What A Difference A Year Makes

[joewarkfanclub]

This time last year Kettlewell was still manager and we were about to get pumped out of the Scottish Cup by a poor St Johnstone team.

Who would have thought, back then, we would be getting treated to the best football most of us have ever seen at Fir Park and with a squad whose value is currently well in excess of the Miller Millions.

Just goes to show you what a twist of fate and some bold decision making can do for a club like ours.

Its quite frankly laughable that the old board didnt think that fan ownership was a going concern and we needed the outside investment of someone with absolutely no experience if running a football club.

Penny for the thoughts of all the Colins' now?

[grizzlyg]

52 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

This time last year Kettlewell was still manager and we were about to get pumped out of the Scottish Cup by a poor St Johnstone team.

Who would have thought, back then, we would be getting treated to the best football most of us have ever seen at Fir Park and with a squad whose value is currently well in excess of the Miller Millions.

Just goes to show you what a twist of fate and some bold decision making can do for a club like ours.

Its quite frankly laughable that the old board didnt think that fan ownership was a going concern and we needed the outside investment of someone with absolutely no experience if running a football club.

Penny for the thoughts of all the Colins' now?

Colins?.    Yup great transformation and full credit to board for finding wimmer and then Askou who has been unbelievable.   Just loving this season 

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, grizzlyg said:

Colins?.    Yup great transformation and full credit to board for finding wimmer and then Askou who has been unbelievable.   Just loving this season 

All the guys who wanted Barmack in.....

[wellfan]

The Venn diagram of the Colins and Kettlewells of Scottish football is just a circle. Backwards-thinking, blinkered, arrogant morons.

[Kmcalpin]

I have no problems with "Colins", whatever they might be. I don't agree with their views but, don't agree with calling them out over their views. Apart from calling out the odd roaster, I've never been concerned about the views of other fans. Live and let live. There are more important issues for us to be thinking about.   It just divides our fanbase and thats never a good thing.  

[wellfan]

44 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I have no problems with "Colins", whatever they might be. I don't agree with their views but, don't agree with calling them out over their views. Apart from calling out the odd roaster, I've never been concerned about the views of other fans. Live and let live. There are more important issues for us to be thinking about.   It just divides our fanbase and thats never a good thing.  

I generally agree. But the Wild Sheep debacle was one of the most important issues I’ve had as a Motherwell fan, and those backing Barmack’s proposal (and Kettlewell) need called out for what they were: stupid and wrong.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

I have no problems with "Colins", whatever they might be. I don't agree with their views but, don't agree with calling them out over their views. Apart from calling out the odd roaster, I've never been concerned about the views of other fans. Live and let live. There are more important issues for us to be thinking about.   It just divides our fanbase and thats never a good thing.  

Surely the whole point of a football forum is to offer different views and to debate them?

Given how important the Barmack thing was, and how vociferously it was debated at the time, surely its not beyond the pale to review the situation and ask what folks views on Barmack v Fan ownership is now?

I probably shouldnt have used the word "Colins" as it is a bit of a cheap shot, but I genuinely am interested to hear from anyone who thought it was a good thing at the time.....

[Stuwell2]

24 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Surely the whole point of a football forum is to offer different views and to debate them?….. I probably shouldnt have used the word "Colins" as it is a bit of a cheap shot, but I genuinely am interested to hear from anyone who thought it was a good thing at the time.....

Agree that “Colin’s” was not the best term to use (stupid being even worse) and being a backer of the society I can’t give you the complete view of those who thought  the Barmack deal was the way forward but from discussing over the last year with some who did I can give you my view of their thoughts then and now. 
At the time - and I think this is generally agreed - the club needed investment (the “Miller Millions” has changed that for the moment but wasn’t an option at the time) the Barmack deal and society deals were the only two options. Initially most were willing to look serious at the Barmack deal but when the details were revealed most rejected it. 
Those that I’ve spoken to mostly concede that in hindsight the rejection was probably correct but also say - probably correctly - that the society has failed to follow up with their investment plan/promise, so without the Miller money the club would have been in the same or worse financial position as before the bid and I find that hard to argue against apart for being able to say we’re still a fan owned club without having to worry that Barmack could have stripped our assets to get his cash back and folded the club. 
In my discussions I’ve managed to get at least one of them to restart their society contributions and hope that more will start again using the argument that the society money is for emergencies and not the day to day running of the club and as things are going well at the club the society’s bank balance should be slowly increasing putting us in a better position for any future downturn. 
I’d like to personally add that the society board -and to a lesser extent the club board- needs to use this time and feel good factor to find ways to generate maximum income for the club and not just rely on the increased attendance money. 
 

