Clackscat Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 Just looked again at the WS result e mail, 993 votes cast 36% turnout. That equates to 2758 members entitled to vote, so even allowing for junior steel members that is still below 3800 or so members. Am wondering therefore if there was a minimum contribution requirement to vote as queried by folks either on here or P&B, which would disenfranchise new monthly contribution members?, (hope not), or is there any other reason for the apparent numbers anomaly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 1 Author Report Share Posted March 1 Just an idea but what if the club was to issue new shares to private investors, including fans. That way the club could ensure that the Society retained overall control. In addition the Society could implement its proposal. A win win scenario. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villageman Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 13 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Just an idea but what if the club was to issue new shares to private investors, including fans. That way the club could ensure that the Society retained overall control. In addition the Society could implement its proposal. A win win scenario. I think I posted elsewhere, maybe not as some of my posts appear to be missing. It was : Pockets of share at a value of £250. Would need 2000 fans or others to reach a total of £500k.How many would do it. Based on only 1500 members contributing £10 average can't see many opting in. Plus my understanding is a similar figure could be required next year too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 59 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Where's the source for this if you don't mind me asking. How can we raise two million. Huge ask in my view given the well society fan numbers currently paying into the club. Posted on Pie & Bovril. We can raise £2m by engaging with our fanbase to increase membership of the Well Society or offering shares up to a non controlling interest. Or as I said, sell Lennon Miller. Given our model is to develop and sell on players, then selling the entire club for the price of one transfer makes no sense..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clackscat Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 10 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Just an idea but what if the club was to issue new shares to private investors, including fans. That way the club could ensure that the Society retained overall control. In addition the Society could implement its proposal. A win win scenario. Sometimes the best ideas are the simplest; emotionally I value my small shareholding in the club, more than my Well Society input which has cost me far more, so I just wonder if that might appeal to those who haven't engaged with the WS. That said I'm sure there will be legal etc barriers to overcome and I wonder just how much could be raised, and it would be a one off. It would buy time with a cash injection, that would then give the WS time to formulate their strategy going forward although I wonder as I write this would it make life more difficult to raise monies afterwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 26 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: Posted on Pie & Bovril. We can raise £2m by engaging with our fanbase to increase membership of the Well Society or offering shares up to a non controlling interest. Or as I said, sell Lennon Miller. Given our model is to develop and sell on players, then selling the entire club for the price of one transfer makes no sense..... I would prefer option one. Simply because I know we are a selling club and always have been. But we are still struggling even so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 19 minutes ago, Clackscat said: Sometimes the best ideas are the simplest; emotionally I value my small shareholding in the club, more than my Well Society input which has cost me far more, so I just wonder if that might appeal to those who haven't engaged with the WS. That said I'm sure there will be legal etc barriers to overcome and I wonder just how much could be raised, and it would be a one off. It would buy time with a cash injection, that would then give the WS time to formulate their strategy going forward although I wonder as I write this would it make life more difficult to raise monies afterwards? Im already as WS Member. But I would certainly consider buying private shares from the Society to raise revenue. Not sure what 19% would.raise, but they would retain controlling interest whilst raising cash. Although, that would go into the Society. So maybe a share issue to dilute to 51% would be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 54 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Just an idea but what if the club was to issue new shares to private investors, including fans. That way the club could ensure that the Society retained overall control. In addition the Society could implement its proposal. A win win scenario. For me that's a great idea Dave, a straightforward share issue, set a price and then people can buy the amount they want, they then have the chance to have a direct input at AGM's etc without going g through a 3rd party like the WS. For me with the limitations of our fan base asking existing contributors which from the recent numbers posted on this forum only account for about 50% of the WS members to up their monthly payments significantly is not and never will be a viable option. I have no interest in committing to a regular contribution to the WS but I would quite happily buy shares in the club if given the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dossertillidie2 Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 2 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: For me that's a great idea Dave, a straightforward share issue, set a price and then people can buy the amount they want, they then have the chance to have a direct input at AGM's etc without going g through a 3rd party like the WS. For me with the limitations of our fan base asking existing contributors which from the recent numbers posted on this forum only account for about 50% of the WS members to up their monthly payments significantly is not and never will be a viable option. I have no interest in committing to a regular contribution to the WS but I would quite happily buy shares in the club if given the chance. If we did a share option I for one would be onboard with that but I can’t help think we still need another society type entity to offer some level of protection with a view to being fully sustainable on drawing on neither of these entities cover option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dossertillidie2 Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 Just now, Dossertillidie2 said: If we did a share option I for one would be onboard with that but I can’t help think we still need another society type entity to offer some level of protection with a view to being fully sustainable on drawing on neither of these entities cover option By society type entity I do really