Motherwell Vs St Johnstone 19/05/24

[wunderwell]

2 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Surely people can have different opinions. I'm happy that we avoided relegation. It doesn't mean I don't want us to do better. As for most of us. What does that mean? Most people on here. Most supporters? 

Agreed. Self Evident there is a division just now on how people see things.
There is probably no majority. So there is no "most of us"
Maybe we should do a poll!

[Mccus28]

3 minutes ago, wunderwell said:

Agreed. Self Evident there is a division just now on how people see things.
There is probably no majority. So there is no "most of us"
Maybe we should do a poll!

If people in our fanbase are happy with this season then fair do's but its a no from me.

Do I think we will improve next season..................I hope so.

Im looking forward to next season and happy that this one is over, there have been some good results and great goals flecked throughout the season but inconsistant performers, incredibly poor cup runs and a leaking defence have been our downfall.

As I say, if people are happy with a 9th place finish then im kinda shocked to be honest

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, wunderwell said:

Controversially I wouldn't resign SOD or McGinn.

I would re-sign one but not both. We will require experience in the team. SOD is a few years younger than McGinn. The latter has been a steadying influence in defence but has tailed off, of late. He'll be 34 this year. 

[wellgirl]

15 minutes ago, Mccus28 said:

If people in our fanbase are happy with this season then fair do's but its a no from me.

Do I think we will improve next season..................I hope so.

Im looking forward to next season and happy that this one is over, there have been some good results and great goals flecked throughout the season but inconsistant performers, incredibly poor cup runs and a leaking defence have been our downfall.

As I say, if people are happy with a 9th place finish then im kinda shocked to be honest

It's not about being happy or not happy as far as I'm concerned. It's absolutely fine as far as I'm concerned to be ok with avoiding relegation.

I think given the shit run we were on its fine to be ok about where we finished. Other people are perfectly entitled to be upset about our league placing. 

And tbh it really doesn't matter that much whether people agree with me or I agree with them. 

[wellgirl]

17 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I would re-sign one but not both. We will require experience in team. SOD is a few years younger than McGinn. The latter has been a steadying influence in defence but has tailed off, of late. He'll be 34 this year. 

McGinn is 19 months older than SOD. SOD has just turned 32. 

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, Happy Dosser said:

I suppose your definition of "supporting" and mine are not quite the same.

No shit, Sherlock. 

1 hour ago, Happy Dosser said:

I've had over sixty years of ups and downs with MFC and know how hard it is for us to survive in the stacked deck of Scottish football. And , no, I don't expect a medal but it does perhaps offer some perspective when considering our difficulties.

That’s me told. I guess I’m not qualified enough as a fan or have enough time-served perspective to be able to offer an opinion as a supporter. 

1 hour ago, Happy Dosser said:

Most of the current squad will be gone next season anyway

That’s not what I wrote. 

1 hour ago, Happy Dosser said:

were you so voluble about his two predecessors, when we were in free fall post-Sligo and its SPL aftermath? Or did your negativity have a longer history?

I've discussed at length my dislike of the arrogant Alexander on this forum. Keep up. 

1 hour ago, Happy Dosser said:

If I were so convinced   things were going to be  absolute shite in August and found so much at Fir Park  unsatisfactory, I think I would find another interest/activity to spare me such angst.

Good for you, but we’ve already discerned above that we’re not the same. 

1 hour ago, Happy Dosser said:

Good to know that you'll be around to support the club next year, though, once the manager and all the  crap players have been removed.

Living the dream. 

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

Grow up. 

Grown up long ago, wise enough not to get obsessed with SK like you but you batter in with your dislike of him you've got a few months now to save up your comments in time for the new season starting, have a happy summer.

[bobbybingo]

49 minutes ago, Mccus28 said:

Are you having a laugh!!!!

If you're happy with the way the season has gone just because we avoided relegation then it says more about you than most of us.

I can't believe you are ok with the winless run, remind me again how many games it was...............

I suppose you loved our cup runs as well............

 

I suppose it depends on how often you've seen all this before. You don't need to be drawing your pension to remember a longer run without a win. A couple of seasons later we lifted the cup. The following year, a relegation fight. 2 years later, could've won the league. Real highs, real lows.

