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Welldaft Mk1

Europa League Campaign 2020-2021

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10 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

Who scored our first two penalties? I had to miss the last 15 mins and extra time cause of a work call. Got back onto video stream just in time to see O’Donnell score and Carson make his 3rd save. 

O'Hara and Watt, both straight down the middle, pretty unstoppable.

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3 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

Friday September 18th 2pm is when it begins 

It is a lockdown but I presume like here in UK, professional sportsman get preferential allowances to play as they are being tested.

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So on reflection a game of two half’s. We were by far the better team first half and the game should have been over, knocked the ball around well with plenty of energy, I thought Campbell was excellent with some nice touches from Watt and Land looking very sharp. Honestly I thought we would go on to win by four or five but as we’ve seen before if we start off a half sluggish it generally carries on that way and it’s fair to say that second half we were dreadful with Robinson even having to change the formation which seemed to calm us down at first before panic set in again. Not sure if Campbell picked up an injury but he was hardly seen and that alone made a huge difference, we were second to just about every ball and just not switched on, the pens were soft and I don’t like to keep highlighting Mugabi but he’s caught out far to often ball watching, he should not be losing his man, especially at this level but it happened again two or three times. Lamie was also poor and Gallagher has gone backwards, I’m not a fan of these long diagonal balls. I think we need an experienced centre half  rather like Hartly or even better Aldred although I’m still of the opinion letting him go was the right decision, we just failed to replace him. We also need another midfield player given who we have lost along with decent wide men. Three decent additions and I believe we will push on because there are still plenty of very good players in the squad. Having said all that it’s three wins from the last four and any talk of Robinson out is rediculous.

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6 hours ago, CoF said:

I rarely agree with ranty posts after a defeat, but this is pretty much spot on. 

I'm struggling to pin-point what the problem is. I don't think that we've got a bad squad of players. Individually they're all capable and I don't doubt the effort but there's just something completely incoherent about how we are playing in every part of the pitch.  There's something going on within the squad that isn't working. Whether it's just the wrong chemistry, or a loss of leadership. I don't know. 

It feels like we've got a squad that would make good players look shit. We lack an instinctive goalscorer but if we signed Louis Moult on loan tomorrow I honestly think we'd just bring him down to our level. The same could be applied across the pitch. 

Fuck knows. 

The issue for me is 1) formation 2) approach to the game.

Not a fan of 5-3-2 - maybe against old firm but not against lower quality teams.

Our tactics are defence pass to one other - tap tap tap and then hoof it up.  We completely by pass the midfield  and because we've don'e the tap tap tap thing the opposition have man marked everyone and there's no space to play. 

As you mention we have good players but we are not a teams. 

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18 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

So on reflection a game of two half’s. We were by far the better team first half and the game should have been over, knocked the ball around well with plenty of energy, I thought Campbell was excellent with some nice touches from Watt and Land looking very sharp. Honestly I thought we would go on to win by four or five but as we’ve seen before if we start off a half sluggish it generally carries on that way and it’s fair to say that second half we were dreadful with Robinson even having to change the formation which seemed to calm us down at first before panic set in again. Not sure if Campbell picked up an injury but he was hardly seen and that alone made a huge difference, we were second to just about every ball and just not switched on, the pens were soft and I don’t like to keep highlighting Mugabi but he’s caught out far to often ball watching, he should not be losing his man, especially at this level but it happened again two or three times. Lamie was also poor and Gallagher has gone backwards, I’m not a fan of these long diagonal balls. I think we need an experienced centre half  rather like Hartly or even better Aldred although I’m still of the opinion letting him go was the right decision, we just failed to replace him. We also need another midfield player given who we have lost along with decent wide men. Three decent additions and I believe we will push on because there are still plenty of very good players in the squad. Having said all that it’s three wins from the last four and any talk of Robinson out is rediculous.

