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2021/2022 Rebuild

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28 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Clearly an insight I dont have, and still dont really understand. You could help me out?

Footballers’ contracts are generally paid up in full differing from standard employment types. Transfer fees can be determined by this and are used in this way.

Not just on your posts, do some really think our club hold all the aces here? I certainly don’t expect anything out the ordinary of a transfer fee and not for the sums being quoted on here.

More to it than that, ‘it’s all about Tony’…

Let Alexander be ruthless.

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It seems that GA has been preparing for life after Watt for a while, with the KVV signing, and possibly the Tierney one. This may see us keep Roberts too, since he's more suited to that wide left role.

But looking at some of the subtext above, does GA have problems with him?

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1 hour ago, Onthefringes said:

Footballers’ contracts are generally paid up in full differing from standard employment types. Transfer fees can be determined by this and are used in this way.

Not just on your posts, do some really think our club hold all the aces here? I certainly don’t expect anything out the ordinary of a transfer fee and not for the sums being quoted on here.

More to it than that, ‘it’s all about Tony’…

Let Alexander be ruthless.

Thank you. I didnt know that it was general practice to pay a contract in full if another club  wants to sign your player.  It would seem common sense that if you choose to leave to go to another job then you have broken your contract. Not the selling club.  Although I guess Watt could say he hasnt chosen to leave, he is happy to stay to the end of the season and it is the club that is forcing the move now becuase of fan reaction, not him.

I look forward to seeing how ruthless GA can be.

 

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2 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Footballers’ contracts are generally paid up in full differing from standard employment types.

So if Tony Watt signs a pre-contract with Dundee United, and then expresses an interest in moving next month rather than the summer as it will allow him to begin earning those higher wages United are offering him five months sooner, we will pay up the remainder of his contract to him as well? 

He's onto a winner there then! 

I always assumed that the paying up in full of a players contract was done by the selling club if they wanted to move a player on who perhaps wasn't so keen on leaving and needed a little sweetener to change his mind.

 

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10 minutes ago, David said:

So if Tony Watt signs a pre-contract with Dundee United, and then expresses an interest in moving next month rather than the summer as it will allow him to begin earning those higher wages United are offering him five months sooner, we will pay up the remainder of his contract to him as well? 

He's onto a winner there then! 

I always assumed that the paying up in full of a players contract was done by the selling club if they wanted to move a player on who perhaps wasn't so keen on leaving and needed a little sweetener to change his mind.

Not the point being discussed, but, you batter in.

Has he done this? Certainly don’t think or believe that to be the case.

Never assume. How are these little sweeteners funded? Dare say in many cases percentage of transfer monies…

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29 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Not the point being discussed, but, you batter in.

Has he done this? Certainly don’t think or believe that to be the case.

Never assume. How are these little sweeteners funded? Dare say in many cases percentage of transfer monies…

Quick question, but why do you always need to take a confrontational tone whenever you post? Are you like that in real life? Or just a bit of an arse on this forum? 

I was simply asking, since you seem to know, if the paying up of said contract would still occur even if Watt wanted to leave and was in favour of the move? I can understand offering to pay someone's contract up if you wanted to get them off the wage bill and perhaps move them on when they're not quite into the idea, as a little sweetener? A way to convince them it's a move worth making?

I just thought that since any move to shift Watt in January would more than likely be something that the player himself would be happy with that the idea of paying off his remaining contract with us wouldn't be a factor. He would be making, in theory, the move that he's agreed to already, except sooner, thus providing him with the higher wages he's agreed to a few months ahead of schedule, no?

I'm genuinely curious.

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I think I'm usually pretty good at parsing OtF's obliquity but I'm struggling with this one.  Watt doesn't want to leave in January so we're apparently taking a small fee from United then using it to pay off his contract?

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Just now, Yassin said:

I think I'm usually pretty good at parsing OtF's obliquity but I'm struggling with this one.  Watt doesn't want to leave in January so we're apparently taking a small fee from United then using it to pay off his contract?

But if that's the case, then wouldn't that mean we're basically letting our top goalscorer go early, allowing him to bolster the squad of a direct competitor for absolutely nothing? 