I don't see anyone saying everything's great, but if anything, it's below average, not catastrophic or unprecedented. This season's history and it'll be all change by August, so why get our knickers in a twist about things we have no influence over? I'm hoping it's gonnae be one of those good years you never see coming.

[wellfan]

11 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Grown up long ago, wise enough not to get obsessed with SK like you but you batter in with your dislike of him you've got a few months now to save up your comments in time for the new season starting, have a happy summer.

For all I'm apparently obsessed with Kettlewell, many here are equally obsessed with people like me who dare to call a spade a spade. See you next season.

[Happy Dosser]

11 minutes ago, wellfan said:

No shit, Sherlock. 

That’s me told. I guess I’m not qualified enough as a fan or have enough time-served perspective to be able to offer an opinion as a supporter. 

That’s not what I wrote. 

I've discussed at length my dislike of the arrogant Alexander on this forum. Keep up. 

Good for you, but we’ve already discerned above that we’re not the same. 

Living the dream. 

Oh,  please,  keep offering your opinions and living your particular   "dream" as long as you like but I do wonder how much of it brings you much positive satisfaction.

I'm sure you'll have quite a lot of scope next year for your negatively-loaded  views, given the inherent difficulties for a club of our size, irrespective of who is manager.

Plough on.

[MelvinBragg]

2 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

 I don't get why SK changes to a 4 4 2, ye let's bring bevis back and have absolute mare for 2nd goal.  Bair pen shocking and Nicholson looked like guy you bring Fir game of 7 a sides when you are a man short.

To me it looked like 352 as usual with bizarre choice to play Nicholson at wing back. Which might partly explain why he was poor.. 

[SteelmaninOZ]

2 hours ago, Happy Dosser said:

Well, given the generally negative remarks you make at length and so frequently, I suppose your definition of "supporting" and mine are not quite the same. I've had over sixty years of ups and downs with MFC and know how hard it is for us to survive in the stacked deck of Scottish football. And , no, I don't expect a medal but it does perhaps offer some perspective when considering our difficulties.

Most of the current squad will be gone next season anyway (surely an improvement?) and if Kettlewell is so  "crap", were you so voluble about his two predecessors, when we were in free fall post-Sligo and its SPL aftermath? Or did your negativity have a longer history?

If I were so convinced   things were going to be  absolute shite in August and found so much at Fir Park  unsatisfactory, I think I would find another interest/activity to spare me such angst.

Good to know that you'll be around to support the club next year, though, once the manager and all the  crap players have been removed.

 

 

Well said old boy. 👍

[StAndrew7]

39 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

To me it looked like 352 as usual with bizarre choice to play Nicholson at wing back. Which might partly explain why he was poor.. 

Aye it was definitely this; McGinn, Blaney and Mugabi warmed up as a three, which makes it all the more bizarre to have Nicholson at RWB, particularly shoe horning him in there with Paton playing at 10 as a non-entity.

St Johnstone rightly targeted that side to get their crosses in and to pin us back. They also nullified Gent for the most part.

[MFCL84]

Well that's the season over and like a number of others, I'm glad to see the back of it. A season that started brightly, sank to unbelievable depths in the over-long winless run and then recovered enough to see us safe from relegation and play-off places. The 9th place finish is about right. I don't believe that we are better than any of the teams that finished above us and only 3 points taken from St.Johnstone might suggest that we are lucky not to be 10th.

As for the football, in my opinion,  it has generally been dreadful to watch; our ball retention is very poor and defensive organisation is awful, but we do seem to be able to score goals. Someone will have to explain to me how we manage the goal-scoring, because I don't see a creative pattern to our play. There have been some worldies this season, maybe more than we are used to (thanks Blair Spittal), but that doesn't explain why we are so high in the goal-scoring chart.

I have no idea what we'll get next season. Another close season with a huge rebuild required. I'll be there though, like so many others that contribute to this forum. 