For sure, a game of two halves. We should have been out of sight at 2-0 but we managed to turn in one of the worst second half performances I can remember from a Motherwell team. I’ve been going on like a broken record about the weaknesses in our squad but they are glaring. Without doubt, it stems from the management, we look devoid of ideas or any real plan, knocking it about a back three with no one dropping to collect, before launching high balls to two forwards as poor in the air as each other,  doesn’t make sense. The spirit is gone and for some reason, I cannot get the images of the Sunderland til I die squad from the first season out of my mind. We’ve got a bit of billy big baws About us from many of the playing staff and it’s infectious. We have far too many players that are collecting a wage and contributing next to nothing. There’s a total lack of leadership And urgency both on and off the park and the summer saw us let go of the two players that offered that and we have not addressed it. 
It’s all fine and well for Robinson to say it’s 3 In 4 and we’re into the next round but I’m sorry, Glentoran was even until they got reduced to 10, we were dire against st Johnston and again last night, we scraped through on penalties against a team we should be hammering in terms of quality and fitness. 
Like many, including Robinson, I have no idea what out best team is and for Gallagher to come out in the press and say survival is the aim, I’m sorry, isn’t good enough. We are, like it or not, an established top flight club, coming off the back of a top 3 finish and playing in Europe, yet we haven’t kicked on. Our rivals from last season in Hibs and Aberdeen have improved their squads, we have regressed. 
The aim at Motherwell should be a top six finish IMO, or at least that’s what we should be building for. I’m more and more of the opinion however that this squad is in the most serious threat of relegation since Malpas and something needs to be done now. 
Whether that means giving cash to Robinson or starting there are and then investing in the squad is up for debate. The hiring policy is coming back to bite us in the arse as it always would eventually and the next crop of youth players looks a mile off in terms of getting near the team either by design or coincidence. 
Without doubt, there are decent players in the squad and if I imagine purely from the perspective of an 11 on paper that’s a stick on top 6 side, we are probably 2/3 players short however the bigger issue here is attitude. If We can bring in 2/3 players at decent level (Which we desperately need) with experience (which doesn’t mean signing drivel from non-league/league 2 England), it will certainly bolster a thin looking squad, but it won’t matter a jot if the attitude of the remaining 18 or so first team players and management mentality isn’t dealt with immediately. 

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Tortuous but somehow ultimately triumphant.  As drained as I've felt watching a Motherwell game for some time. 

And all looking so good too.  We had a shaky moment or two in the first half, the free-header immediately springs to mind, but two up and a couple off the line it seemed like we were well on the way.

And suddenly....

It wasn't actually that much of a surprise that Coleraine did get a penalty as they seemed to go out of their way to claim for absolutely anything and everything inside the box throughout the game, the vast majority blatantly chancing it.  And they were none too shy in trying to create a picture for the referee. 

I don't know if there's any better angles of the incident emerged than the brief view we had of the first but from the snippet it seemed Carson was comfortably claiming the ball before a few seconds there was the coming together.  First reaction was the going down of the Coleraine player and claiming for a penalty was in keeping with their previous attempts to win one, and if O'Hara did foul him when Carson had it under control it was incredibly stupid,

We then had a horrible 15 minutes or so before the change of shape seemed to restore some order of a sort but we never at any time regained control of the game in the way we had in the first half so were always vulnerable.  We rode our luck with the disallowed goal and just when it seemed we'd done enough another penalty and red-card to boot.  Again another questionable decision.

At that point it looked grim but I would at that stage, for all the performance was had been largely abysmal in the second half, have to give them credit for re-grouping in extra-time. How much of that was down to Coleraine tiring I don't know but down to 10 men, the substitutions having largely destroyed the midfield and the home side having the momentum I thought - again riding our luck once again with the one off the line aside - we did pretty well in extra-time. I might also have expected Long to do better with his chance in the first half of extra-time.

And so to penalties. I think most of us will have thought us doomed when it got to that stage. Memories of several lost shoot-outs, Carson having already been beaten twice, their win against Maribor.  It just seemed set up for disaster.  But there you go, what a shoot-out from Carson and we're through.

I've seen us go out in Europe in unfortunate circumstances and plenty of what might have beens so I'm not going to get too hung up on fortune being with us last night to see us through.

The performances of many, and collectively for a fair chunk of the game is a different matter entirely.

 

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42 minutes ago, Kmac said:

For sure, a game of two halves. We should have been out of sight at 2-0 but we managed to turn in one of the worst second half performances I can remember from a Motherwell team. I’ve been going on like a broken record about the weaknesses in our squad but they are glaring. Without doubt, it stems from the management, we look devoid of ideas or any real plan, knocking it about a back three with no one dropping to collect, before launching high balls to two forwards as poor in the air as each other,  doesn’t make sense. The spirit is gone and for some reason, I cannot get the images of the Sunderland til I die squad from the first season out of my mind. We’ve got a bit of billy big baws About us from many of the playing staff and it’s infectious. We have far too many players that are collecting a wage and contributing next to nothing. There’s a total lack of leadership And urgency both on and off the park and the summer saw us let go of the two players that offered that and we have not addressed it. 
It’s all fine and well for Robinson to say it’s 3 In 4 and we’re into the next round but I’m sorry, Glentoran was even until they got reduced to 10, we were dire against st Johnston and again last night, we scraped through on penalties against a team we should be hammering in terms of quality and fitness. 
Like many, including Robinson, I have no idea what out best team is and for Gallagher to come out in the press and say survival is the aim, I’m sorry, isn’t good enough. We are, like it or not, an established top flight club, coming off the back of a top 3 finish and playing in Europe, yet we haven’t kicked on. Our rivals from last season in Hibs and Aberdeen have improved their squads, we have regressed. 
The aim at Motherwell should be a top six finish IMO, or at least that’s what we should be building for. I’m more and more of the opinion however that this squad is in the most serious threat of relegation since Malpas and something needs to be done now. 
Whether that means giving cash to Robinson or starting there are and then investing in the squad is up for debate. The hiring policy is coming back to bite us in the arse as it always would eventually and the next crop of youth players looks a mile off in terms of getting near the team either by design or coincidence. 
Without doubt, there are decent players in the squad and if I imagine purely from the perspective of an 11 on paper that’s a stick on top 6 side, we are probably 2/3 players short however the bigger issue here is attitude. If We can bring in 2/3 players at decent level (Which we desperately need) with experience (which doesn’t mean signing drivel from non-league/league 2 England), it will certainly bolster a thin looking squad, but it won’t matter a jot if the attitude of the remaining 18 or so first team players and management mentality isn’t dealt with immediately. 

