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2018/2019 Game 37:St Johnstone (A) May 11th 3pm Kick off

Win? Lose? Or Draw?  

45 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. What you reckon the outcome will be?

    • Motherwell win
      23
    • St Johnstone win
      8
    • Draw
      14

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  • Poll closed on 05/13/2019 at 05:30 PM

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20 minutes ago, weeyin said:

According to this link (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scottish-premiership/topVerursachteElfmeter/wettbewerb/SC1) we had conceded 9 before today. The joint second lowest in the Premiership. 

Not sure how current these figures are, but sounds about right,

Cheers weeyin,I'm surprised its only been 9,it feels like a few more than that.

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That's that fucked then......

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Don't know why I'm doing this, but here goes. We had a brief glimpse of football for about five weeks after a miserable start, and for that time the manager was a hero. But here we are again back where we started. So was the board right in sticking with him for a short time, or have the overall results suggested we really do need a fresh outlook? I don't know what did to get their manager in, but he's worked wonders with players who really aren't any better than most. I think they're now regularly pulling 5K+ at home, and their SPFL payout will be pretty good. I think it's time for serious reflection because at this level of play I imagine many other options look better for a Saturday afternoon.

 

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Next week will the team turn up in beachwear and flip-flops, to confirm that they're already in holiday mode?

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We've been dross for weeks,ever since the rangers game,we have been going through the motions so its no big surprise that we've turned in another abject performance today.craggs said last night that our players were on a bonus if we finished 7th,so that makes recent performances all the more surprising.

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As i said before we'll finish 8th. Big turnaround in players required for next season. We all know where we are weak. Robbo get it sorted.

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Just now, DEWELL said:

 We all know where we are weak. Robbo get it sorted.

Where are we weak? You might get different views about this.

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If 2 draws and a lucky if entertaining win against three of the worst teams to perform in top level football in Scottish football wasn't enough then that pathetic capitulation against the team in 7th shows we are a million miles away from Top 6 and closer to relegation that our points tally might show.

Our defence was a complete shambles. Dunne showed todays he's just not good enough. An absolute nightmare of a performance and rightly hauled off. Gillespie was our man of the match but the whole of the back four needs reworked including Tait who's recent performances have been awful.

The key to the revival was the midfield but without Gorrin and Hastie the midfield is back to its old useless self, not helped by playing Turnbull so deep it wasn't uncommon to see only the goalkeeper and Dunne behind him. Cadden was atrocious today, maybe the worst of a bad bunch, he offers nothing. He came leave any time he likes. So like the defence the midfield needs completely refashioned. Gorrin, Hastie, Ariyibi all gone and I think Turnbull will go too. That leaves us with Campbell.

Up front you have to feel sorry for Scott who's been left completely isolated up front. I thought Robinson got the substitutions right today but he's got to start thinking about a formation that can accommodate a second striker.

Robinson needs to build a new team and show guys he's been loyal to the door. This group of players have had two seasons and they've not been good enough.

Next season has to be a new start, a new team. If it isn't Robinson is going to find himself in the firing line again.

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47 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

If 2 draws and a lucky if entertaining win against three of the worst teams to perform in top level football in Scottish football wasn't enough then that pathetic capitulation against the team in 7th shows we are a million miles away from Top 6 and closer to relegation that our points tally might show.

Our defence was a complete shambles. Dunne showed todays he's just not good enough. An absolute nightmare of a performance and rightly hauled off. Gillespie was our man of the match but the whole of the back four needs reworked including Tait who's recent performances have been awful.

The key to the revival was the midfield but without Gorrin and Hastie the midfield is back to its old useless self, not helped by playing Turnbull so deep it wasn't uncommon to see only the goalkeeper and Dunne behind him. Cadden was atrocious today, maybe the worst of a bad bunch, he offers nothing. He came leave any time he likes. So like the defence the midfield needs completely refashioned. Gorrin, Hastie, Ariyibi all gone and I think Turnbull will go too. That leaves us with Campbell.