COYW

 

 

[wellgirl]

4 minutes ago, MFCL84 said:

Well that's the season over and like a number of others, I'm glad to see the back of it. A season that started brightly, sank to unbelievable depths in the over-long winless run and then recovered enough to see us safe from relegation and play-off places. The 9th place finish is about right. I don't believe that we are better than any of the teams that finished above us and only 3 points taken from St.Johnstone might suggest that we are lucky not to be 10th.

As for the football, in my opinion,  it has generally been dreadful to watch; our ball retention is very poor and defensive organisation is awful, but we do seem to be able to score goals. Someone will have to explain to me how we manage the goal-scoring, because I don't see a creative pattern to our play. There have been some worldies this season, maybe more than we are used to (thanks Blair Spittal), but that doesn't explain why we are so high in the goal-scoring chart.

I have no idea what we'll get next season. Another close season with a huge rebuild required. I'll be there though, like so many others that contribute to this forum. 

COYW

 

 

Bair, Spittal and Biereth with lots of others scoring the odd goal. 

[Kmcalpin]

Pretty much the result I expected, but not achieved in the way I envisaged it. I’m not overly fussed that the players hit the beach, but I was deeply concerned that our manager appeared to. That sent out the wrong message beforehand to the players.  St Johnstone were always going to be up for it and fortune certainly favoured the brave in their case. The game itself was a cameo of our season; losing cheap first goals; defensive calamities; throwing on 500 strikers willy nilly late on.  We took 3 points out of a possible 12 against St Johnstone this season. Let that sink in.

What concerned me most was the manager’s team selection and tactics. Going by the personnel he selected, it looked like a very ambitious attacking team, but the formation seemed to contradict that as it appeared to be very defensive. In other words, square pegs in round holes.  I thought at first it was a back four but then seemed to revert to a back 3 with Nicholson playing wing back, as Melvin Bragg suggests.  Nicholson was played out of position as was Paton and that made them look ineffective. Up front Bair was all too often left stranded and isolated. Our confused defensive formation was definitely a factor in St Johnstone’ s first goal. All so avoidable.

The subs too baffled me. I simply don’t understand Vale playing in a deep midfield role and SK is was not getting the best out of him there. I didn’t get the need to hook Lennon Miller nor bring on Callum Butcher. Just downright confusing. Clearly the players didn’t fully understand the set up either.

Like others, I would have understood if he’d stuck with our normal set up but maybe brought in a player or two who is staying or perhaps giving the likes of Luca Ross or Dylan Wells 10/15/20 minutes in the second half. By unnecessarily tinkering with the line up and tactics today and overthinking, he set the tone for the players not performing at their best.  

All these issues are part of much deeper concern for me. They indicate that SK is not learning from his mistakes.  That does not bode well for next season. Overall he’s done quite well this season given the constraints he’s had to work under like budget limitations; injuries; and having to work with another manager’s players, deadwood and all. He’s kept us in the Premiership finishing in 9^th spot. He has a huge summer ahead in terms of team building.  If he continues to make the same mistakes, the fans will not be so forgiving next term.       

[wellgirl]

4 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Pretty much the result I expected, but not achieved in the way I envisaged it. I’m not overly fussed that the players hit the beach, but I was deeply concerned that our manager appeared to. That sent out the wrong message beforehand to the players.  St Johnstone were always going to be up for it and fortune certainly favoured the brave in their case. The game itself was a cameo of our season; losing cheap first goals; defensive calamities; throwing on 500 strikers willy nilly late on.  We took 3 points out of a possible 12 against St Johnstone this season. Let that sink in.

 

What concerned me most was the manager’s team selection and tactics. Going by the personnel he selected, it looked like a very ambitious attacking team, but the formation seemed to contradict that as it appeared to be very defensive. In other words, square pegs in round holes.  I thought at first it was a back four but then seemed to revert to a back 3 with Nicholson playing wing back, as Melvin Bragg suggests.  Nicholson was played out of position as was Paton and that made them look ineffective. Up front Bair was all too often left stranded and isolated. Our confused defensive formation was definitely a factor in St Johnstone’ s first goal. All so avoidable.

