That Old Chestnut - Do We Move Or Do We Stay

[Happyhonest]

On 7/27/2026 at 12:08 AM, Goggles & Flippers said:

Another point I've mentioned before, but I think it's worth giving it a post of its own in this thread, is the proposed training facility at Dalziel Park.

When the plans were first published, I gave my thoughts on the design and, if I'm honest, I hope the final product is significantly more ambitious than what's shown in the planning documents. However, with the extraordinary tsunami of transfer income we've generated this summer, I think it's only right that we revisit whether Dalziel Park still represents the best long-term investment for the club.

The documents submitted to North Lanarkshire Council describe this as Phase 1. That consists of the new building, equipment/storage sheds and converting the running track pitch to an all-weather surface with floodlights.

That wording itself suggests/infers there will be a Phase 2? What does that look like? Upgrading the five-a-side pitches? Covering one with indoor dome? Additional parking?

Or does it ultimately make sense to become a full club base, allowing us to move operations away from K-Park and cease renting?

If that's the intention, there are further costs to consider. We'd need facilities capable of hosting Women's and Academy fixtures. Under current SWPL 1 ground regulations, the minimum capacity is 1,300 spectators. At present we effectively work around this by using K-Park, which only holds around 660 spectators (400 seated).

A permanent home would also require things such as (from SWPL guidance):

1. Broadcast-standard floodlighting.
2. A press area.
3. A main camera gantry on the halfway line.
4. A reliable secondary power supply.
5. Dugouts meeting competition regulations.
6. Appropriate changing facilities and supporting infrastructure.

When the plans first appeared, a few people took a punt and estimated the building alone at somewhere between £1.5 million and £2.2 million, which doesn't seem unreasonable.

Looking at comparable projects, the additional infrastructure isn't insignificant either.

• FIFA Quality Pro artificial pitch including engineered sub-base, shock pad and drainage: £850k-£1.1m
• Broadcast-standard floodlighting: £150k-£250k
• Backup generator and associated services: £80k-£100k
• A modest 1,300-capacity stand with changing rooms, media facilities and basic hospitality: I'd struggle to see this coming in at much under £1.2m
• Additional parking, landscaping and site works: £150k+

Obviously not everything would necessarily happen at once, but it's not difficult to see the total investment reaching £4-5 million over any multiple phases.

The other aspect I'm less clear on is ownership. Dalziel Park is a charitable trust and, unless I've misunderstood the arrangement, Motherwell wouldn't actually own the land. We may have an excellent long-term lease with favourable terms, but ultimately it would still be a major investment on a site we don't control as an asset. Happy to be corrected if I've got that wrong.

None of this is intended as criticism of any Dalziel Park facility. If the club proceeds with it, it will be a significant improvement on what we have now. Few clubs are co-located but that's down to land availability, if Celtic cold have secured 10 acres beside Parkhead, would they still prefer Lennoxtown?

What I'm really asking is whether this summer has changed the equation.

If Ravenscraig has now entered the fray to genuinely being considered for a new stadium, should we pause before committing several million pounds on Dalziel Park's phase 1 & possibly 2 and ask whether some or all of that investment would be better directed towards a wider football campus instead?

We'd still need at least three full-size grass training pitches for rotation, along with 5/7-a-side pitches. But many of the expensive elements we're potentially talking about at Dalziel Park .... hospitality, changing rooms, media facilities, floodlighting, generators, kitchens, parking, offices, catering and security, would already exist as part of a wider stadium development. Would a gym block booked from 9-12 Monday to Friday not be monetised to the public outside those hours?

The biggest challenge is the main playing surface. A natural grass stadium pitch simply isn't designed to cope with 40-plus competitive matches every season, particularly when the women's season extends into the summer and removes much of the recovery and renovation window grounds staff traditionally rely on.

That raises an interesting question. Is there a technically and financially viable way of incorporating an interchangeable natural grass and artificial surface (or second grass pitch) within the stadium footprint? It would undoubtedly consume a significant portion of any savings made elsewhere and add considerable engineering complexity, so it's far from a cheap solution.

