FirParkCornerExile
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Posts posted by FirParkCornerExile
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12 minutes ago, johnstone said:
End of the day the optics of this in the media for the club are horrendous.
I can’t imagine Kettlewell made this decision lightly so I would tend to believe that the abuse has been more than just fans shouting from the stands.
I am usually in the east stand and have certainly not heard much against him.
So you have to think that this goes further and maybe is social media abuse?
End of the day it looks awful for us and is not going to help attract a new manger or players to the club.
Wont affect who we go for or who'd likely take it one iota.
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Just now, santheman said:
Aye there's that and he is very adept at using the media to his advantage so shifting the blame onto the fans would leave him looking like the wronged party.
Maybe he's overstated the level of abuse but there's certainly been some personal stuff directed at him which I've witnessed personally that was out of order.
As you say we'll never know what's been said between him and the Board.
Either or I just don't think the inevitable headlines will leave us looking in a very good light as a club.
its football, its tomorrows chip paper and please don't consider that's me condoning any personal abuse of SK. I think he worked very hard for us but what we watched for most of his tenure would turn you to stone. For me he had the Ross County and Dundee game to show me something different but we will now never know.
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1 hour ago, MJC said:
Certain media outlets now running with the headlines that Kettlewell walked due to “fan abuse”.
of course they are , it makes headlines and the media all look after their mates in football. That why no cunt who is dreadful is ever short of a gig. Again, I don't know how bad it was and it should be condemned if it happened but you can rest assured the media will not give balance , it will ALL be the fans fault cos that agenda suits.
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1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:
I never said it did.
However the ones who are should be called out.
I said after Alexander we would struggle to attract good managers to the club and we have struggled. Now it's happened again.
What does the future hold for us when managers are rewarded with hatred for what is to all extent and purposes, relative success?
This has become a trend and if it continues we are going to be the worse for it.
Mate you are being naive if you think this doesn't happen at all clubs when fans aint happy. I'm not trying to defend abuse but its the nature of the beast and every player and manager knows it. It wont stop anyone whose genuinely interested from taking the job.
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1 hour ago, weeyin said:
Time to bring in Simo with that expansive, attractive football that's being played in Perth?
nah he looks like Mrs Doubtfire lol
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1 hour ago, Richie said:
The Daily Record is saying we're going for Robinson.
If this isnt a wind up post - The Daily Record prints shite and SR would give us a two fingered salute.
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1 hour ago, MJC said:
A lot of human beings are deplorable. And nasty, spiteful and in some cases downright evil.
But I don't think that that applies solely to Motherwell fans.
Correct Clement continues to receive abuse and the Aberdeen fans still abuse Goodwin and actually chuck missiles at him.
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1 hour ago, Clackscat said:
I think the 'abuse' bit is a convenient scapegoat.
He's realised he can't turn this round so he is going now to protect the legacy of the good things he has done, unsullied by a potential relegation battle, now leaving a club that has backed him to the hilt in the transfer market managerless with only a week to go in the window.
That Daily Record piece could have been written by SK himself, all the positives, none of the negatives.
That is a very distinct possibility and his mates in the media will ensure that's the narrative.
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1 hour ago, MJC said:
For me Stuart Kettlewell leaves the club having overseen some very positive results.
Keeping us up more than comfortably in 2023 after the combined debacle of Alexander and Hammell.
Securing back to back draws at Celtic Park ending a wretched run against them stretching back to 2018
Being the first Motherwell manager in over twenty years to guide us to a league victory over Rangers and the first in 27 years to win a League match at Ibrox
Theo Bair
Pulling things around after a dismal run last season and securing Premiership safety
And getting us to our first Semi Final in over six years
Yes the football was dreadful a lot of the time and the results matched that especially in late 2023 but he does go with some credit in the bank.
He does and it serves his future prospects no harm to blame it all on the fans.
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1 hour ago, santheman said:
Probably inevitable but at this moment in time I feel a bit ashamed being a Motherwell fan given the circumstances.
Some of our support really are *****.
To a degree , he might also be pointing at the easiest target other than himself. I cant comment on the personal abuse as I never witnessed it but it shouldn't happen. There is also the possibility he had lost the dressing room and could see the writing on the wall , so chuck it with a record on paper that stands up and blame everyone else and his future employment is safeguarded. We will never know the truth.
