for it.He offers us nothing would say it's a plus for our opposition if anything if he is playing 

Nobody can tell me that he is worth a new contract that's for sure.

The main reason the defence was all over the place was celtic had quality strength in depth they could bring on,we didn't, the players energy levels were flagging,they upped their game and had more possession in our half and we had no out ball,to blame it on one player is total pish,if butcher was playing in first half he would have been OK because we were playing more in celtics half than the second half,it's that fucking simple without saying Butcher was good,he wasn't,but Butcher didn't cost us the game,from the front,no out ball,bair on his own,the midfield been overrun and out of puff puts more pressure on defence,its that simple

[wellfan]

21 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

For me soon as Butcher came on the defence went from being decent to utterly all over the place.

Kettlewell says he goes over the match after the games vigorously well if he can't see how bad Butcher has become then I have no words for it.He offers us nothing would say it's a plus for our opposition if anything if he is playing 

Nobody can tell me that he is worth a new contract that's for sure.

You're absolutely right, but it's a nailed-on certainty that Kettlewell will offer him a new contract, as I'm convinced he chooses not to acknowledge the things caused by his poor decision-making. For example, in his post-match interview, he stated that the defence was unsettled because he had to replace injured/knackered players, which is fair enough. However, he doesn't acknowledge that he unnecessarily unsettled the entire defence by trying to accommodate Butcher when it should've been a straight swap for Casey, allowing the remaining players to continue doing what they had been doing quite well. Some accountability and evidence that he is learning from his mistakes wouldn't go amiss here. Even the usually jolly bunch on P&B appear to blame today's capitulation on the manager, which speaks volumes. How many more defeats, poor in-game management, and questionable signings will it take before the fans turn on him en masse?

 

10 minutes ago, Benson said:

The main reason the defence was all over the place was celtic had quality strength in depth they could bring on,we didn't, the players energy levels were flagging,they upped their game and had more possession in our half and we had no out ball,to blame it on one player is total pish,if butcher was playing in first half he would have been OK because we were playing more in celtics half than the second half,it's that fucking simple without saying Butcher was good,he wasn't,but Butcher didn't cost us the game,from the front,no out ball,bair on his own,the midfield been overrun and out of puff puts more pressure on defence,its that simple

The man who brought Butcher on and unnecessarily rejigged the entire back three to accommodate him cost us the game. A lot more happened following that substitution, but many people on the forums acknowledge it was a turning point in the game. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

56 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Every Celtic player is better than our equivalent.

To compete in the game we have to make up with that with sheer workrate - which we did.

This however leaves you vulnerable in the latter stages of the game when stamina and mental fatigue become factors.

That's what happened today, it's what's happened many times in the past.

If it was mentality we wouldn't be holding out to 94th or 97th minute or indeed getting a late draw at Celtic Park earlier in the season.

People just need to get a grip.  Obviously it's gutting to lose like this but we don't need the finger pointing and vitriol.

How about maybe, just maybe, giving the team a slap on the back for competing against a team who's wages bill for their subs today is more than our entire club budget.

 

Finger pointing and vitriol ironically characteristics of a weak mentality .

[Mad Dog]

1 hour ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

Sadly the club is in an absolute mess from top to bottom and Wednesday night is crucial to everyone apart from Kettlewell who has a job for life based on his win ratio and contract extension 

Actually, based on his contract extension he has a job until May 2025.

[Spiderpig]

7 minutes ago, wellfan said:

 

The man who brought Butcher on and unnecessarily rejigged the entire back three to accommodate him cost us the game. A lot more happened following that substitution, but many people on the forums acknowledge it was a turning point in the game. 

Butcher is brutal but he never cost us the game, our whole team starting the 2nd half by sitting back and letting Celtic come on to us with the inevitable result cost us at least a point today.

Gent had a nightmare today everything Celtic threw at us came down his side, he constantly failed to stop the crosses coming in, and we got punished for it late on again.

Celtic were there for the taking today and we got ourselves in a great position and then tried to sit bag and hang on for 45 mins and got what that tactic deserved feck all, our game management is brutal.

[wellfan]

6 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Butcher is brutal but he never cost us the game, our whole team starting the 2nd half by sitting back and letting Celtic come on to us with the inevitable result cost us at least a point today.

Gent had a nightmare today everything Celtic threw at us came down his side, he constantly failed to stop the crosses coming in, and we got punished for it late on again.

Celtic were there for the taking today and we got ourselves in a great position and then tried to sit bag and hang on for 45 mins and got what that tactic deserved feck all, our game management is brutal.

I didn't say Butcher cost us the game. Read my post again. 

[Spiderpig]

Just now, wellfan said:

I didn't say Butcher cost us the game. Read my post again. 

That's what you implied by by SKs actions who had to replace Casey as he was fecked, but as I said the whole team is to blame.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

 allowed Celtic to advance 40/50 yards time and time again.
 

Yes, from kick off. In the players' heads they were beaten at 1200 today. We were far too submissive and gave Celtic far too much respect from start to finish. Our attitude has to change for Wednesday. Not disappointed with losing late goals as it was obvious from the 60 minute mark what was going to happen. Fortunately Celtic were poor (by their standards) and they struggled to score 3. Big problem was our powder puff midfield, which was far too lightweight. Hopefully Paton's crutches are only precautionary, but I'm not holding my breath. His industry and energy was sorely missed today. 

[MJC]

35 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Yes, from kick off. In the players' heads they were beaten at 1200 today. We were far too submissive and gave Celtic far too much respect from start to finish. Our attitude has to change for Wednesday. Not disappointed with losing late goals as it was obvious from the 60 minute mark what was going to happen. Fortunately Celtic were poor (by their standards) and they struggled to score 3. Big problem was our powder puff midfield, which was far too lightweight. Hopefully Paton's crutches are only precautionary, but I'm not holding my breath. His industry and energy was sorely missed today. 