cracking post - you've nailed a lot of the key issues.

I genuinely believe we've lost the plot , there is no game plan and that comes from the manager.  

I couldn't believe his comments ,stating last night is tough place to come - what ?  a semi pro team, who's season hasn't started yet !.  We lost it completely after 20 mins. 

We have a decent bunch of pros and  very decent midfield players - if we start playing through our midfield and bolster it to at least 4 players (who are actually midfield players)  we'll be fine. 

 

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Disagree with those questioning playing 5-3-2 against lesser opposition. If that’s the formation we’ve been playing and are going to continue playing, why not play it? I much prefer 4-3-3 personally and did think the change to that last night worked for a while. In lieu of performing wingers, I’d still be keen for us to play this with three more central strikers.

Having said that, I do think getting Carroll and Donnelly into last night’s XI would make a big difference. Even Dunne, if he ever gets fit enough to play for us again, would be better than Lamie/McGinley as the left sided centre back. I can’t see us strengthening at either end of the pitch given the numbers we already have there unfortunately, but think CM reinforcements are essential. Maguire needs to be given more of a chance also, but at the same time can understand why it would be difficult to drop a young inexperienced guy into this team at the moment. 

To echo what others have already said, I can’t figure out what the root cause of the problem is this season. Lack of leadership maybe, lack of confidence probably, players missing, teams treating us differently, who knows, but on paper I thought we looked improved on last year at the beginning of the season. Robinson will walk away some time before he’d otherwise be sacked so talk of that happening any time soon is naive, but we need to see some more intent on the pitch going forward. 

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3 hours ago, middleeastdave said:

It is a lockdown but I presume like here in UK, professional sportsman get preferential allowances to play as they are being tested.

Anyone checked the small-print of the Israeli lockdown rules? Does their definition of “professional” square with what we saw for lots of last night?

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Quote

Motherwell FC

@MotherwellFC

23m

We are in Friday’s draw for the UEFA Europa League play-off round.

Motherwell or Hapoel Be’er Sheva will face:

FC Basel/Anorthosis Famagusta

Viktoria Plzen/SønderjyskE

Besiktas/Rio Ave

The draw is at 1pm.

 

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1 hour ago, ropy said:

We have conceded 6 penalties in our last 4 European games, not very street wise.

Agree re street wise 

It became very obvious early doors that the ref was giving fouls for any sort of contact …… look at the free kicks he game against Lang for just using his body strength to turn his man

The pup team cottoned on to it and started falling over at any form off contact yet out team of seasoned professionals didn’t adapt to his interpretation of the rules.

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19 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

 

From the 3 seeded teams, the Czech team would be the best draw , we don't want Basel or Besitkas

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9 hours ago, ohwulliewullie said:

Sorry, I wasn’t very clear... I know Hapoel played in Albania, but another Israeli team played at home in Haifa tonight... so I assume we’ll be there in Israel next week as well.

Might be ,but lockdown does not start till 2pm today so last night would have been ok . Not sure how to will pan out but they seem to be taking it very seriously as can not go more than 1000 yards from home unless emergency and playing football is not that imo . Sure we will find out today 

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Coleraine went from being a top end championship team to being comfortably beaten by a good junior team, lets not forget this same team knocked out Maribor in the last round away from home. Regardless of how far along they are in pre season going over there with the attitude that we should have progressed comfortably is ignorant to say the least. The park was terrible, that brings any side down a level or two, you cannot play football on that. Scotland might not be blessed with great surfaces but that is on par with a council run sunday league pitch. Both penalties looked very soft, the ref gave us nothing all night. We could have been out of sight in the first half and probably should have been but conceding that early penalty makes it a whole different ball game. At the end of the day, it wasn't pretty but we are in the hat for the next round and they aren't.

 

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28 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

From the 3 seeded teams, the Czech team would be the best draw , we don't want Basel or Besitkas

Agreed, we get the Plzen/SonderjyskE draw and we have got the best chance we've ever had to make the group stages, despite how poor we were in the 2nd half last night.