However, if it could be achieved, the benefits are substantial. You'd create a venue capable of operating virtually 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. It could host first-team, women's and academy football, community use, multi-sport events and commercial hires, while ensuring every Motherwell FC team has a permanent home on a single site. The increased utilisation would also create revenue opportunities that simply aren't available from a stadium that's used for a couple of dozen afternoons each year.

Maybe the answer is still Dalziel Park. Maybe a split-site model remains the best option. But even with a rebuilt POD there would be a host of duplication of facilities with Dalziel Park and a weekday disconnect that doesn't exist currently.

I'm just not convinced that, after the financial position we've put ourselves in this summer, it isn't worth stepping back and asking whether our long-term infrastructure strategy should be a little more ambitious than it looked 12 months ago.

This all makes sense.  If we take bodo as the model improving the team allows more money generated.  The issue then is if we do move to a football campus as suggested in the other post then can and do we have the finances for a new stadia and a trading ground together.  
 

this makes me think that we should develop a phase 2/3 level of training ground now to improve players youth team and attract new players with the level and sophistication of the facilities and not build a new stadium.  Not ideal and I see the merit in the football campus  but don’t want to use the financial windfall just to go bust two years down the line.

 

on a side note that bodo glint stadium looks the dogs….

 

love the idea of fives pitches padel etc around it with sustainable features.  Anyone with a 100 mill spare? 

[Goggles & Flippers]

On 8/30/2026 at 12:45 PM, Happyhonest said:

This all makes sense.  If we take bodo as the model improving the team allows more money generated.  The issue then is if we do move to a football campus as suggested in the other post then can and do we have the finances for a new stadia and a trading ground together.  
 

this makes me think that we should develop a phase 2/3 level of training ground now to improve players youth team and attract new players with the level and sophistication of the facilities and not build a new stadium.  Not ideal and I see the merit in the football campus  but don’t want to use the financial windfall just to go bust two years down the line.

 

on a side note that bodo glint stadium looks the dogs….

 

love the idea of fives pitches padel etc around it with sustainable features.  Anyone with a 100 mill spare? 

Maybe I misrepresented but I understood a football campus is something like what Man City have, the stadium and the training facility is essentially co-located/easily accessible. Was a simple thing to do in the aftermath of the Commonwealth games.

The concern myself and many others have is by funding a multi-million pound facility at Dalziel Park we own either own the land as per the footprint of the building or will be on a long term favourable lease. If we ever need to realise the asset then who's going to be interested in securing an isolated building? The £1m astroturf in the middle of the running track will probably revert to to Dalziel Memorial Trust.

The value in the asset would be if there was associated land and if in a pinch it could be sold either as is or for a change of use. Of course there's major pro's and con's for each option including speed of construction and ready made pitches at DP.

The planned improvement would be welcome and undoubtedly an improvement on what we have, I am unsure if the modest plans are something that makes a young player think, I need to be here beyond the exposure and platform we claim to be able to provide.

My preference for a campus is four fold; to avoid doubling up on infrastructure, to sweat the asset, to be a new hub/focal point for the area and to carry the club in to the future at pace. It's imperative the modern world that a building such as a stadium can't be used 25 days a year tops. Every nook and cranny of the building should be exploited for complementary ancillary business' and services.

Caldwell's piece to camera the other day makes it clear Dalziel Park is going ahead without any pasky fan input other than if you own a lumberyard can you give us a bell.

Funny 100 million is mentioned: https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2025/11/07/l35-set-to-deliver-stadium-for-banik-ostravas-return-home/

 

Designed by the firm who handled the Bernabeu refurb, of course it's not going to be cheap, it's very much a statement and central government is throwing money at it. One bit does resonate .....

"A unique facade – a tribute to coal and steel

Nové Bazaly will hold 20,188 spectators, with a layout that includes two-tiered east and west stands and smaller single-tier north and south sections. The design pays homage to Ostrava’s mining and industrial heritage. The stadium will rest on a solid basalt stone base, recalling the quarry that once occupied the site. Its perforated metal facade will provide ventilation while partially concealing technical areas and reflecting the industrial character of the city.