Up front you have to feel sorry for Scott who's been left completely isolated up front. I thought Robinson got the substitutions right today but he's got to start thinking about a formation that can accommodate a second striker.

Robinson needs to build a new team and show guys he's been loyal to the door. This group of players have had two seasons and they've not been good enough.

Next season has to be a new start, a new team. If it isn't Robinson is going to find himself in the firing line again.

Almost agree with everything you wrote, apart from those about Cadden and Hastie.  Apart from goalkeeper every area of the team needs strengthening. Declan Gallagher will be an upgrade in central defence and his acquisition is very welcome given our lack of pace and aerial ability today.    

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1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Where are we weak? You might get different views about this.

 

8 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Almost agree with everything you wrote, apart from those about Cadden and Hastie.  Apart from goalkeeper every area of the team needs strengthening. Declan Gallagher will be an upgrade in central defence and his acquisition is very welcome given our lack of pace and aerial ability today.    

In one post you're asking where we're weak and then your totally condradicting yourself by saying every area needs strenthened. Which one is it?

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What I love is people getting their knickers in a twist in a season where we have finished comfortably away from relegation and could yet finish season on 50+ points. 

Demands almost that we finish top 6 are laughable and based on what exactly ?..

I am not saying don’t reach for the sky, but FFS at least realise and accept we are reportedly working with the 3rd lowest budget in the league and in fact any Manager that gets us above 9th is doing more than our finances dictate. 

We have a huge rebuilding job again in the summer and I would be happy having Robinson in charge of achieving that. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Where are we weak? You might get different views about this.

easy! since we were going great we have lost gorrin.main and hastie from team and as saw today with gorrin out team turnbull was dropping deeper to get ball as mchugh cannot be expected to move the play left and right which lessened our attack and scott is nowhere near mains level of strength and holding ball ip to bring others in. disappointed with reactions to hastie but understand it as if i was young id be  likely be doing same  coz im older im more accepting of his situation an i wish him all luck in the world. i do feel however Robinson hung him out to dry. hopefully polworth can take over from gorrin as he looks away. 

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32 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

What I love is people getting their knickers in a twist in a season where we have finished comfortably away from relegation and could yet finish season on 50+ points. 

Demands almost that we finish top 6 are laughable and based on what exactly ?..

I am not saying don’t reach for the sky, but FFS at least realise and accept we are reportedly working with the 3rd lowest budget in the league and in fact any Manager that gets us above 9th is doing more than our finances dictate. 

We have a huge rebuilding job again in the summer and I would be happy having Robinson in charge of achieving that. 

 

 

I was beginning to think it was only me. What finish in the league is deemed acceptable ?

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2 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

I was beginning to think it was only me. What finish in the league is deemed acceptable ?

For me a top six finish and maybe a chance at a European place should be a realistic target, getting back to the standards we set 5 or 6 years ago.  We are better than scrapping with the likes of Hamilton and St Mirren etc to avoid relegation.

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4 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

For me a top six finish and maybe a chance at a European place should be a realistic target, getting back to the standards we set 5 or 6 years ago.  We are better than scrapping with the likes of Hamilton and St Mirren etc to avoid relegation.

Far harder league now though. Season 2013/14 we had no Rangers, bottom two were Hearts and Hibs, and Aberdeen were still pretty awful. 

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1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

What finish in the league is deemed acceptable ?

It's not the finish that's important it's the general standard of play.

If you accept that the standard of a league can go up or down from season to season then  obviously finishing 8th doesn't denote the same standard of play from season to season.

Finishing 8th in a strong league might be an excellent result for a Motherwell team.  This would be the case for Motherwell in the second half of the eighties when almost all the teams above us were decent to very good and it was a big achievement to finish mid league.

The standard of the league has been in decline for decades but even relatively to the general decline this season it was very poor.  Teams like Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts have had long spells of really poor form but still finished comfortably Top 6. 

