Jump to content

postiejim

Alexander.

Recommended Posts

I think when you have a situation where clubs in the English 5th tier can pay more money than our club for players we need to re-assess the model and ask whether trying to sign players from these leagues is of benefit to us. For every Louis Moult and Cedric Kipre that are unearthed, there are another half dozen who are nothing more than journeyman professionals who are doing nothing to improve the quality of our squad/league.  

The future for clubs our size has to be developing young local talent. Yes, we may lose many of them to english academys before they play a first team game, but it shouldnt stop us trying. Your Cadden, Turnbull, Campbell, Hastie, Cornelius' are the way ahead for us and the only chance we have to try and challenge and improve because there is no ceiling on the level that talent could pitentially reach.

We do of course need a core of experienced players to support and guide them, but these should be handpicked, known quantities rather than just the "total punts" we seem to have favoured over the last few years.

In my opinion, our next manager has to fulfill those criteria if we are to halt the current malaise.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I think when you have a situation where clubs in the English 5th tier can pay more money than our club for llayers we need to re-assess the model and ask whether trying to sign players from these leagues is of benefit to us. For every Louis Moult and Cedric Kipre that are unearthed, there are another half dozen who are nothing more than journeyman professionals who are doing nothing to improve the quality of our squad/league.  

The future for clubs our size has to be developing young local talent. Yes, we may lose many of them to english academys before they play a first team game, but it shouldnt stop us trying. Your Cadden, Turnbull, Campbell, Hastie, Cornelius' are the way ahead for us and the only chance we have to try and challenge and improve because there is no ceiling on the level that talent could pitentially reach.

We do of course need a core of experienced players to support and guide them, but these should be handpicked, known quantities rather than just the "total punts" we seem to have favoured over the last few years.

In my opinion, our next manager has to fulfill those criteria if we are to halt the current malaise.

Lot of merit in that post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I think when you have a situation where clubs in the English 5th tier can pay more money than our club for llayers we need to re-assess the model and ask whether trying to sign players from these leagues is of benefit to us. For every Louis Moult and Cedric Kipre that are unearthed, there are another half dozen who are nothing more than journeyman professionals who are doing nothing to improve the quality of our squad/league.  

The future for clubs our size has to be developing young local talent. Yes, we may lose many of them to english academys before they play a first team game, but it shouldnt stop us trying. Your Cadden, Turnbull, Campbell, Hastie, Cornelius' are the way ahead for us and the only chance we have to try and challenge and improve because there is no ceiling on the level that talent could pitentially reach.

We do of course need a core of experienced players to support and guide them, but these should be handpicked, known quantities rather than just the "total punts" we seem to have favoured over the last few years.

In my opinion, our next manager has to fulfill those criteria if we are to halt the current malaise.

The reality I fear is that’s easier said than done. As you say many are lost before they even have a chance of the first team, those that do come through every few years hardly play a game for the first team before we lose them again and of course that development costs money. Much of what is made in transfer fees then needs to go back into development. If we could keep young talent for  a couple of seasons and actually enjoy watching them great but how quickly did we lose Hastie, Scott, Turnbull, their impact was very short and sweet. The problem with handpicked known quantities “of a certain level” is they are chased by everyone else and priced out of our budget hence the club has tried to sign players who have done relatively well at the top end of the championship and decent Premiership level players. Even then we have supporters writing those players off before they have hardly kicked a ball in anger, look at the three new signings this season, it’s not exactly going to install confidence if you are told you’re shite after 30 minutes of the first game. There are a list of players signed from Scottish football over the last couple of years who were certainly not total punts and they pretty much all took a kicking.  I would argue most were in fact known quantities “ of a level we can attract, and afford” we’ve just signed another two.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

The reality I fear is that’s easier said than done. As you say many are lost before they even have a chance of the first team, those that do come through every few years hardly play a game for the first team before we lose them again and of course that development costs money. Much of what is made in transfer fees then needs to go back into development. If we could keep young talent for  a couple of seasons and actually enjoy watching them great but how quickly did we lose Hastie, Scott, Turnbull, their impact was very short and sweet. The problem with handpicked known quantities “of a certain level” is they are chased by everyone else and priced out of our budget hence the club has tried to sign players who have done relatively well at the top end of the championship and decent Premiership level players. Even then we have supporters writing those players off before they have hardly kicked a ball in anger, look at the three new signings this season, it’s not exactly going to install confidence if you are told you’re shite after 30 minutes of the first game. There are a list of players signed from Scottish football over the last couple of years who were certainly not total punts and they pretty much all took a kicking.  I would argue most were in fact known quantities “ of a level we can attract, and afford” we’ve just signed another two.