The stadium resembles a crown – not golden or ostentatious, but proud and working-class. It celebrates Ostrava’s industrial spirit and honors the generations who built this city and supported Baník through every era, the architects from L35 explained."

[stv]

1 hour ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

Maybe I misrepresented but I understood a football campus is something like what Man City have, the stadium and the training facility is essentially co-located/easily accessible. Was a simple thing to do in the aftermath of the Commonwealth games.

The concern myself and many others have is by funding a multi-million pound facility at Dalziel Park we own either own the land as per the footprint of the building or will be on a long term favourable lease. If we ever need to realise the asset then who's going to be interested in securing an isolated building? The £1m astroturf in the middle of the running track will probably revert to to Dalziel Memorial Trust.

The value in the asset would be if there was associated land and if in a pinch it could be sold either as is or for a change of use. Of course there's major pro's and con's for each option including speed of construction and ready made pitches at DP.

The planned improvement would be welcome and undoubtedly an improvement on what we have, I am unsure if the modest plans are something that makes a young player think, I need to be here beyond the exposure and platform we claim to be able to provide.

My preference for a campus is four fold; to avoid doubling up on infrastructure, to sweat the asset, to be a new hub/focal point for the area and to carry the club in to the future at pace. It's imperative the modern world that a building such as a stadium can't be used 25 days a year tops. Every nook and cranny of the building should be exploited for complementary ancillary business' and services.

Caldwell's piece to camera the other day makes it clear Dalziel Park is going ahead without any pasky fan input other than if you own a lumberyard can you give us a bell.

Funny 100 million is mentioned: https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2025/11/07/l35-set-to-deliver-stadium-for-banik-ostravas-return-home/

 

Designed by the firm who handled the Bernabeu refurb, of course it's not going to be cheap, it's very much a statement and central government is throwing money at it. One bit does resonate .....

"A unique facade – a tribute to coal and steel

Nové Bazaly will hold 20,188 spectators, with a layout that includes two-tiered east and west stands and smaller single-tier north and south sections. The design pays homage to Ostrava’s mining and industrial heritage. The stadium will rest on a solid basalt stone base, recalling the quarry that once occupied the site. Its perforated metal facade will provide ventilation while partially concealing technical areas and reflecting the industrial character of the city.

The stadium resembles a crown – not golden or ostentatious, but proud and working-class. It celebrates Ostrava’s industrial spirit and honors the generations who built this city and supported Baník through every era, the architects from L35 explained."

In over our heads and ideas above our station . Sorry but thats all i see .We are a provincial football club not property investors or property tycoons , or landlords or hotelliers depending on others to rent etc from us.  It's Scotland, we are a wee club football club .There is global uncertainty and uncertainty in Scotland. Football is only a money maker if your a top club in European stages or English. We will need to cut our cloth to suit our financial limitations and geographical position ie 16 miles from the arse cheeks in a wee country of 4.5 million people. Most of whom are far from rich.

[Spiderpig]

2 hours ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

Maybe I misrepresented but I understood a football campus is something like what Man City have, the stadium and the training facility is essentially co-located/easily accessible. Was a simple thing to do in the aftermath of the Commonwealth games.

The concern myself and many others have is by funding a multi-million pound facility at Dalziel Park we own either own the land as per the footprint of the building or will be on a long term favourable lease. If we ever need to realise the asset then who's going to be interested in securing an isolated building? The £1m astroturf in the middle of the running track will probably revert to to Dalziel Memorial Trust.

The value in the asset would be if there was associated land and if in a pinch it could be sold either as is or for a change of use. Of course there's major pro's and con's for each option including speed of construction and ready made pitches at DP.

The planned improvement would be welcome and undoubtedly an improvement on what we have, I am unsure if the modest plans are something that makes a young player think, I need to be here beyond the exposure and platform we claim to be able to provide.