[wellfan]

2 hours ago, Stuwell2 said:

I’d like to personally add that the society board -and to a lesser extent the club board- needs to use this time and feel good factor to find ways to generate maximum income for the club and not just rely on the increased attendance money. 

Open a club shop in Harare. 

[joewarkfanclub]

3 hours ago, Stuwell2 said:

Agree that “Colin’s” was not the best term to use (stupid being even worse) and being a backer of the society I can’t give you the complete view of those who thought  the Barmack deal was the way forward but from discussing over the last year with some who did I can give you my view of their thoughts then and now. 
At the time - and I think this is generally agreed - the club needed investment (the “Miller Millions” has changed that for the moment but wasn’t an option at the time) the Barmack deal and society deals were the only two options. Initially most were willing to look serious at the Barmack deal but when the details were revealed most rejected it. 
Those that I’ve spoken to mostly concede that in hindsight the rejection was probably correct but also say - probably correctly - that the society has failed to follow up with their investment plan/promise, so without the Miller money the club would have been in the same or worse financial position as before the bid and I find that hard to argue against apart for being able to say we’re still a fan owned club without having to worry that Barmack could have stripped our assets to get his cash back and folded the club. 
In my discussions I’ve managed to get at least one of them to restart their society contributions and hope that more will start again using the argument that the society money is for emergencies and not the day to day running of the club and as things are going well at the club the society’s bank balance should be slowly increasing putting us in a better position for any future downturn. 
I’d like to personally add that the society board -and to a lesser extent the club board- needs to use this time and feel good factor to find ways to generate maximum income for the club and not just rely on the increased attendance money. 
 

Thanks for the response. It is much appreciated. 

Im not sure that I accept that the club needed (or still needs) investment. Simply because Im not sure a club our size in Scottish Football is a good investment opportunity.

Investors always want a return on their money. I just couldnt (and still cant) see how any investor was going to make money out of Motherwell FC without doing harm to the club. (Partnerships with local businesses maybe somewhat different as they can be mutually beneficial).

The Miller millions have stabilised the club in the short term and that is welcome. But the boy was still here at the time of the offer and wasnt being factored into the value of the club.

Without re-hashing the whole debate again, I do accept that there has not been any news of direct investment into the club.

However, that was addressed by the chairman who went on record as saying we will go after some easy wins first and make the club a more attractive proposition for investors so, when the time comes, we get a better deal.

I think the easy wins are there for all to see. We have finally got out of the spiral of employing/sacking managers and closing in on nearly clearing the costs of turning over their squads. That was all wasted money out the door due to bad decision making.

We now have a good manager, playing attractive football, increased attendances, player trading model looking much healthier for tge future with a number of valuable assets, and thats just from the club side.

Society contributions are up and the revenue for the "safety net" has increased.

The club is clearly in a much healthier position than it was a year ago and its not just because we sold Lennon Miller.

Obviously there are many variables still in the pipeline as our manager and players come under the spotlight. However, if the new board stick to their principles and processes thatbhave got us to where we are, then there is no doubt in my mind the club becomes/remains sustainable and can actually prosper.

[wellfan]

I’m not really sure who’s going to invest in a fan-owned club like Motherwell. We’ve been over that before. The focus should be on Motherwell investing in itself, by putting money into players, staff and facilities, which is what we’re seeing now.

[weeyin]

I agree about the investment. 

What we do need is some partnership/sponsorship - and we have seen some small steps forward in that regard e.g. the electronic advertising board along the length of the pitch.

I'd even tolerate ads in the Well Society app if that helps generate a few quid.

[Stuwell2]

3 minutes ago, wellfan said:

I’m not really sure who’s going to invest in a fan-owned club like Motherwell. We’ve been over that before. The focus should be on Motherwell investing in itself, by putting money into players, staff and facilities, which is what we’re seeing now.

Agree 100% that focusing on what we can do best as we are now is the correct decision but I also believe that we can find another Tony Bloom willing to invest similar to the deal Hearts have.
Proving we are a solid reliable club is the first and hardest part which we’ve done. 
What I would say is that any deal should leave the society with a majority share holding and that if the society has to give up say 20% of their shares then the current private shareholders will have to give up 20% also rather than the society having to bear all the losses. 