Aberdeen won 1 home match out of 8 - guess who it was against?    Hibs won 3 out of 17 matches mid season.  And the current Hearts team are absolutely, risibly tripe and yet finished Top 6 despite currently being on a run of 2 wins in 13.  None of these teams are any good.

As for the bottom three, they have to rank as three of the worst teams in the history of the Premiership.  Dundee's win today means they won't have the worst ever points tally but I believe from memory they are still currently joint second worst - and that's where 12 of our 48 points came from this season.

So finishing 8th is completely relative to the other teams and the general standard of play.    In my opinion finishing 8th when all but 1 or at a push 2, of the sides above you are pretty low quality teams is nothing to crow about and shouldn't just be accepted. The standard both as a team and relative to the league just wasn't good enough over the season.  If we'd reached the heights of mediocrity this season we'd have finished higher up the league much like Hearts and St. Johnstone did. 

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6 hours ago, DEWELL said:

In one post you're asking where we're weak and then your totally condradicting yourself by saying every area needs strenthened. Which one is it?

Not at all.  In your original post you say that every Well fan knows where we are weak.  I didn't express my own view at that point but simply questioned whether your presumption was correct. I think its unlikely that several thousand fans would all agree about that.   I also wanted to know where you thought we are weak, but you didn't clarify that.

In my second post I expressed my own view in that we are weak in all areas bar the keepers.  I would be very surprised if every fan agrees with that though.  There will be a range of views.   My posts are in no way contradictory. 

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9 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

It's not the finish that's important it's the general standard of play.

If you accept that the standard of a league can go up or down from season to season then  obviously finishing 8th doesn't denote the same standard of play from season to season.

Finishing 8th in a strong league might be an excellent result for a Motherwell team.  This would be the case for Motherwell in the second half of the eighties when almost all the teams above us were decent to very good and it was a big achievement to finish mid league.

The standard of the league has been in decline for decades but even relatively to the general decline this season it was very poor.  Teams like Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts have had long spells of really poor form but still finished comfortably Top 6. 

Aberdeen won 1 home match out of 8 - guess who it was against?    Hibs won 3 out of 17 matches mid season.  And the current Hearts team are absolutely, risibly tripe and yet finished Top 6 despite currently being on a run of 2 wins in 13.  None of these teams are any good.

As for the bottom three, they have to rank as three of the worst teams in the history of the Premiership.  Dundee's win today means they won't have the worst ever points tally but I believe from memory they are still currently joint second worst - and that's where 12 of our 48 points came from this season.

So finishing 8th is completely relative to the other teams and the general standard of play.    In my opinion finishing 8th when all but 1 or at a push 2, of the sides above you are pretty low quality teams is nothing to crow about and shouldn't just be accepted. The standard both as a team and relative to the league just wasn't good enough over the season.  If we'd reached the heights of mediocrity this season we'd have finished higher up the league much like Hearts and St. Johnstone did. 

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you say in your post above. 

But my point is and always has been that generally you find that teams with greater resources can buy better standard of player, which guess what generally determines where they finish in the league. 

We can all wish that we challenged for top 6 and Europe and people can point to what Killie have achieved. Killie appointed a very good Manager but also have an average wage circa 30% higher than ours.  Hearts are running a player budget which is at least twice that of Motherwell's. 

Unless we get a wealthy benefactor back on board or unless Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen make a monumental mess of player recruitment and we get extremely lucky then I am expecting us to be battling with St Johnstone, Killie and  ??  for a Top 6 spot.  

 

 

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A very disappointing game yesterday from several standpoints.  We seemed to compete well enough for a 15-20 minute spell in the middle of the first half but apart from that we were very poor.  Saints could easily have been 3-0 up from headers in the first 10 minutes.  Overall they were far harder working, more aggressive, better organised and more experienced than we were.   We lost too many 50/50 battles and were very poor in the air.  We also looked well off the pace.  They wanted to win it badly and we were on the beach.  Tactics wise they smothered us and the 2 wingers style of play was again totally ineffective. Not sure why Hastie was in the squad and wasn't surprised when he was constantly barracked.  I don't agree with it but it goes with the territory as one of our party said. In his 15 minutes or so on the park he did nothing.  