That’s the best summary of today I’ve seen on here so far. We were good for the first 15-20 minutes and seemed to take confidence from them looking under par.

They grew into it and we went back into our shells but again took heart from them not being as relentless and clinical as you’d expect Celtic to be. We deserved our lead when we got it and it was a fine goal from our best player. After half time though we hadn’t a clue what to do and as soon as the equaliser went in it was only going to end one way. And you could see that our players knew it too.
 

Sloppy stuff as ever from Butcher and taking GG off was a killer. That we so nearly got away with a draw makes it all the harder to take but we didn’t and just like earlier in the season a below par Celtic side come to Fir Park and snatch it back in the dying seconds. As I said, just so predictable.

[wellgirl]

31 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Yes, from kick off. In the players' heads they were beaten at 1200 today. We were far too submissive and gave Celtic far too much respect from start to finish. Our attitude has to change for Wednesday. Not disappointed with losing late goals as it was obvious from the 60 minute mark what was going to happen. Fortunately Celtic were poor (by their standards) and they struggled to score 3. Big problem was our powder puff midfield, which was far too lightweight. Hopefully Paton's crutches are only precautionary, but I'm not holding my breath. His industry and energy was sorely missed today. 

If that's the case why did Spittal score and Bair have the ball in the net? 

[Great Balls of Shire]

36 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Yes, from kick off. In the players' heads they were beaten at 1200 today. We were far too submissive and gave Celtic far too much respect from start to finish. Our attitude has to change for Wednesday. Not disappointed with losing late goals as it was obvious from the 60 minute mark what was going to happen. Fortunately Celtic were poor (by their standards) and they struggled to score 3. Big problem was our powder puff midfield, which was far too lightweight. Hopefully Paton's crutches are only precautionary, but I'm not holding my breath. His industry and energy was sorely missed today. 

I agree re Paton, think he takes a lot of pelters and is a tidy wee player

Disagree re match. That's as good as I've seen us v Celtic in a long time, wasn't at the earlier match this season but I thought we were good today , not good enough tho 

 

[Benson]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

You're absolutely right, but it's a nailed-on certainty that Kettlewell will offer him a new contract, as I'm convinced he chooses not to acknowledge the things caused by his poor decision-making. For example, in his post-match interview, he stated that the defence was unsettled because he had to replace injured/knackered players, which is fair enough. However, he doesn't acknowledge that he unnecessarily unsettled the entire defence by trying to accommodate Butcher when it should've been a straight swap for Casey, allowing the remaining players to continue doing what they had been doing quite well. Some accountability and evidence that he is learning from his mistakes wouldn't go amiss here. Even the usually jolly bunch on P&B appear to blame today's capitulation on the manager, which speaks volumes. How many more defeats, poor in-game management, and questionable signings will it take before the fans turn on him en masse?

 

The man who brought Butcher on and unnecessarily rejigged the entire back three to accommodate him cost us the game. A lot more happened following that substitution, but many people on the forums acknowledge it was a turning point in the game. 

The fucking crosses from wide areas cost us the game,nullify that and its been our problem all season with or without butcher,we concede from corner,crosses and can't score from set plays with any mix of players

[Benson]

1 hour ago, Spit_It_Out said:

For me soon as Butcher came on the defence went from being decent to utterly all over the place.

Kettlewell says he goes over the match after the games vigorously well if he can't see how bad Butcher has become then I have no words for it.He offers us nothing would say it's a plus for our opposition if anything if he is playing 

Nobody can tell me that he is worth a new contract that's for sure.

Ffs I remember vv was getting pelters for being a lazy bastsrd.fans are so feckong fickle 

[SteelmaninOZ]

Ok here’s the gaffer 

 

[wellup83]

Being camped in our own half for the almost entirety of the second half ultimately cost us at least a point today. The adjustment to the back line forced or not didn't help either but to blame it on an individual on the park is way off. We were swamped by wave after wave of attack and our second half game plan invited it with open arms. They were there for the taking today as others have said and perhaps if Gent had taken the opportunity in the first half it may have worked out differently. You can't deny the quality they have either. The boy who came on at half time and scored the equaliser turned the game on it's head. I just hope we can lift ourselves sufficiently to get a result on Wednesday and hope today hasn't knocked the stuffing out of us. Livi away is a cup final in my view.

[wellfan]

17 minutes ago, Benson said:

The fucking crosses from wide areas cost us the game,nullify that and its been our problem all season with or without butcher,we concede from corner,crosses and can't score from set plays with any mix of players

And that buck stops with the manager, who's now been here for over a year and has had two transfer windows. Shite players and poor tactics don't pick themselves. 

[robsterwood]

2nd half was like the Alamo. Fie sure Livingston will fire crosses into box. Kelly staying in his line meant that header to make it 1. 1 was simple. The guy has a free header.

[bobbybingo]

5 minutes ago, robsterwood said:

2nd half was like the Alamo. Fie sure Livingston will fire crosses into box. Kelly staying in his line meant that header to make it 1. 1 was simple. The guy has a free header.

He was between Mugabi and Casey. You think Kelly should have come out for that?

[robsterwood]

1 minute ago, bobbybingo said:

He was between Mugabi and Casey. You think Kelly should have come out for that?

Don't think he comes out for any cross balls. Yes defence should have cleared it or at least made it difficult for him

[Coatsy]

Paper thin squad we ran out of legs and bench options and completly lost our shape when Nicholson came on but we gave as good as we got for long periods in this game against a team with vast resources. No complaints with application a draw was a fair result. Only critisim i have is when their big guy came on up front we should have man marked him out of the game.