New Investment Options

[David]

7 minutes ago, santheman said:

If EB's proposal wins then we're into different territory altogether and I fear for the survival of the WS in its present form and can see a lot of acrimony surfacing from within the club and the fans.

I've noticed that many people are saying that if Barmack wins the vote, they will cancel their contributions to the Society. They feel that their funds would essentially be used to finance the day-to-day running of the club under the control of a millionaire American chairman. I understand their perspective and will likely do the same.

However, I'm not sure that would disappoint Erik too much, despite what he says.

There's the £1.35 million commitment from the Society built into his plan for a reason. I personally believe that much of it is based on him guessing the Society won't be able to meet those numbers, which would effectively cause some sort of forfeit accompanied by penalties.

I've asked numerous times what those penalties will be, but have received no concrete answers.

I also find his desire to remove the loan that is, I believe, secured against the stadium very interesting. Would I be surprised if the money to cover any shortfall in Society contributions over the six years is claimed via the loan being waived? I would not.

[wellfan]

The Well Society's latest update (from a new website by the looks of things):

https://thewellsociety.uk/?mc_cid=08df14fae0&mc_eid=ede5027643

[santheman]

8 minutes ago, David said:

I've noticed that many people are saying that if Barmack wins the vote, they will cancel their contributions to the Society. They feel that their funds would essentially be used to finance the day-to-day running of the club under the control of a millionaire American chairman. I understand their perspective and will likely do the same.

However, I'm not sure that would disappoint Erik too much, despite what he says.

There's the £1.35 million commitment from the Society built into his plan for a reason. I personally believe that much of it is based on him guessing the Society won't be able to meet those numbers, which would effectively cause some sort of forfeit accompanied by penalties.

I've asked numerous times what those penalties will be, but have received no concrete answers.

I also find his desire to remove the loan that is, I believe, secured against the stadium very interesting. Would I be surprised if the money to cover any shortfall in Society contributions over the six years is claimed via the loan being waived? I would not.

Aye

Some people need to wake up to the fact that everything in this proposal is loaded in his favour.

Yet there's still some who are saying "but it's money we wouldn't otherwise have" without realising the ramifications or totally dismissing what the WS have published.

If I go by my circle of friends who are mostly WS members and who I gauge as a typical cross selection of ages and abilities then I think this will get kicked into touch.

[David]

12 minutes ago, santheman said:

Aye

Some people need to wake up to the fact that everything in this proposal is loaded in his favour.

Yet there's still some who are saying "but it's money we wouldn't otherwise have" without realising the ramifications or totally dismissing what the WS have published.

If I go by my circle of friends who are mostly WS members and who I gauge as a typical cross selection of ages and abilities then I think this will get kicked into touch.

I'm fairly sure it will get kicked into touch, but what has to be highlighted is how absolutely ludicrous this whole process has been. I've never seen anything like it in the business world.

[Cameron_Mcd]

2 minutes ago, David said:

I'm fairly sure it will get kicked into touch, but what has to be highlighted is how absolutely ludicrous this whole process has been. I've never seen anything like it in the business world.

I'm not sure to be honest, the amount of moron's I've seen on Facebook over the last few days has made me seriously doubt if it'll be knocked back. I think it'll probably end up being close.

[santheman]

4 minutes ago, David said:

I'm fairly sure it will get kicked into touch, but what has to be highlighted is how absolutely ludicrous this whole process has been. I've never seen anything like it in the business world.

The only time I see anything like this is when a company is in serious financial difficulties and someone comes in with a ridiculous takeover/merger offer which is accepted because nothing else is on the table and they're desperate and have no choice which is as far removed from our situation as it can get.

[Motherwellfc1991]

I’ve supported the club for 38 years and attended most weeks since . I joined the well society at the point of it starting and paid a decent wedge for many years as I’m sure many did and still do. I’ve also via business contributed to many club events and sponsorship over the years. On this basis some would  say I am pro society and blinded by Motherwell FC being the b all and end all through the majority of my life. 
 

I now don’t pay in and don’t have a season ticket or contribute as simply because I have different priorities now alongside the product on the pitch being pretty dross for a good few years and other than KVV there’s not been any real exciting footballers that made me want to contribute or buy a season ticket or pay into the society the past few years   - I’ve basically picked when it suited me to go of late. I won’t be alone in this statement and know for a fact I am not alone out the group of us who attend. 
 

We have a core loyal support and this is reflected in season ticket holders, attendances, well society payments and attendance at general Motherwell related events run by the club. This has been similar numbers over many many years despite the club glossing it up with free season tickets for kids etc. I am very sceptical that the well society can increase numbers or funds based on the above . I hope I’m wrong but I just can’t see it in this economic climate. Some of the society spins lead with the heart rather than the head in my opinion. 
 

I’m also sceptical over local business investment as surely parts of this will have been attempted before by the clubs commercial teams/boards over the years. Again being involved in business I can’t see many coming forward but  of course I hope I’m wrong . 
 