Im more than happy with Spittal and McGinn (albeit you could argue whether we needed McGinn) and I think Morris could have something to offer in a settled side. I thought it signalled a slight change in signing policy. Those are probably the kind of signings I think we need to support the young players coming through. Another Cooper or Phil O'Donnell would be even better, although probably a little fanciful in the current climate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say this within 5 mins of young Spiers debut a Motherwell born local lad folk were posting he is shite,not fit,don't fancy him much doesn't look a player.

Kelly speaks his mind being open and it's hang him high,might not turn up for us now,might not put in the effort.

Blows my mind and I won't be shocked if Kelly  might even go  this transfer window and I wouldn't hold it against him.

Football is about opinions but some folk really need to have a look at themselves it's embarrassing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

The future for clubs our size has to be developing young local talent.

It certainly should be, even HAS to be. The problem is that no-one in the top division has the patience or the balls to make it a priority. I think clubs see it as too much of a risk in the short term with the threat of relegation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wellup83 said:

It certainly should be, even HAS to be. The problem is that no-one in the top division has the patience or the balls to make it a priority. I think clubs see it as too much of a risk in the short term with the threat of relegation.

That is certainly true.

The way I look at it though, is that the quality of exeprienced player we are able to bring in now has fallen so low, the risk of playing a young player you have faith in is becoming negligible.

Id much rather watch a team of our youngsters have a go an develop than a group of journeyman that are never going to improve.

Balancing the two is the trick, and finding a manager brave enough and with the skills to do is the key.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spit_It_Out said:

I say this within 5 mins of young Spiers debut a Motherwell born local lad folk were posting he is shite,not fit,don't fancy him much doesn't look a player.

Kelly speaks his mind being open and it's hang him high,might not turn up for us now,might not put in the effort.

Blows my mind and I won't be shocked if Kelly  might even go  this transfer window and I wouldn't hold it against him.

Football is about opinions but some folk really need to have a look at themselves it's embarrassing.

I dont think Kelly is going to make a decision on where he plays his football off the back of criticism from a minority of reactionary idiots who really should know better.

He got a standing ovation leaving the pitch yesterday. He knows the majority of fans appreciate him.

We may well lose him in Junuary, butnit wil be because another club with more money recognises his talent too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I've said many times in the past, the entire point of an Academy is develop a quality of player we could never afford to buy - with a secondary important benefit of generating revenue when we sell players on.

One of the bigger challenges we (and lots of clubs our size) face these days is getting any games from the young talent as bigger clubs come in and poach them before they sign their senior contracts.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, David said:

 

I'd hate to see us get a reputation in the game as a place where players and managers actively avoid unless they have no other option.

Unfortunately we've had that rep for years

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, weeyin said:

As I've said many times in the past, the entire point of an Academy is develop a quality of player we could never afford to buy - with a secondary important benefit of generating revenue when we sell players on.

One of the bigger challenges we (and lots of clubs our size) face these days is getting any games from the young talent as bigger clubs come in and poach them before they sign their senior contracts.

 

And that’s not going to get any easier. Even then all we are doing is developing players for the likes of Rangers and Celtic. Yes we can make some money at times but they spend little time in the first team before moving on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Yabba's Turd said:

Unfortunately we've had that rep for years

Not sure I understand this comment.  Unless everyone is lying most Managers and players I recall have said this is a very stable club with a supportive Board. 

Finances tend to dictate overall and we simply don’t have the budget to get the better or best Managers or players. 

The reality is that as a result most of the players we bring to the club will not be a Moult, Kipre, Marv Johnson. Probably one in 7-10 players will have that impact or probably even lower odds. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

Not sure I understand this comment.  Unless everyone is lying most Managers and players I recall have said this is a very stable club with a supportive Board. 

Finances tend to dictate overall and we simply don’t have the budget to get the better or best Managers or players. 

The reality is that as a result most of the players we bring to the club will not be a Moult, Kipre, Marv Johnson. Probably one in 7-10 players will have that impact or probably even lower odds. 
 

We have one of the worst supports in football, no patience and one of the most toxic.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Yabba's Turd said:

We have one of the worst supports in football, no patience and one of the most toxic.

That we are agreed on. 
I was in Sligo and the abuse at the Manager and players was OTT.

The high (low) point came when a fan launched a foul mouth verbal tirade at Liam Kelly for a full on two minutes during the 2nd half. Kelly was clearly at a loss how to react other than to roll his eyes and hold his arms up.  Their reaction if told to shut up is usually to threaten physical abuse or as some sadly witnessed actual physical abuse !! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Yabba's Turd said:

We have one of the worst supports in football, no patience and one of the most toxic.