mean a corporate/individual to give us a cushion in return for an investment in for example player sales which ultimately has to be our focus on becoming self sustainable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 3 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: For me that's a great idea Dave, a straightforward share issue, set a price and then people can buy the amount they want, they then have the chance to have a direct input at AGM's etc without going g through a 3rd party like the WS. For me with the limitations of our fan base asking existing contributors which from the recent numbers posted on this forum only account for about 50% of the WS members to up their monthly payments significantly is not and never will be a viable option. I have no interest in committing to a regular contribution to the WS but I would quite happily buy shares in the club if given the chance. If they can afford it. This is the issue for me. I can afford to give to the well society but probably wouldn't be able to afford shares. That's just me though and my own financial situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 1 Author Report Share Posted March 1 My idea would involve a new share issue by the club so that any proceeds would go directly to the club and not the Society. That way the Society's shareholding would drop from 71%. As the current club directors can control who buys shares, then any malign actors would be excluded. Also, the Society's share would not drop below 51%. This might also attract some "medium scale" investors like local business people. By itself, that would not be sufficient to plug our financial gap. However it might buy us some leeway and allow the Society to draw up and implement its package of proposals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throughthelaces Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 4 hours ago, steelboy said: It's a strange world where people who have been going to Fir Park aren't football people but an Indonesian conglomerate or an American TV company would be considered to be. The board have said at the AGM that potential investors want the controlling interest in the club. That opens us up to selling the stadium, taking on debt and money flowing out the club to the new owners. A minority shareholding and a seat on the board won't make any difference if investors with a majority want to go down that road. When I say football people I mean people who can take the club forward in terms of on the pitch. The club needs some fresh eyes from a business and financial perspective. Tell me if we want to compete and keep hold of our better players or sign some quality players how can we do that on our current model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 7 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said: When I say football people I mean people who can take the club forward in terms of on the pitch. The club needs some fresh eyes from a business and financial perspective. Tell me if we want to compete and keep hold of our better players or sign some quality players how can we do that on our current model. Exactly this. Which is why I voted the way I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 7 hours ago, Throughthelaces said: Tell me if we want to compete and keep hold of our better players or sign some quality players how can we do that on our current model. We've not been able to keep hold of our better players for the past 30 years. Lambert and McKinnon leaving on Bosmans changed everything. The question isn't about keeping hold of our better players it's about how to do we make sure we are signing enough Premiership level players every summer to sustain us. People need to define what 'compete' actually means us for us. There is no outside investment which puts us on a level playing field financially with Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen. Our optimistic aims are always going to be Top six, grab a Euro spot and have a good cup run whether fan owned or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 8 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: My idea would involve a new share issue by the club so that any proceeds would go directly to the club and not the Society. That way the Society's shareholding would drop from 71%. As the current club directors can control who buys shares, then any malign actors would be excluded. Also, the Society's share would not drop below 51%. This might also attract some "medium scale" investors like local business people. By itself, that would not be sufficient to plug our financial gap. However it might buy us some leeway and allow the Society to draw up and implement its package of proposals This is definitely preferable to what Im reading regarding the 2 offers currently on the table (if correct) and worth exploring. It feels to me like the club board had way too much control over the Well Society and limited its power due to the way it was implemented. I feel as if there is scope for growth there if it is allowed to breath. But like you say it needs time, and time needs money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 2 Author Report Share Posted March 2 50 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: It feels to me like the club board had way too much control over the Well Society and limited its power due to the way it was implemented. I feel as if there is scope for growth there if it is allowed to breath. But like you say it needs time, and time needs money. The club directors now need to act quickly, and in tandem with the Society. The shareholders and Society members need to be told basic details of the bids, these 2 and any others, very quickly. I do understand that some details might be commercially sensitive. In the meantime, the Society needs to get cracking working up its proposal. To me, there's no point whatsoever in continuing with lengthy negotiations on the leaked bid (if they are accurate) only for the Society members to chuck them out en masse. We don't want to get to the point of having to vote on detailed proposals in September, August, July or even June, only for the membership to deem them totally unacceptable. What then? The Society will need time to work up its plan. To those Society members against any outside bid, I'd say don't worry. I'm confident that the vast majority of those who voted in favour would reject any ridiculous offers. The recent vote is only advisory and is no way at all binding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 10 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: Im already as WS Member. But I would certainly consider buying private shares from the Society to raise revenue. Not sure what 19% would.raise, but they would retain controlling interest whilst raising cash. Although, that would go into the Society. So maybe a share issue to dilute to 51% would be better? Sorry to take this point in isolation amongst others - how much was raised the last time the idea was put into practice not so long ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 23 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: The club directors now need to act quickly, and