The Alfred Johansson Thread

[grizzlyg]

Was terrible today, we all know that but you can't suddenly sack a manager after 9 league games, who do we bring in?  Some of the fabs reactions at game really beggar belief.

I aint no happy clapper and today yes Alfred got a lot wrong , Vogt should have been hooked half time. But Vogt wasn't reason we lost.  2nd goal a shitshow between Sparrow (HE ISN'T A RIGHT BACK), AND SOD doing hard part then dugs dinner of rest.

Next week now massive. Win and feelgood factor good. ALL teams have bad runs ( check st mirren highlights).

In times of trouble we need to get right behind team. You think booing and giving dogs abuse is going to help? No.

COYW

[wellup83]

8 minutes ago, Lobey_Dosser said:

Last year we unquestionably had the best manager in the league. Nobody was going to fill the void left by Jens. As things stand however, we have appointed someone that is a strong contender for being the worst manager in the league. With the crowds falling

The crowd was poor today but I don't think we can discount the fact that it's now A. The October break and people are possibly away. And B. That the games on a Sunday at the ridiculous time of 12 noon. I share the frustration with AJ but on the same token, he's working alongside the same coaching staff as Jens. Max Rogers was also well credited for how we performed last season so there shouldn't have been that much of a change in training methods? The loss of key players in the summer coupled with some very questionable recruitment has to be a main factor surely.

[Prestwickwell]

5 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Was terrible today, we all know that but you can't suddenly sack a manager after 9 league games, who do we bring in?  Some of the fabs reactions at game really beggar belief.

I aint no happy clapper and today yes Alfred got a lot wrong , Vogt should have been hooked half time. But Vogt wasn't reason we lost.  2nd goal a shitshow between Sparrow (HE ISN'T A RIGHT BACK), AND SOD doing hard part then dugs dinner of rest.

Next week now massive. Win and feelgood factor good. ALL teams have bad runs ( check st mirren highlights).

In times of trouble we need to get right behind team. You think booing and giving dogs abuse is going to help? No.

COYW

If u don’t think vogts was a big part of the issue then there’s no hope 😂

 

fuck being a right back with him in front of u 😂

[grizzlyg]

4 minutes ago, Prestwickwell said:

If u don’t think vogts was a big part of the issue then there’s no hope 😂

 

fuck being a right back with him in front of u 😂

 Vogt was terrible today, I never denied that

[joewarkfanclub]

Alfred absolutely isnt going to be sacked anytime soon. The board have chosen a football philosophy for the club and appointed a manager to implement it. They simply have to stand by their man and give him time.

However, he does have to start demonstrating he understands the problems and that he is able to coach improvement into the team and our performances.

Jens didnt start well as far as points were concerned, but he was able to point to performances and quality of play as signs that things would get better.

Right now our performances are getting worse and we are not picking up any points. 

One of those things needs to change.

[Prestwickwell]

7 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

 Vogt was terrible today, I never denied that

Uv said he wasn’t a big reason we’d lost….absolutely disagree with that 

 

we were ripped apart time & time again down that side because he doesn’t work…..it’s also not a coincidence as soon as he went off we had our only spell in the game 

 

he’s been dreadful from day 1 simply because of his effort & application 

he’s a big part of the reason we lost….& the managers a big part of the reason for picking him 

[wellfan]

1 minute ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Alfred absolutely isnt going to be sacked anytime soon. The board have chosen a football philosophy for the club and appointed a manager to implement it. They simply have to stand by their man and give him time.

However, he does have to start demonstrating he understands the problems and that he is able to coach improvement into the team and our performances.

Jens didnt start well as far as points were concerned, but he was able to point to performances and quality of play as signs that things would get better.

Right now our performances are getting worse and we are not picking up any points. 

One of those things needs to change.

Yeh. The difference was that, under JBA, you could see what the team was trying to do from the very start of his tenure. There was an identity. The same can’t be said for the start of Alfred’s tenure, and that’s my biggest concern.