The defence was shambles from start to finish giving Saints far too much time and room, especially on the wings. Both Dunne and Aldred are decent in their own way but perhaps they're the wrong combination - anyway not an issue next season. Of late though, Dunne has been very error prone.  Midfield just couldn't compete with faster and more aggressive opponents.  Turnbull sat too deep and McHugh far too slow and again got caught in possession.  We missed the departing Gorrin badly.  Up front, Scott ploughed a lone furrow and got little change out of big experienced centre backs.  He kept wandering out to the wings and the wingers and central midfielders were too far away to support him.  More experience for him though and his inclusion gives us an insight into Robbo's pre match objectives. 

The referee, Colin Steven, was way out of his depth and I didn't realise until afterwards that it was his first Premiership game in charge.  Not one he'll want to remember.   Not clear at the time, but from highlights, Tanser 100% handled the ball on the line.  Red card and penalty - no.  Who scored Saints' penalty - none other than Tanser.   Saints penalty?  It looked soft but tv highlights are inconclusive.  Certainly Kane made the most of it.  What is it about Kane, Dunne and penalties!! Ref lost the plot at the penalty and booked Gillespie.  Davidson was rightly yellow carded for a late challenge and then did exactly the same thing before half time only to be given a verbal warning this time. Surely a second yellow? Who scored Saints' second goal?

Overall Saints deserved to win but the referee certainly influenced the outcome and they can consider themselves fortunate.        

 

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10 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

It's not the finish that's important it's the general standard of play.

If you accept that the standard of a league can go up or down from season to season then  obviously finishing 8th doesn't denote the same standard of play from season to season.

Finishing 8th in a strong league might be an excellent result for a Motherwell team.  This would be the case for Motherwell in the second half of the eighties when almost all the teams above us were decent to very good and it was a big achievement to finish mid league.

The standard of the league has been in decline for decades but even relatively to the general decline this season it was very poor.  Teams like Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts have had long spells of really poor form but still finished comfortably Top 6. 

Aberdeen won 1 home match out of 8 - guess who it was against?    Hibs won 3 out of 17 matches mid season.  And the current Hearts team are absolutely, risibly tripe and yet finished Top 6 despite currently being on a run of 2 wins in 13.  None of these teams are any good.

As for the bottom three, they have to rank as three of the worst teams in the history of the Premiership.  Dundee's win today means they won't have the worst ever points tally but I believe from memory they are still currently joint second worst - and that's where 12 of our 48 points came from this season.

So finishing 8th is completely relative to the other teams and the general standard of play.    In my opinion finishing 8th when all but 1 or at a push 2, of the sides above you are pretty low quality teams is nothing to crow about and shouldn't just be accepted. The standard both as a team and relative to the league just wasn't good enough over the season.  If we'd reached the heights of mediocrity this season we'd have finished higher up the league much like Hearts and St. Johnstone did. 

Maybe then it’s just the case that the standard of Scottish football has dropped in general. Should we base that lack of quality on management across the board and replace half the managers in the country or are there different factors. I would question the “relative to the league” quote. If we indeed have one of the lowest budgets surely that would suggest that in general we will perform to the level of that budget. Anything we do above that budget level is surely more a bonus and if we match it acceptable. I would also question the point regarding the general standard of play. First half of the season it was dreadful for sure, however since Robinson changed it we’ve actually seen some pretty decent  stuff. Ok it’s not been Barcelona but then you need to go back and look at the quality of players we are signing and question the general drop in quality of teams throughout the league and question other factors. Scottish football in general is not in good health in my view with very few young Scottish players coming through and then moving on make a real impact in something like the English premier league, the nation team has been going backwards at the same level.

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