 

Still can't believe people think either of those were penalties last night, they were both completely pathetic from the Coleraine players imo.

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5 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

Agreed, we get the Plzen/SonderjyskE draw and we have got the best chance we've ever had to make the group stages, despite how poor we were in the 2nd half last night.

 

Still can't believe people think either of those were penalties last night, they were both completely pathetic from the Coleraine players imo.

 

Play like we did in that second half and we're onto a pumping from Be'er Sheva or any of the 6 potential opponents in the next round.

 

And aye, they're never penalties.  Cheating bastards.

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20 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Agree re street wise 

It became very obvious early doors that the ref was giving fouls for any sort of contact …… look at the free kicks he game against Lang for just using his body strength to turn his man

The pup team cottoned on to it and started falling over at any form off contact yet out team of seasoned professionals didn’t adapt to his interpretation of the rules.

Would normally agree with that sort of post. But last night wasn’t about being street wise. The Lang penalty claim early doors was exactly the same as he gave against Mugabi and sent him off for. In fact Lang was trying to be ‘street smart’ at the start of the game and got zero from the ref.  Some of the heavy contact some of our players took and not so much as a foul. The ease of which we were carded for nothing yet there players again escaped punishment for some heavy tackles. Tommy Wright even mentioning that’s good refereeing for not carding the boy, that may be but not when it’s totally inconsistent with the way you’ve ref’d the other side. 
 

Sometimes in football the ref just seems to favour the underdog team.  Last night was a shocking display from the officials. We can all talk and agree with the standards of our own teams performance 2nd half where I don’t think anyone on here will disagree with. But simply put, there would’ve been no come back last night without two non penalties given against us. 
 

The shouts that it was a stonewall penalty at the end because Mugabi got the wrong side are about as wild as I’ve seen on here. You don’t get penalised for being the wrong side. You get penalised for fouling an opponent. Which Big Bevis didn’t do. 

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I have said it in a previous post, we do not have a leader on the park. When we had Hartley, while he was pretty slow, he was a leader and I believe could motivate the team. Gallagher is not the right man for captain I'm afraid. Also a previous poster mentioned as I did "billy big baws" they play like they just need to turn up, and they'll win. Two nothing up, if that had been the ugly sisters they would have run that team into the ground,  not ease off and let them back into the game. The same thing happened against Hamilton, we let them back not the game, the problem being if you ease off, its very difficult to raise your game. We need to play at tempo for 90 minutes, not 45.

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23 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

Coleraine went from being a top end championship team to being comfortably beaten by a good junior team, lets not forget this same team knocked out Maribor in the last round away from home. Regardless of how far along they are in pre season going over there with the attitude that we should have progressed comfortably is ignorant to say the least. The park was terrible, that brings any side down a level or two, you cannot play football on that. Scotland might not be blessed with great surfaces but that is on par with a council run sunday league pitch. Both penalties looked very soft, the ref gave us nothing all night. We could have been out of sight in the first half and probably should have been but conceding that early penalty makes it a whole different ball game. At the end of the day, it wasn't pretty but we are in the hat for the next round and they aren't.

 

Great post, that pitch definitely a leveller. They never cut us open and barring 2 dubious penalties, probably wouldn’t have scored.

its ok saying you know the ref was blowing for everything but if players throw themselves in the box, any challenge is risky.

chris Long is not a goalscorer 

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10 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

He did not pull him down - he brushed against him and the player threw himself to the floor.  Two of the softest penalties I have seen in a game. O Hara has not been great since he came back but you could see he was totally bewildered by the 1st penalty. 

I agree he did not pull him down but he defended the situation poorly and everyone knows if you are wrong side and a striker feels any contact they go down....and usually get the penalty.

Having said that I think Mugabi has been the best of a bad bunch this season.  Declan Gallagher's drop off has been enormous.  Is he doing a Morelos?

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I've calmed down a bit now, the pitch was appalling and it did hurt us, they managed it a lot better than us and when our energy dropped off at 2-0 up they took advantage of it.  The important thing is we're through and we see how it goes next week.

 

Who knows what the arrangements will be for the tie, we might get lucky and get a bye....

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Do we think its actually the manager that's the issue and not the players?Cause the levels from last season to this is mind blowing.This whole defenders to the half way line and hoof it forward more so diagonally its totally not working when we pass and move it works a treat.

Makes no sense to go away to a team thats bread and butter is long ball soak it up and attack. The amount of times we just kicked it at them for them to run at us time and time again.Punting the ball at Seedorf for him to try and win it with his head is beyond pointless.

We need something up front,something different we don't look like a team that's going to score much goals from the frontline.

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2 hours ago, ropy said:

We have conceded 6 penalties in our last 4 European games, not very street wise.

The other three were about 5 years ago and a totally different team!!  

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