[Lobey_Dosser]

1 minute ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Alfred absolutely isnt going to be sacked anytime soon. The board have chosen a football philosophy for the club and appointed a manager to implement it. They simply have to stand by their man and give him time.

However, he does have to start demonstrating he understands the problems and that he is able to coach improvement into the team and our performances.

Jens didnt start well as far as points were concerned, but he was able to point to performances and quality of play as signs that things would get better.

Right now our performances are getting worse and we are not picking up any points. 

One of those things needs to change.

What is the football philosophy of the board? If it’s exciting, possession based football, Alfred has already demonstrated that he isn’t going to deliver that. Nor has he showing any signs of developing young players either. 

[star sail]

I did not see the game today so I don't know just how bad it was but there are a few things that would make me think that there is somewhat of an  overreaction here:

1. MJC and Wellfan are cheerleading the Manager out rhetoric which they have done with some glee with pretty much every single manager we have had.

2. Two of this 4 game Armageddon run has involved the Old Firm. Rangers are on a 6 game unbeaten run and Celtic were always going to react after their OF humbling. I still believe Celtic will win the league if MON has his eye back on the ball.

3. Much as we hate to admit it the Dundee defeat was against a good side that are clearly in form just now. There has to be some perspective that we have no right to beat these teams just because JBA was our manager last year.

4. The Aberdeen result was a bit of a freak result. 4 shots, 4 goals. There is no doubt however that this particular game did rock our confidence somewhat.

I see MJC calling for Steve Clarke. When are we going to realise that the old Scottish ways of playing football died in the 1980's.

We are miles behind the rest of Europe both at club level and internationally. The WC was a complete failure.

Motherwell have at least tried to break the mould and did so spectacularly last term with JBA. 

I applaud what the club has tried to do this year. It may still work but if it doesn't we can at least see the rationale behind the decision making.

Our situation reminds me somewhat of Ian Cathro at Hearts. That experiment did not work, not because Cathro was a poor manager, as he has since proved but because the environment was not conducive to him being successful in Scottish football. 

I hope at least, that AJ is at least provided the opportunity to show what he can do despite the default position of a minority of the support.

 

 

[Prestwickwell]

6 minutes ago, Lobey_Dosser said:

What is the football philosophy of the board? If it’s exciting, possession based football, Alfred has already demonstrated that he isn’t going to deliver that. Nor has he showing any signs of developing young players either. 

Think others have said that he’s trying to play last seasons football

 

if it’s not in his dna then he’s going to need to implement what is quickly to see if he can turn it round 

 

it’s currently passive, slow, sideways with no real purpose 

 

said this in the match thread, twice early we put it in behind & caused issues, surely u look at that & go their fragile there & lock it in 

 

we never put a dent in an abysmal Celtic defence today because there was no real ambition to go at them 

 

really don’t know what this managers style actually is 

[grizzlyg]

45 minutes ago, Prestwickwell said:

If u don’t think vogts was a big part of the issue then there’s no hope 😂

 

fuck being a right back with him in front of u 😂

I think our wires are being crossed here.  Vogt was brutal today...I aint denying that and he should have been hooked half time.   However....2nd goal was sparrow- SOD double act, nowt to do with Vogt.

I also don't think Vogt should be anywhere near starting line-up after today

[grizzlyg]

Question also to all the AJ haters and that he should be punted.....who do we bring in?

Our next 4 games are huge and if we can get 7pts minium then its a start.  I know its not great just now but knee-,jerk reaction solves nothing 

[Prestwickwell]

It’s not our job to say who should be brought in….& Motherwell recently won’t bring in any names on anybodies radar

 

question isn’t who….question is whether the current managers capable 

[joewarkfanclub]

45 minutes ago, star sail said:

I did not see the game today so I don't know just how bad it was but there are a few things that would make me think that there is somewhat of an  overreaction here:

1. MJC and Wellfan are cheerleading the Manager out rhetoric which they have done with some glee with pretty much every single manager we have had.