 

The subs too baffled me. I simply don’t understand Vale playing in a deep midfield role and SK is was not getting the best out of him there. I didn’t get the need to hook Lennon Miller nor bring on Callum Butcher. Just downright confusing. Clearly the players didn’t fully understand the set up either.

 

Like others, I would have understood if he’d stuck with our normal set up but maybe brought in a player or two who is staying or perhaps giving the likes of Luca Ross or Dylan Wells 10/15/20 minutes in the second half. By unnecessarily tinkering with the line up and tactics today and overthinking, he set the tone for the players not performing at their best.  

 

All these issues are part of much deeper concern for me. They indicate that SK is not learning from his mistakes.  That does not bode well for next season. Overall he’s done quite well this season given the constraints he’s had to work under like budget limitations; injuries; and having to work with another manager’s players, deadwood and all. He’s kept us in the Premiership finishing in 9^th spot. He has a huge summer ahead in terms of team building.  If he continues to make the same mistakes, the fans will not be so forgiving next term.       

 

Ferrie and Ross did get game time. They were subbed on in the 77th minute. 

[Kmcalpin]

15 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Ferrie and Ross did get game time. They were subbed on in the 77th minute. 

They did indeed, but the team itself was chopped and changed unnecessarily from the off. I expected a settled familiar line up to start, with the young lads being introduced gradually late on to a recognised set up. That didn't happen. They were asked to fit in with a disorganised and ineffective hotch potch of a formation.

[SteelmaninOZ]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

They did indeed, but the team itself was chopped and changed unnecessarily from the off. I expected a settled familiar line up to start, with the young lads being introduced gradually late on to a recognised set up. That didn't happen. They were asked to fit in with a disorganised and ineffective hotch potch of a formation.

This 

[robsterwood]

If people are happy with 9th and no cup run. Whatever makes you happy. Yes we are all entitled to opinion. Some that have been to 91 final maybe have higher expectations. Some happy to stay up every year. I always hope for top 6 and possible euro place and possible cup run. The rest don't seem to be too much ahead of us though Aberdeen and Hibs will improve, So top 6 chances slimmer. Think Dundee over achieved and huge part of Thier form down to the Liverpool loan. We were unlucky in that regard with Biereth. Still think Loan market let's us get higher standard of player. Roll on next season.

[Mccus28]

7 hours ago, bobbybingo said:

I suppose it depends on how often you've seen all this before. You don't need to be drawing your pension to remember a longer run without a win. A couple of seasons later we lifted the cup. The following year, a relegation fight. 2 years later, could've won the league. Real highs, real lows.

I don't see anyone saying everything's great, but if anything, it's below average, not catastrophic or unprecedented. This season's history and it'll be all change by August, so why get our knickers in a twist about things we have no influence over? I'm hoping it's gonnae be one of those good years you never see coming.

Totally agree with you, my reaction was more toward the condescending reply Spiderpig typed from his high horse to my original post.

We've had worse seasons and we've had better..................the joys of being a Motherwell fan

[bobbybingo]

32 minutes ago, Mccus28 said:

We've had worse seasons and we've had better..................the joys of being a Motherwell fan

Very true. We finished 9th and conceded 69 goals the season prior to reaching both cup finals. It's always darkest just before you put ten bob in the meter.

[MJC]

12 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

dont forget the utterly inept efforts in the Cups....

Nothing new there, we are utterly hopeless in Cup competitions. 
 

If it was up to me I would make it clear to the manager and the players that from next season any cup exits before the Quarter Finals to anyone outwith the Old Firm, Hearts, Aberdeen or Hibs will result in a hefty fine for each and every one of them. 

[coldonmac]

It's not all bad news, according to the official site ... 

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/05/19/motherwell-3-1-st-johnstone/

[Mad Dog]

13 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

to be fair how can the manager legislate for some of our comedy gold that passes for defending. He cant so he needs to move on the regular culprits. Im relieved that will probably be Mugabis last ever game for us. As big a bomb scare now as he was when he first signed for us. My worry is , if rumours are true, we've recruited Obileye who on the basis of what Ive seen is worse.

Is the Obileye thing a genuine rumour or merely a case of Chinese Whispers?