[wellfan]

25 minutes ago, Stuwell2 said:

Agree 100% that focusing on what we can do best as we are now is the correct decision but I also believe that we can find another Tony Bloom willing to invest similar to the deal Hearts have.
Proving we are a solid reliable club is the first and hardest part which we’ve done. 
What I would say is that any deal should leave the society with a majority share holding and that if the society has to give up say 20% of their shares then the current private shareholders will have to give up 20% also rather than the society having to bear all the losses. 

If the right hypothetical 20% offer came along, I’m sure we’d all be willing to listen. The red lines on fan ownership are already drawn, and we’ve shown what can be achieved without extra investment.

[dennyc]

8 hours ago, Stuwell2 said:

Agree that “Colin’s” was not the best term to use (stupid being even worse) and being a backer of the society I can’t give you the complete view of those who thought  the Barmack deal was the way forward but from discussing over the last year with some who did I can give you my view of their thoughts then and now. 
At the time - and I think this is generally agreed - the club needed investment (the “Miller Millions” has changed that for the moment but wasn’t an option at the time) the Barmack deal and society deals were the only two options. Initially most were willing to look serious at the Barmack deal but when the details were revealed most rejected it. 
Those that I’ve spoken to mostly concede that in hindsight the rejection was probably correct but also say - probably correctly - that the society has failed to follow up with their investment plan/promise, so without the Miller money the club would have been in the same or worse financial position as before the bid and I find that hard to argue against apart for being able to say we’re still a fan owned club without having to worry that Barmack could have stripped our assets to get his cash back and folded the club. 
In my discussions I’ve managed to get at least one of them to restart their society contributions and hope that more will start again using the argument that the society money is for emergencies and not the day to day running of the club and as things are going well at the club the society’s bank balance should be slowly increasing putting us in a better position for any future downturn. 
I’d like to personally add that the society board -and to a lesser extent the club board- needs to use this time and feel good factor to find ways to generate maximum income for the club and not just rely on the increased attendance money. 
 

I think that is a fair and balanced summary. As one who voted against the Barmack proposal (even though my first name is Colin!) I think the caution expressed in your comments is valid. No doubt we are currently in a much better and more stable position than we were when Barmack first raised his head. Partly due to the Miller monies but also down to the efforts of both Boards. The recent Society update highlighted various improvements that have taken place. 

You mention Finance, and apologies if I missed the info, but how does our contributing membership numbers and the Society's Bank Balance today compare to way back then?  In short, what growth has taken place? Positive news in those areas can only help to reassure all those with MFC at heart.

[joewarkfanclub]

33 minutes ago, dennyc said:

I think that is a fair and balanced summary. As one who voted against the Barmack proposal (even though my first name is Colin!) I think the caution expressed in your comments is valid. No doubt we are currently in a much better and more stable position than we were when Barmack first raised his head. Partly due to the Miller monies but also down to the efforts of both Boards. The recent Society update highlighted various improvements that have taken place. 

You mention Finance, and apologies if I missed the info, but how does our contributing membership numbers and the Society's Bank Balance today compare to way back then?  In short, what growth has taken place? Positive news in those areas can only help to reassure all those with MFC at heart.

Sorry Colin! No offence intended! 😆

[Stuwell2]

2 hours ago, dennyc said:

You mention Finance, and apologies if I missed the info, but how does our contributing membership numbers and the Society's Bank Balance today compare to way back then?  In short, what growth has taken place? Positive news in those areas can only help to reassure all those with MFC at heart.

In all honesty I don’t know which is why I said the bank balance should be increasing which I base on the assumption that with the club being on a sound financial footing over the last 18 months, there should have been no need for the society having to make any payments to the club, so any money raised should be in the bank. 