If Watt is adamant that he didn't want to go, in theory, then surely it makes better sense to hold him to his contract and either play him if the manager thinks his head and heart is in it, or bench him? 

I would think the only way a deal happens in January is if the club benefits from it in some way. Most likely in a small transfer fee that we can then use to help sign someone else to replace Watt?

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29 minutes ago, David said:

Quick question, but why do you always need to take a confrontational tone whenever you post? Are you like that in real life? Or just a bit of an arse on this forum? 

I was simply asking, since you seem to know, if the paying up of said contract would still occur even if Watt wanted to leave and was in favour of the move? I can understand offering to pay someone's contract up if you wanted to get them off the wage bill and perhaps move them on when they're not quite into the idea, as a little sweetener? A way to convince them it's a move worth making?

I just thought that since any move to shift Watt in January would more than likely be something that the player himself would be happy with that the idea of paying off his remaining contract with us wouldn't be a factor. He would be making, in theory, the move that he's agreed to already, except sooner, thus providing him with the higher wages he's agreed to a few months ahead of schedule, no?

I'm genuinely curious.

Simply gave an observation, nothing confrontational in that. Certainly no need for personal slate, but, not the first time you’ve resorted to that.

How would I know ‘if the paying up of said contract would still occur even if Watt wanted to leave and was in favour of the move?’ As much as it’s highly unlikely, I’d suggest no in that scenario, it wasn’t the point being discussed and given some of the wild takes I’ve read of late, yours is up there.

Too many variables, how the club choose to end this particular contract will be known soon enough.

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I think I’d be phrasing it as a decent transfer fee to cover the following

1. loosing our top scorer

2. Direct rival boosting their squad

3. possible effect on final league placing

4. we now need to find a suitable replacement

so for me United fork out decent money to buy him now for what he is worth. Or he stays here. Even if he doesn’t play another game, it benefits us in that he has not played for United. I’m more than happy to see him play if he gives it 100%

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1 minute ago, texanwellfan said:

I think I’d be phrasing it as a decent transfer fee to cover the following

1. loosing our top scorer

2. Direct rival boosting their squad

3. possible effect on final league placing

4. we now need to find a suitable replacement

so for me United fork out decent money to buy him now for what he is worth. Or he stays here. Even if he doesn’t play another game, it benefits us in that he has not played for United. I’m more than happy to see him play if he gives it 100%

Think him being benched when all this blew up is all the signs from GA that he will not be playing Mr Watt any time soon (if ever).

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41 minutes ago, Yassin said:

I think I'm usually pretty good at parsing OtF's obliquity but I'm struggling with this one.  Watt doesn't want to leave in January so we're apparently taking a small fee from United then using it to pay off his contract?

Again, not the point being discussed. Nowhere was it mentioned Watt wanting to leave in January.

A general ideal that, were the club to decide he goes next month any proposed or percentage there of transfer fee would meet cancellation of the existing contract. Widely recognised how that works.

There will be an optimum figure at play.

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Tony Watt has been very good for us this season, though interestingly Alexander left him out a bit at the start of the year so assuming there's still a bit of issue there.

I assume Watt will be away in January and we'll bring someone else in.

It's always exciting to see a new striker come in so that's something to look forward to. Ideally early in Jan so we're settled ahead of some big games.

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I'd be extremely surprised if we let him go in January. £200k isn't enough for him if it would help United overtake us in the league.

 

If he has signed a pre-contract I'm absolutely certain he'll be with us until the summer but won't play again.

 

Edit - the above got me thinking about Casper Sloth regularly warming the bench for us, apparently he's now at the Icelandic mob that knocked us out the Europa League a few years ago.

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1 hour ago, GazzyB said:

I'd be extremely surprised if we let him go in January. £200k isn't enough for him if it would help United overtake us in the league.

£20k for each goal he scores until the end of the season and £100k for each position higher they finish this season after they sign him.

