Supporter Conduct and the Cost to the Club

[David]

42 minutes ago, dennyc said:

But Motherwell simply identifying individuals and then  passing the buck to the police and Court System is nonsense.

No one is saying that, though, especially not me. I said if anyone is seen to be breaking the law (and under the Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles Scotland Act 2022, it is an offence to possess pyrotechnic articles at designated sporting events) then they should be dealt with accordingly by the authorities, as well as "alongside their season ticket being revoked and them personally being banned."

[weeyin]

22 minutes ago, David said:

No one is saying that, though, especially not me. I said if anyone is seen to be breaking the law (and under the Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles Scotland Act 2022, it is an offence to possess pyrotechnic articles at designated sporting events) then they should be dealt with accordingly by the authorities, as well as "alongside their season ticket being revoked and them personally being banned."

We were fined 20,000 Euros for fans discharging pyro in Germany.

Even if we were able to identify them, I can't see the Scottish police taking any action.

[David]

6 minutes ago, weeyin said:

We were fined 20,000 Euros for fans discharging pyro in Germany.

Even if we were able to identify them, I can't see the Scottish police taking any action.

Obviously I mean that any infringement of the law is dealt with by the law in the country where the offence took place. Motherwell is a Scottish club. So I mentioned Scottish law. If a Motherwell fan assaulted someone while following our club in Europe, I obviously wouldn't expect the Scottish authorities to deal with it. The same applies here. 

Scotland explicitly criminalises football-match possession of pyro. From what I can see, Germany regulates pyro mainly through general explosives law and stadium/football regulations. We could potentially identify the culprits and deal with them at club level, as I mentioned previously.

[dennyc]

15 minutes ago, David said:

No one is saying that, though, especially not me. I said if anyone is seen to be breaking the law (and under the Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles Scotland Act 2022, it is an offence to possess pyrotechnic articles at designated sporting events) then they should be dealt with accordingly by the authorities, as well as "alongside their season ticket being revoked and them personally being banned."

The Courts and Police are snowed under as it is. How many of these referrals would actually lead to a conviction or even a court appearance no matter how well supported by evidence? And those that did reach Court would take months. Many would just result in a warning to avoid flooding the Courts.. As currently happens the Police will independently intervene in the event of more serious cases....assault as I gave earlier as an example.

Where evidence is clear the Club should take immediate action,  then pass details to the Police and let them decide whether to take further action. They can judge whether legal thresholds have been exceeded. That's their job. Dealing with the football side of things is the responsibility of Motherwell, not the Police. Delaying any ban only makes Motherwell look impotent and increases the possibility of repeat offences. As I say, passing the buck to look less like the bad guys. Personally I don't want to see any Motherwell fan up in Court. But I do want to see the Club taking strong enough action to address the behaviour that is costing the club tens of thousands.  

IF earlier comments are accurate regarding Instagram posts, what are your thoughts on a Society Board Member celebrating behaviour in Freiburg that resulted in our most recent fine? As well as the graffiti work on trains/buses. Must make it difficult for the Society as a body and perhaps explains their silence on this matter. 

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

 

How do you ban 'a group' from Fir Park?

Quite easily, if the pyro displays, pitch incursions, or any other violation of the stadium code of conduct was seen to originate from a certain area of the ground, then suspend all ST't in that area and dont sell tickets for any infividual seats,

.

[David]

1 hour ago, dennyc said:

The Courts and Police are snowed under as it is. How many of these referrals would actually lead to a conviction or even a court appearance no matter how well supported by evidence? And those that did reach Court would take months. Many would just result in a warning to avoid flooding the Courts.. As currently happens the Police will independently intervene in the event of more serious cases....assault as I gave earlier as an example.

Where evidence is clear the Club should take immediate action,  then pass details to the Police and let them decide whether to take further action. They can judge whether legal thresholds have been exceeded. That's their job. Dealing with the football side of things is the responsibility of Motherwell, not the Police. Delaying any ban only makes Motherwell look impotent and increases the possibility of repeat offences. As I say, passing the buck to look less like the bad guys. Personally I don't want to see any Motherwell fan up in Court. But I do want to see the Club taking strong enough action to address the behaviour that is costing the club tens of thousands.  

So when I say "anyone actively breaking the law should be dealt with by the authorities, and the club should, whenever possible, ban and revoke season tickets" you agree? I don't understand the conversation we seem to be having? 

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Quite easily, if the pyro displays, pitch incursions, or any other violation of the stadium code of conduct was seen to originate from a certain area of the ground, then suspend all ST't in that area and dont sell tickets for any infividual seats,

So if someone, for whatever reason, decides to run onto the pitch, or otherwise violates the stadium code of conduct, and they happen to have a ticket for the section you sit in, the same rule should apply? 

[0Neils40yarder]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Quite easily, if the pyro displays, pitch incursions, or any other violation of the stadium code of conduct was seen to originate from a certain area of the ground, then suspend all ST't in that area and dont sell tickets for any infividual seats,

.

Dear oh dear...mind the boy that assaulted Leighton? Running out from the Cooper...your answer would have been close the Cooper Stand 🤔🫣

[dennyc]

25 minutes ago, David said:

So when I say "anyone actively breaking the law should be dealt with by the authorities, and the club should, whenever possible, ban and revoke season tickets" you agree? I don't understand the conversation we seem to be having? 

We differ because you suggested the club should defer any punishment until after the police process is completed. That’s what I took you to mean anyway.

 I suggested that where the Club have sufficient, definitive evidence there is no need to delay and appropriate action/banning  should be immediate. I understood you wanted no banning until after the police action was complete,  possibly months later.  If I misunderstood, then apologies. 

[David]

6 minutes ago, dennyc said:

We differ because you suggested the club should defer any punishment until after the police process is completed. That’s what I took you to mean anyway.

This is what I've said:

4 hours ago, David said:

The situation can easily be remedied. You don't aim any messaging or threats at any "groups", you simply say that anyone who is identified as breaking the law will have their details handed to the police. Simple as that. From there, it will be the decision of the country's legal framework to decide what happens, alongside their season ticket being revoked and them personally being banned.

 

2 hours ago, David said:

No one is saying that, though, especially not me. I said if anyone is seen to be breaking the law (and under the Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles Scotland Act 2022, it is an offence to possess pyrotechnic articles at designated sporting events) then they should be dealt with accordingly by the authorities, as well as "alongside their season ticket being revoked and them personally being banned."