As I see it the club and society cut their cloth accordingly, we hope for premier league survival year on year but don’t expect much success similar to the last few years or much entertainment on the pitch . This keeps in with the community ethos , promoting the woman’s team and keeping the punching above our weight phrase often used for us. I’m not saying that is right or wrong but it’s where it’s taken us and will continue along similar lines. Youth development is critical to any potential windfalls but you also need a system in place, a structure in place and a 1st team manager willing to not fear playing youth . Something hasn’t clicked with this in the past 5 years with what has come through since turnbull with only miller making notable appearances. Whilst there’s a potential windfall with him money in the bank against him remains zero at present. 
 

From the outset the society were pushed to the side and didn’t have the say they should have in the running of the club or the big decisions - I firmly believe it was set up for a former employee to protect himself and his ego. Society monies should never have been passed to the club so easily without proper consultation but how much mis management led to the club needing the society to help.  Lets hope any new structure allows a proper say in matters should the society be the clubs future. That say needs to be structured and educated though to be successful . Being a Motherwell fan with Motherwell at heart isn’t the only important thing here - that dance has been done before and part of the reason we are where we are. Yes if we are this small wee community club fighting survival only it will be fine but should we not aspire to be more than that and seek a trophy as success? 

 

I’m yet to be fully persuaded at all by the investment proposal either by Erik. There’s little detail in the future , in investment, in where he sees us in a year, 3 years and 5 years but hopefully his response will shed some light and then allow me to cast my vote. Of course it’s a risk but what actually are the potential rewards?

So far this whole circus is very similar to the general election . A lot of chat, little action,  big buzz words and lacking detail. 
 

One thing we can’t have though is a future divide, bitterness and a split in the support . From both sides that’s the way I see this heading at the moment. This is about the club futures not individuals on both sides of the debate . 

[joewarkfanclub]

3 hours ago, Yodo said:

He’s employed by the owners of the club the WS 

No he isnt.

He is employed by the football club who are run by the Executive Board.

The Well Society are merely the major shareholder.

Hopefully after all this is over that will change.

[Kmcalpin]

Anyone attend the drop in event at Fir Park this evening?

[StAndrew7]

26 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Anyone attend the drop in event at Fir Park this evening?

I didn't personally but Vietnam91 has posted his summary on P&B. Apparently Tom Feely was there and fielded a fair few questions.

[Busta Nut]

I was there.

It was a good event. All the WS board members were there.

I felt the WS members who were against investment were spot on in any chat I had with any of them.

Tom Feeley was there too and to be fair he showed up and fought his corner. I didn't really feel there was any answers to the questions I asked of Tom and his decision and anything I said was met with a "what if" *insert worst case scenario.*

[steelboy]

1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

I was there.

It was a good event. All the WS board members were there.

I felt the WS members who were against investment were spot on in any chat I had with any of them.

Tom Feeley was there too and to be fair he showed up and fought his corner. I didn't really feel there was any answers to the questions I asked of Tom and his decision and anything I said was met with a "what if" *insert worst case scenario.*

I'm the same. I'm feeling optimistic after tonight. It was very clear that all the board members against the proposal are well prepared for the vote and moving the Society forward  and that they have put a huge amount of time and effort into dealing with this issue. 

As far as Tom Feeley goes I'll give him some credit for coming out and putting across his position but whenever detailed criticisms of the deal were addressed to him all he could respond with was "I would hope" or telling us to trust Barmack and other non WS board members. Considering that we are talking about the future of the club and millions of pounds of Well Society member's assets 'hope' and 'trust' are nowhere near good enough.

There was a point just before I left where Tom Feeley and Sean Baillie were discussing the future of the Well Society if Barmack takes over and the contrast in detail pretty much summed the night up. Sean clearly explained the likelihood of the WS not being able to meet the funding commitments in the deal and the danger of Barmack's marketing of the club leading to match going fans being outnumbered by new online fans in Society votes. All Tom could respond with was 'we'll deal with that in a few years if we have to'. 

 

[wellwell91]

42 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I was there.

It was a good event. All the WS board members were there.

I felt the WS members who were against investment were spot on in any chat I had with any of them.

Tom Feeley was there too and to be fair he showed up and fought his corner. I didn't really feel there was any answers to the questions I asked of Tom and his decision and anything I said was met with a "what if" *insert worst case scenario.*

There in lies the problem with a lot of people on here !!!!!

A good business will have a plan in place for the worst case scenario 

Whats the WS plan if we don’t attract all the thousands of new members and fans ????

Even when we’ve being doing well and playing exciting football our fan base barley moves 

[steelboy]

2 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

There in lies the problem with a lot of people on here !!!!!

A good business will have a plan in place for the worst case scenario 

Whats the WS plan if we don’t attract all the thousands of new members and fans ????

Even when we’ve being doing well and playing exciting football our fan base barley moves 

We've finished 3rd and played in Cup Finals under that model.

300 grand a year from Erik Barmack isn't going to change anything on the park.

[Mootherwell86]

3 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

There in lies the problem with a lot of people on here !!!!!