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If there's no financial gain for us, you'd think the only sensible option is to hang onto Watt till the end of the season. But I suppose there are other issues to take into account. Players obviously have their pals at a club, and if someone's hanging around, not getting a game as a 'punishment', there's the potential for unrest among the squad.

Having said that, I have no idea how keen Watt is to get away, what his attitude is like, or if Alexander wants to make an example of him, as he did with Gallagher in the end.

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16 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

If there's no financial gain for us, you'd think the only sensible option is to hang onto Watt till the end of the season. But I suppose there are other issues to take into account. Players obviously have their pals at a club, and if someone's hanging around, not getting a game as a 'punishment', there's the potential for unrest among the squad.

Having said that, I have no idea how keen Watt is to get away, what his attitude is like, or if Alexander wants to make an example of him, as he did with Gallagher in the end.

Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. If Watt stays and is not going to get a game then he could quickly become a disruptive influence. That might not be in his character but he is unlikely to be happy ! 

The fact he was such a key player and seems an all round good egg (apart from his duplicitous dealings with United) then there is no way this will not be a bad thing for Motherwell. 

Best for all for him to move on in January even if it meant we broke even. Hopefully his form nosedives and United continue their slide down the table. I always got the impression GA was not a fan of his social media / gaming activities. Yes he was performing on the pitch but not sure GA will lose much sleep. Try to get in a decent replacement but it gives Shields and VV the chance to shine and one game in so far so good…

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When will the Luis Moult talk start again ? Even injured he’s got to be in the frame.

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40 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

When will the Luis Moult talk start again ? Even injured he’s got to be in the frame.

Does Valakari rate him?

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2 hours ago, bobbybingo said:

If there's no financial gain for us, you'd think the only sensible option is to hang onto Watt till the end of the season. But I suppose there are other issues to take into account. Players obviously have their pals at a club, and if someone's hanging around, not getting a game as a 'punishment', there's the potential for unrest among the squad.

Having said that, I have no idea how keen Watt is to get away, what his attitude is like, or if Alexander wants to make an example of him, as he did with Gallagher in the end.

I can smell his agent from here.

Dont tell Motherwell you want to move in January so you don't lose out if it happens.

I'll plant the seeds of a potential January move with my mates in the press and see if Utd bite.

Motherwell get pissed off and sell you as they don't want an unhappy player.

Win win.

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5 hours ago, Well Well said:

Think him being benched when all this blew up is all the signs from GA that he will not be playing Mr Watt any time soon (if ever).

If he's here in January and it's past the time when he can force through a move I'd give him a chance to show he's still committed. Other players have managed it. 

But before the window shuts giving him the chance to play at 50% strengthens United's position. 

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3 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

When will the Luis Moult talk start again ? Even injured he’s got to be in the frame.

I am sorry we cannot afford anymore injury prone players, this will be the problem with KVV and can be out injured if not suspended!!

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Go easy on TW today, it's his birthday!! Lol, only know that cos of the cringeworthy  Facebook posts the club put on whenever it is a players birthday

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14 hours ago, santheman said:

I can smell his agent from here.

Dont tell Motherwell you want to move in January so you don't lose out if it happens.

I'll plant the seeds of a potential January move with my mates in the press and see if Utd bite.

Motherwell get pissed off and sell you as they don't want an unhappy player.

Win win.

Why do you believe that a player who is seemingly happy here would go out of his way with his seemingly supervillain-esque agent to work against the club? You really think both Watt and his agent were sat there cackling as they read the headlines in the media?

I know it's not a popular theory, but maybe, just maybe, he loves being at the club and he has a lot of affection for the people at the club but simply has to move to earn more money? It doesn't have to be either "Watt loves the club and will refuse any and all offers of more money because he wants to be here" or "he was only kidding on he loved the club, he really hates the club and wants to work with his agent to screw us over."

In fact, I'm willing to bet that there's not a single person either in the offices or in the dressing room who doesn't understand why he wants to leave. We made him our best offer, but he's received a better one from a club an hour a half up the road. 

He's in the form of his life. He'd be mental not to capitalise on it while he can. It's a short career, and you need to bank as much as you can, especially when you're not earning huge money to begin with. 

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