My preference for a campus is four fold; to avoid doubling up on infrastructure, to sweat the asset, to be a new hub/focal point for the area and to carry the club in to the future at pace. It's imperative the modern world that a building such as a stadium can't be used 25 days a year tops. Every nook and cranny of the building should be exploited for complementary ancillary business' and services.

Caldwell's piece to camera the other day makes it clear Dalziel Park is going ahead without any pasky fan input other than if you own a lumberyard can you give us a bell.

Funny 100 million is mentioned: https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2025/11/07/l35-set-to-deliver-stadium-for-banik-ostravas-return-home/

 

Designed by the firm who handled the Bernabeu refurb, of course it's not going to be cheap, it's very much a statement and central government is throwing money at it. One bit does resonate .....

"A unique facade – a tribute to coal and steel

Nové Bazaly will hold 20,188 spectators, with a layout that includes two-tiered east and west stands and smaller single-tier north and south sections. The design pays homage to Ostrava’s mining and industrial heritage. The stadium will rest on a solid basalt stone base, recalling the quarry that once occupied the site. Its perforated metal facade will provide ventilation while partially concealing technical areas and reflecting the industrial character of the city.

The stadium resembles a crown – not golden or ostentatious, but proud and working-class. It celebrates Ostrava’s industrial spirit and honors the generations who built this city and supported Baník through every era, the architects from L35 explained."

Aye ok then fancy new stadiums and training facilities, feasabillity studies, its all a bit hypothetical pie in the sky BS for a club of our size and means.

Personally id settle for decent, fit for purpose seats in the POD.

[Goggles & Flippers]

And I think that sums up the general mindset of our country. We limit ourselves at the outset, actually even before that. I get why we have the rain day mentality, there's various socio-economic reasons for it. Not a criticism lads, just our general make up as Scots unless you choose to buck the trend.

I'm not suggesting we'd could do anything other than something appropriate or bankrupt the club, that would be grossly irresponsible. But you gotta aspire to more than the sum of your parts, trying to see that play out on the park is why we show up week after week isn't it?

Being so focused on the here and now on stuff such as personal inconvenience gripes isn't for me. I've tried to illustrate why I think it could work and provided numbers (even if back of fag packet maths and no doubt with many holes), it's a bit more than nah it'll never work, we need to know our place, etc.

Simply put Fir Park will always be limiting to our ambition and revenue. Maintenance will be like the Forth Bridge, the McLean is needing major work done to it throughout and probably the most pressing as we currently earn a fair whack of cash thanks to it. The POD is on life support and no longer fit for purpose. The Hunter will follow as it's roof needs addressed, then the floodlights and the Cooper, before the pitch or the McLean needs another touch up.

All I've tried to show is rather than syphoning money into Fir Park that can be directed to a new venue that gives you 20-25 years with minimal maintenance. A new POD (is £8m fair? in construction and lost revenue), POD brought up to standard (£2m), other stands and infrastructure (£2m), ongoing maintenance over the next 20 years (£4m) and never realised commercial revenues because FP is hemmed into a residential area with limited premium options (£4m). I've highlighted that for ever 1,000 seats we make available to OF fans beyond their current 4,800 allocation (that brings in £2m extra income over 20 years, so sell 9,800 seats to OF/Hearts = £10m).

Those all combined have us at £30m. If you feel that's generous, then what we're about to spend at Dalziel Park you can add in too as all the features of the new facility will already be part of any new main stand.

That's all before you add in rents, SFA hiring the stadium for U21's etc, concerts and an expected boost in the home gate.

Something of this magnitude can't be looked at as an isolated outlay but a long term investment.

I do find it odd that folk are so quick to tell us to limit ambitions when pretty much most adults on this will buy or have bought a house worth more than they have available in the bank and in many cases will use every penny of the 5.5x their current salary to maximise what they can realise.