A good business will have a plan in place for the worst case scenario 

Whats the WS plan if we don’t attract all the thousands of new members and fans ????

Even when we’ve being doing well and playing exciting football our fan base barley moves 

Hiya Tom. 

[Kmcalpin]

Thanks for the updates from those who were there tonight. 

[texanwellfan]

6 minutes ago, steelboy said:

We've finished 3rd and played in Cup Finals under that model.

300 grand a year from Erik Barmack isn't going to change anything on the park.

But the idea is for Barmack to bring in more money/investment for the club so that there will be enough coming in to make a difference.  However, that’s pretty much a pig in a poke so far.  Seems to be very Trumpish, has an idea but no plan or details. 

[Busta Nut]

A few we other snippets I had:


Tom was also confident that with the "Motherwell men" on the board if the proposal went through there'd be no need for EB to have the deciding vote. Cos he felt the Motherwell men would prevent it. I pointed out it doesn't always work that way as an example, himself. Voted on the WS board to protect and maintain the Society, Only to vote against society's ownership.



When I mentioned we'd probably make up the EB money if not surpass it with the sale of Bair and Miller he said, "we'll sell Bair, We're not selling Miller."

Before going into the "what if" injury thing.

Make of that what you will. 



Similarly when I asked "what happens to the society if this deal goes through?"

Tom gave the ideal scenario where there is the same amount of members contributing and the Society have X amount of money for a back up.

I pointed out that I don't think that would be the case as many members, myself included, would stop their contributions. He couldn't fathom this, I was trying to put a point across "why would anyone contribute to something that has moved the goal posts and no longer stands for it's original purpose?" but it was a busy part of the room and the questions were flying at him.

[steelboy]

I'll try to summarise one of the best points I heard from a board member....

At the moment board members are sacrificing time they could be spending with their families or on their careers to contribute to the Society and club. Members are contributing money they have worked hard for. if Barmack's deal goes through any time or money put into the Society will be a free contribution to Erik Barmack making a profit on his investment. Why would anyone want to do that?

[StAndrew7]

31 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

There in lies the problem with a lot of people on here !!!!!

A good business will have a plan in place for the worst case scenario 

Whats the WS plan if we don’t attract all the thousands of new members and fans ????

Even when we’ve being doing well and playing exciting football our fan base barley moves 

We continue as we are, raising the money we already do and using player sales, league performance and other income to keep us sustainable. The club is in absolutely no immediate financial danger. The Chairman has said as much publicly.

Under the Exec Board's proposal, the safety net of the WS will diminish to practically zero over the course, even with its contributing membership remaining as it is (which it won't).

So that the begs the (so far unanswered) question; under Barmack's stewardship, who provides the safety net for the magical £750k funding gap in the doomsday scenario we keep hearing about?

[weeyin]

56 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

There in lies the problem with a lot of people on here !!!!!

A good business will have a plan in place for the worst case scenario 

Whats the WS plan if we don’t attract all the thousands of new members and fans ????

Even when we’ve being doing well and playing exciting football our fan base barley moves 

As others have said, we are doing fine without US money. If you look at our accounts since the Society took control, they are actually quite healthy. A lot of that is thanks to Les Hutchison who, when he took charge, articulated a very clear plan of how he wanted the club re-structured, how his money should be spent, how his loans should be paid back, how many new fans needed to join the Society, and what his exit plan was.

Exactly what you want to hear from an investor.

Exactly what we are NOT hearing from EB.

[weeyin]

51 minutes ago, steelboy said:

I'll try to summarise one of the best points I heard from a board member....

At the moment board members are sacrificing time they could be spending with their families or on their careers to contribute to the Society and club. Members are contributing money they have worked hard for. if Barmack's deal goes through any time or money put into the Society will be a free contribution to Erik Barmack making a profit on his investment. Why would anyone want to do that?

Exactly my thought. I have zero inclination to donate to EB's pension fund if he takes over the club.

[weeyin]

54 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

But the idea is for Barmack to bring in more money/investment for the club so that there will be enough coming in to make a difference.  However, that’s pretty much a pig in a poke so far.  Seems to be very Trumpish, has an idea but no plan or details. 

Also, all Trump's businesses go bankrupt and/or end up having to settle lawsuits.

[Yabba's Turd]

5 hours ago, Mootherwell86 said:

Hiya Tom. 

Joined March 10, 2011

I highly doubt it

[sinjy]

Barnack's deal is a no from me. For £300,000 he gets to be chairman with two of his people on the board of eight. If the CEO or FD get a better offer, get pissed off or are driven out EB can appoint another pal and it's now 4 of 8 and with his casting vote now has full control. I have seen nothing of a business plan other than some vague notions of a documentary and expanding interest in us in the USA. He has admitted knowing very little about running a soccer club. 

For his investment of £1.9 million he increases his shareholding from zero 47 per cent. In contrast for investing £1.3 million the Society sees it's share dropping from 70 per cent to 50.1 per cent. That is just mad.

With the Well Society Board at least we have people with the club's interest at heart, not some unknown.

As a Well Society member and also a shareholder that is two nos from me.