in tandem with the Society. The shareholders and Society members need to be told basic details of the bids, these 2 and any others, very quickly. I do understand that some details might be commercially sensitive. In the meantime, the Society needs to get cracking working up its proposal. To me, there's no point whatsoever in continuing with lengthy negotiations on the leaked bid (if they are accurate) only for the Society members to chuck them out en masse. We don't want to get to the point of having to vote on detailed proposals in September, August, July or even June, only for the membership to deem them totally unacceptable. What then? The Society will need time to work up its plan. To those Society members against any outside bid, I'd say don't worry. I'm confident that the vast majority of those who voted in favour would reject any ridiculous offers. The recent vote is only advisory and is no way at all binding. I'm not usually one to sound like I wear a tinfoil hat, but I'm a little worried for two main reasons. The longer the lack of a permanent CEO, failure to communicate appropriately, departing Chairman, and begging for investment fiasco go on at the MFC Board level, the more I question its motives, governance, decision-making, etc. I'm sure McMahon and Weir won't do anything to harm the Club deliberately to suit their interests, but mistakes and rushed deals can happen when individuals are compromised/scunnered/leaving/etc. The more information we find out about the Well Society's numbers etc, the more I question its ability to undertake its function appropriately. There are many unknowns and concerns about it, which is not what we need when deciding its future role in the Club. However, that may change with the new WS board members, but it could be too late. Can anyone alleviate my concerns with a better perspective, or do we need a complete reset with/without the Well Society? We know the MFC Board is being reset. For transparency, I voted against the WS losing its majority shareholding because I believe we need fan ownership as a controlling interest at the table. I am not against bringing others to that table, however, but would they want to invest for a minority stake and voice? Probably not. So, for me, it's either the WS or not now, but it doesn't look like the WS is a financially capable or well-structured enough entity at this stage to take the lead. As I said above, though, others may be able to ease those concerns with further commentary on the reality of the overall scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Onthefringes said: Sorry to take this point in isolation amongst others - how much was raised the last time the idea was put into practice not so long ago? Good point. I dont know. I kinda put that post up whilst thinking out loud. On reflection a share issue diluting the WS to 51% probably makes more sense as KMcAlpin says. Obviously wouldnt be sufficient going forward but would maybe buy the Society sufficient time to put forward and implement their own proposals whilst at the same time looking at other offers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 27 minutes ago, wellfan said: I'm not usually one to sound like I wear a tinfoil hat, but I'm a little worried for two main reasons. The longer the lack of a permanent CEO, failure to communicate appropriately, departing Chairman, and begging for investment fiasco go on at the MFC Board level, the more I question its motives, governance, decision-making, etc. I'm sure McMahon and Weir won't do anything to harm the Club deliberately to suit their interests, but mistakes and rushed deals can happen when individuals are compromised/scunnered/leaving/etc. The more information we find out about the Well Society's numbers etc, the more I question its ability to undertake its function appropriately. There are many unknowns and concerns about it, which is not what we need when deciding its future role in the Club. However, that may change with the new WS board members, but it could be too late. Can anyone alleviate my concerns with a better perspective, or do we need a complete reset with/without the Well Society? We know the MFC Board is being reset. For transparency, I voted against the WS losing its majority shareholding because I believe we need fan ownership as a controlling interest at the table. I am not against bringing others to that table, however, but would they want to invest for a minority stake and voice? Probably not. So, for me, it's either the WS or not now, but it doesn't look like the WS is a financially capable or well-structured enough entity at this stage to take the lead. As I said above, though, others may be able to ease those concerns with further commentary on the reality of the overall scenario. I think the WS has had a bit of a reset with the recent elections. A lot of younger board members with fresh ideas of how to improve things and make it better. Together with a reset on the Board proper it feels like a great opportunity for the club to re-invent iself and make the changes necessary to move forward successfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 3 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: I think the WS has had a bit of a reset with the recent elections. A lot of younger board members with fresh ideas of how to improve things and make it better. Together with a reset on the Board proper it feels like a great opportunity for the club to re-invent iself and make the changes necessary to move forward successfully. This is what I am hoping for. I don't want to lose the Society. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 13 hours ago, Villageman said: Sorry not my perception. No engagement by WS unless you include a reply from Sally to an email I sent that asked questions, made comments and suggestions re membership categories. I believe that there have been face to face sessions (focus groups)with the well society at Fir Park over the last six weeks and they've been advertised on Twitter by Phil Speedie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said: Good point. I dont know. I kinda put that post up whilst thinking out loud. On reflection a share issue diluting the WS to 51% probably makes more sense as KMcAlpin says. Obviously wouldnt be sufficient going forward but would maybe buy the Society sufficient time to put forward and implement their own proposals whilst at the same time looking at other offers? Unfortunately time or the timeline of investment interest doesn’t stack up for many. I’d say co opted board members Dickie & Feeley are complicit in this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said: Good point. I dont know. I kinda put that post up whilst thinking out loud. On reflection a share issue diluting the WS to 51% probably makes more sense as KMcAlpin says. Obviously wouldnt be sufficient going forward but would maybe buy the Society sufficient time to put forward and implement their own proposals whilst at the same time looking at other offers? Have the well society said they want to put forward a proposal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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