[Kmcalpin]

14 hours ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

All I've tried to show is rather than syphoning money into Fir Park that can be directed to a new venue that gives you 20-25 years with minimal maintenance. A new POD (is £8m fair? in construction and lost revenue), POD brought up to standard (£2m), other stands and infrastructure (£2m), ongoing maintenance over the next 20 years (£4m) and never realised commercial revenues because FP is hemmed into a residential area with limited premium options (£4m). I've highlighted that for ever 1,000 seats we make available to OF fans beyond their current 4,800 allocation (that brings in £2m extra income over 20 years, so sell 9,800 seats to OF/Hearts = £10m).

I'm fully with you this Goggles, as I've said before.  Now we could discuss ad infinitum on this thread about the actual size of a proposed new stadium ranging anywhere from 10K to 18K and all stops in between, but thats for another day. Yes, a new stadium would be very expensive but so would staying at Fir Park as you show here. Costs apart, Fir Park is  now no longer fit for purpose in 2026. As you rightly say our stadium is hemmed in by a 20th century land use legacy. The footprint is very tight and limits what can be done. Specific points:

* The POD is on life support and needs demolished and replaced urgently. Space for development is severely restricted by the housing near Mrs Baillies. That will never change. 

* The Hunter Stand at minimum needs a new roof.  Its the wrong shape, with access limited to one end and as we've seen recently long queues building up on busy match days. There is no room whatsoever to expand to the east. Catering and toilet facilities are poor and always will be. The views are also poor due to the low inclination of the seating and steel supports, which result in impaired access for some. 

* The McLean Stand is ageing and replacement of seating is already an issue. 

* The Cooper Stand is probably in the best health, but the hospitality facilities are sub standard and access for disabled fans is problematic, if not impossible. 

* At some stage, the floodlights will need replacement but I've no idea of the cost of that.

No doubt there other maintenance issues about which we are unaware. 

Safety standards are ever evolving and each year more work needs to be done, at considerable cost, just to maintain the status quo. The world has changed but Fir Park hasn't kept pace and never will be able to. Fans in 2026 will simply not tolerate the same standard of facilities our predecessors did 60 or 70 years ago. 

[joewarkfanclub]

Regardless of your opinion on stay or go, this IS a major decision for the club, which lets remember, IS owned by the fans.

I think the feasibility study requires to be published, if only for transparency purposes.

The board should then put forward their preferred option and any alternative for the consideration of the clubs owners.

Its not quite up there with the Barmack proposal in terms of importance, who owns the club will always top the list. But where we play our football is a close second.

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

 

The board should then put forward their preferred option and any alternative for the consideration of the clubs owners.

 

The club going ahead with the Dalziel park proposals is for me a big hint that they want to stay at Fir Park, as it makes no financial sense to spend millions on new training facilities that could be incorporated into a new build stadium site and have everything on the one site.

I think the cost of a new stadium for a club of our size is beyond our means so staying at Fir park with all its faults and the no doubt high refurb costs etc might be the cheaper and financially sensible option.

Also if we do decide to move it has to be to a stadium design thats suitable and acceptable to the fans, and not a generic 4 stand open corner soulless ground that we would alk hate.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

The club going ahead with the Dalziel park proposals is for me a big hint that they want to stay at Fir Park

You could well be right Allan  but the club should be doing more than just hinting about its preferred option. It should be coming out and telling us. 

[grizzlyg]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

The club going ahead with the Dalziel park proposals is for me a big hint that they want to stay at Fir Park, as it makes no financial sense to spend millions on new training facilities that could be incorporated into a new build stadium site and have everything on the one site.

I think the cost of a new stadium for a club of our size is beyond our means so staying at Fir park with all its faults and the no doubt high refurb costs etc might be the cheaper and financially sensible option.

Also if we do decide to move it has to be to a stadium design thats suitable and acceptable to the fans, and not a generic 4 stand open corner soulless ground that we would alk hate.

Yep pal I agree with fact with I just don't know how we would fund a new stadium. I would love us to regenerate Fir Park but I totally get the cost of this also.   I dont sit in POD but it needs so much work as do the other stands.

And yes if we decided to move to new stadium it has to be unique and not bog standard 4 stands a bit like st mirren's