We do have an element whose behaviour is embarrassing and can be toxic but you have an element like that at every club.

We need an appointment that can really get the fans on board. I don't think someone like say Tommy Wright is going to get the fans excited and thankfully the Robbo one looked like a non story.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

That we are agreed on. 
I was in Sligo and the abuse at the Manager and players was OTT.

The high (low) point came when a fan launched a foul mouth verbal tirade at Liam Kelly for a full on two minutes during the 2nd half. Kelly was clearly at a loss how to react other than to roll his eyes and hold his arms up.  Their reaction if told to shut up is usually to threaten physical abuse or as some sadly witnessed actual physical abuse !! 

That just beggars belief...like I said....we have an element whose behaviour is an embarrassment 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, grizzlyg said:

We do have an element whose behaviour is embarrassing and can be toxic but you have an element like that at every club.

We need an appointment that can really get the fans on board. I don't think someone like say Tommy Wright is going to get the fans excited and thankfully the Robbo one looked like a non story.

 

I would say, when fans of other clubs comment on the state of our home fans berating the team you have a bigger problem than an element like that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Yabba's Turd said:

I would say, when fans of other clubs comment on the state of our home fans berating the team you have a bigger problem than an element like that.

Will take your word for it pal, I don't read comments from other fans. But can't disagree that there is an element where behaviour is shocking 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We appear to have a proven working academy which produces a couple of players a year. There is a clear pathway to the first team but unfortunately, as we all know, the cream of the crop leaves before we even see them and all we can hope for is that they generate future income but at the moment it seems like it’s the Well society that’s paying for the academy. 
The other youngsters who make it through to the first team are the hard working young players who will become professional players at or around our level, decent players who sometimes make mistakes but on the whole put in a shift and hopefully don’t get to much abuse. There very unlikely to be stars who go on to greater things but if we’re lucky they might just exceed everyone’s expectations. 
As said these guys need more experienced guys around them and this is where the club has to target it’s small resources alongside taking a punt on one or two guys who can generate a return. 
Bottom line is that free flowing exciting football plays second fiddle to the reality of trying to stay in the premiership. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Ideally everyone promoted from the academy can go on to have a decent professional career, whether it's for us or elsewhere.

There will be some that get plucked before getting a game for us, and others that will excel and go for a few quid after a good season, maybe two. But we could really do with bringing through a few that are decent at our level and can rack up 100+ games. I'd rather have players we've brought through filling those roles than an endless cycle of English lower league jobbers.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

We do have an element whose behaviour is embarrassing and can be toxic but you have an element like that at every club.

 

 

Yes, but we are talking about OUR club!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Winning by Name said:

Yes, but we are talking about OUR club!

TBF though the guy's comment was targeting a posters comment on how "we have one of the worst supports in football", which is an absolutely wild opinion IMO, yes we have arseholes in our support but considering the regular behaviour of the Old Firm and some of the behaviour of Aberdeen, Hibs and St Mirren fans on their respective visits to Fir Park last season we are no where near being the worst in our own country.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

That we are agreed on. 
I was in Sligo and the abuse at the Manager and players was OTT.

The high (low) point came when a fan launched a foul mouth verbal tirade at Liam Kelly for a full on two minutes during the 2nd half. Kelly was clearly at a loss how to react other than to roll his eyes and hold his arms up.  Their reaction if told to shut up is usually to threaten physical abuse or as some sadly witnessed actual physical abuse !! 

This was a separate issue and nothing in the context of this debate. Appreciate its not a good look & regrettable for both parties but, matter has been concluded amicably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, pretzel said:

TBF though the guy's comment was targeting a posters comment on how "we have one of the worst supports in football", which is an absolutely wild opinion IMO, yes we have arseholes in our support but considering the regular behaviour of the Old Firm and some of the behaviour of Aberdeen, Hibs and St Mirren fans on their respective visits to Fir Park last season we are no where near being the worst in our own country.

 

One of the worst for berating mistakes and players instantly, it goes from 0-10 very quickly, no one is questioning whether we have arseholes in our support, we have a reputation for getting on the team's back quickly

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does blow my mind how a manager saves you from relegation gets you a top six finish but has to put up with regular abuse to a manager Ie Robinson left us in said relegation mess,football was just as bad if not worse gets a standing ovation when he returns with St Mirren Something not right with that.Seem to have a fan base with a very selective mind.

Worst fans I don't think so,some toxic entitled fans it's the kinda folk who have the I paid my money mentality so I can act as I want mindset all clubs have them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

Twitter @MotherwellFC

×