[Kmcalpin]

22 hours ago, Stuwell2 said:

Agree that “Colin’s” was not the best term to use (stupid being even worse) and being a backer of the society I can’t give you the complete view of those who thought  the Barmack deal was the way forward but from discussing over the last year with some who did I can give you my view of their thoughts then and now. 
At the time - and I think this is generally agreed - the club needed investment (the “Miller Millions” has changed that for the moment but wasn’t an option at the time) the Barmack deal and society deals were the only two options. Initially most were willing to look serious at the Barmack deal but when the details were revealed most rejected it. 
Those that I’ve spoken to mostly concede that in hindsight the rejection was probably correct but also say - probably correctly - that the society has failed to follow up with their investment plan/promise, so without the Miller money the club would have been in the same or worse financial position as before the bid and I find that hard to argue against apart for being able to say we’re still a fan owned club without having to worry that Barmack could have stripped our assets to get his cash back and folded the club. 
In my discussions I’ve managed to get at least one of them to restart their society contributions and hope that more will start again using the argument that the society money is for emergencies and not the day to day running of the club and as things are going well at the club the society’s bank balance should be slowly increasing putting us in a better position for any future downturn. 
I’d like to personally add that the society board -and to a lesser extent the club board- needs to use this time and feel good factor to find ways to generate maximum income for the club and not just rely on the increased attendance money. 

Good posts from Stu and Joe.

At the time of the Barmack proposal, there was a lot of very insightful and forensic analysis from various posters. It proved to be a very complex issue and not being an accountant I struggled to understand all the intricacies of the debate.  I was generally in favour of external investment but eventually opposed it when I saw the details of Barmack's plan. Quite a few were comfortable with the detailed discussions but many, probably most, did not understand the complexities. As always, we had extreme views from those who who supported the proposal come what may to those who would die in a ditch to oppose it out of principle. Most lay somewhere in between. Many did not vote for whatever reason.

At the time the emerging division in our fanbase concerned me. Fortunately, that emerging rift has largely healed. It concerned me though that some opponents of the proposal looked own in disdain at supporters of it. Although I opposed it, I did think that some/many/most of its backers had good reasons for endorsing it. I took the trouble to ask a few why they did so, without trying to convert them. Most of their answers made perfect sense; others had a grain of truth in them. I never like to dismiss others' opinions out of hand, as it is very rare that I disagree with them 100%.   

The Society has achieved a range of measures such as fan engagement, managerial recruitment governance and so on. Our current financial health is largely down to the Society and sound governance of our club. As Stu says though a large element of that is the Miller Money. I too would like to see more flesh on the bones of the Society's investment plan & promises.  We really do need to maximise income from all sources as we don't know what the future holds and we do face a range of challenges. 

[Mintymac]

This time last year I  was swithering about  renewing my ST for this season .

Football was atrocious and coupled with the toxic atmosphere when we went behind in a game I felt enough was enough . Some of it justified but some completely over the top.

I've said on a previous post if the New Board /Chairman had not come in with a vision on how to change things then my days visiting FP would have been few and far between .

The vision and bravery to go the route we have  is nothing short of incredible .

Could easily have bottled it after Winner but instead doubled down more .

Hats off to everyone involved in the decision making .

After a few league cup game where new style of play was being implemented some of the usual roasters were screaming  from the stand to revert to the old style . Patience 0 on a scale from 0-10.

Jens intervention at that stage calming the roasters down and educating us at the same time really helped .

 

By time Rangers home  game came along you could see signs of progress .

From then to now the development of players and team collectively has been astonishing .

After 58 years watching the ups and downs of our club I can honestly say hand on heart although maybe not the best ever players we've had i'm struggling to remember a better team playing better football . 

Truly remarkable turnaround 

 

[MJC]

All I ever ask of Motherwell FC is that we are the best we possibly can be.
 

And for years under various regimes from Robinson latterly through Alexander to Kettlewell I didn’t think we were anywhere near it. There was no vision or desire to play entertaining football it very much just felt like a case of huff and puff our way through matches and hope that that will be enough to keep us in the top flight.

This season has felt different in so many ways. I was very sceptical when Jens was appointed and although I had concerns during the early months of the season when we looked incapable of winning matches you could see that we now had a manager who had a plan on how he wanted us to play football and over the past month or so I think we’ve seen that plan come to fruition. And it’s been brilliant to watch and going to games now no longer feels like the chore it did last season, instead you can’t wait until the next game.

We will never have the finished article when it comes to managers or teams but it’s so refreshing seeing us play good flowing football and believing that we can beat anyone on our day.

[Throughthelaces]

Weve done better than i thought we would last january or february i was so disenchanted with the board and the football on the pitch. I genuinely thought we were on a rudderless dinghy. However glad that the refreshed well society and board have proved me wrong and am delighted with the teams current play and long may it continue