2. Two of this 4 game Armageddon run has involved the Old Firm. Rangers are on a 6 game unbeaten run and Celtic were always going to react after their OF humbling. I still believe Celtic will win the league if MON has his eye back on the ball.

3. Much as we hate to admit it the Dundee defeat was against a good side that are clearly in form just now. There has to be some perspective that we have no right to beat these teams just because JBA was our manager last year.

4. The Aberdeen result was a bit of a freak result. 4 shots, 4 goals. There is no doubt however that this particular game did rock our confidence somewhat.

I see MJC calling for Steve Clarke. When are we going to realise that the old Scottish ways of playing football died in the 1980's.

We are miles behind the rest of Europe both at club level and internationally. The WC was a complete failure.

Motherwell have at least tried to break the mould and did so spectacularly last term with JBA. 

I applaud what the club has tried to do this year. It may still work but if it doesn't we can at least see the rationale behind the decision making.

Our situation reminds me somewhat of Ian Cathro at Hearts. That experiment did not work, not because Cathro was a poor manager, as he has since proved but because the environment was not conducive to him being successful in Scottish football. 

I hope at least, that AJ is at least provided the opportunity to show what he can do despite the default position of a minority of the support.

 

 

Im usually one of the last to turn, and tonight Im officially "concerned".

Being beaten 2-0 by Celtic at home in itself isnt usually something to get perplexed about. 

But the nature of the performance and the failure of the manager to hold up his hands, or call it out are.

There are many moving parts for which he will be given time. But some signs of a structure/gameplan/identity sometime soon, wouldnt go amiss.

[wellfan]

29 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Im usually one of the last to turn, and tonight Im officially "concerned".

Being beaten 2-0 by Celtic at home in itself isnt usually something to get perplexed about. 

But the nature of the performance and the failure of the manager to hold up his hands, or call it out are.

There are many moving parts for which he will be given time. But some signs of a structure/gameplan/identity sometime soon, wouldnt go amiss.

I think the ship has already sailed on Alfred, unfortunately. Today could’ve been the day he put his hands up, took ownership, drew a line in the sand and said things have to change. But he didn’t. And that’s despite us getting progressively worse the longer he’s had on the training pitch with the players.

It’s now becoming pretty clear to me, and others, that he doesn’t really seem to know what he’s doing, and even the good players in his squad are starting to look lost as a consequence.

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, star sail said:

1. MJC and Wellfan are cheerleading the Manager out rhetoric which they have done with some glee with pretty much every single manager we have had.

I don’t think I’ve once called outright for him to be sacked or jumped on the bandwagon of those demanding it. In fact, I previously posted that he’d rightly be given time. I’m now just questioning whether that patience will ultimately be to the detriment of both him and the team. All I’ve done is point to what I see as his failings and suggest that, increasingly, they look terminal.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Prestwickwell said:

really don’t know what this managers style actually is 

Thats exactly it for me.

I'm not calling for AJ to be fired but the alarm bells are now ringing out loudly. Next Saturday will be  a big game for him and us.  Given the significant changes in personnel, I was expecting a drop off in form as the new players settled in. I also expected to see a SLIGHT change in playing style. However, what we're now witnessing is less possession; lower work rate; less organisation; no high press; and an over reliance on long high balls. Like Prestwickwell, I just can't identify any particular style of play from AJ.  Unlike JBA's early tenure, I just can't see what we're trying to do. There's no pattern to it. 

I was expecting to see some progression and improvement after more time on the training ground, but this simply isn't the case. If anything we're going backwards. Playing devil's advocate, maybe we were more successful at the start of the season as AJ didn't have the time or opportunity to deviate much from JBA's established style. Once he started to introduce his own methods and ideas then things began to go awry. Even the form of our best players has tailed off.

At our level, we invested a fair bit cash in new players over the summer and it doesn't seem to be  paying off. Some talented players, for sure, but maybe they aren't being played to their strengths? Maybe some were overrated? Not all signings succeed of course.  

Something somewhere just doesn't seem right although I've seen suggestions elsewhere about that. One thing is for sure, rightly or wrongly, the fans will have the final say, as they always do.