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11 minutes ago, Wellsince1976 said:
How many will be willing to apply when they see the abuse the manager of a "community club" receives. I was behind him, right up until after the semi, but the football was turgid. I wish him all the best for the future.
Plenty, it's part and parcel of the game. Not defending it but it's reality. We're Aberdeen fans any different with Goodwin. Are Rangers fans any different with Clement. They ve dedicated all their lives to the game. They know what's coming once they lose fans.
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8 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:
McGhee's first season in 2007-2008 and McCalls in 2012-2013 probably the most entertaining in recent 20 years
Yep Id agree, that is what makes me unsure about SK , do we replace him with someone who serves up the same shite we've watched frequently over the years..
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6 minutes ago, wellfan said:
Their plan has clearly been to give him unfettered access to the chequebook.
He certainly cant accuse the club of not supporting him in the transfer market.
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5 minutes ago, wellfan said:
So it seems that the only point they would ever be due a full 12 months of salary would be if they were canned immediately following the renewal reset point. In that case, either bin them now and pay a few months compo or tell them they won’t be renewed at the end of May unless they do a better bloody job!
Its not an easy decision. Glad I don't have to make it. I feel utterly bored watching Motherwell but frankly that was the same under Graham Alexander , Stevie Hammel and now Stuart Kettlewell so would we be sacking him just to replace him with the same turgid stuff. Am I being unrealistic in what I watch, Im not sure because it feels like years since I enjoyed watching us other than a few standout games..
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4 minutes ago, wellfan said:
Agreed 31 August 2024:
https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/08/31/stuart-kettlewell-and-stephen-frail-sign-new-deals/
This article doesn’t say anything about 12 months, so I can only assume the rolling contract reset date is 31 August each year, which would mean they have 6 month left unless it automatically renews.
https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/02/22/stuart-kettlewell-remains-at-club-until-may-2025/
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5 minutes ago, wellfan said:
I’ve read this, but it doesn’t cover the technicalities I asked. Google AI states the following:
A rolling contract of employment for a football manager is a contract that continues until either party gives notice to end it. This type of contract is a type of fixed-term contract that automatically renews on a set date.
What is that set date? End of season? Or what? It can’t always just be 12 months from every date, or has that been stated somewhere?
In SK case it May 2025 which is normally at seasons end. So either side needs to give a notice period that they do not intend to continue (generally 3 months) otherwise the 12 months kicks in. I'd be amazed if there wasn't an element of compensation for a contract terminated in football but it certainly wouldn't be prohibitive.
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4 minutes ago, wellfan said:
Has anyone actually had it confirmed by the club that Kettlewell and Frail’s rolling contracts are 12 months (at all times) or season to season? The latter meaning they are only eligible for 4-5 more months of wages before the rolling period would reset for 2025/26.
https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/02/22/stuart-kettlewell-remains-at-club-until-may-2025/
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21 minutes ago, AllyMax said:
Thought so, so he doesn't have 5 months left on his contract, he has a year.
Not necessarily. That's not how many rolling contracts in the UK work. Many run for 12 months from a specific date and in their case that was May 2024. Both sides have an option to continue or to end but must give three months notice before the 12 months expire i.e May 2025. If no such undertaking is exercised the contract automatically rolls on for another 12 months and we would then be on the hook for 12 months salary..
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1 hour ago, wellon said:
I don't know if he's that good either, we would need to compare to a team with similar budget, injuries etc etc
We might finish 10th or worse, we might finish 4th , at the minute that's unlikely but I am prepared to give it till injuries clear up .
All this changing managers every 2 years does is cost us money.
Slight difference here is SK has 5 months left on his contract, hardly a crippling financial judgement to get rid of him for those that think that's what we should do.
"All this changing managers every 2 years does is cost us money" it does but that is the nature of the beast. Few managers last longer than 3 seasons. Either through moving to bigger and better or getting pumped for being pish.
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34 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:
Why Motherwell fans are turning against Stuart Kettlewell
By Craig Fowler ColumnistI'm going to tell you about a Scottish football manager.
This man has been in charge of his current club for almost two years. He has a 40 per cent winning percentage from 92 games despite not managing one of the bigger clubs in the division. He currently has his team in the top half despite their best player being a teenager with less than 50 career top-flight games. And in each of the last two seasons he has been forced into selling his top goalscorer, having significantly improved each of those players' form, making the club over £2 million in the process.
I am, of course, referring to Motherwell manager Stuart Kettlewell. A man who, for all the successes I laid out above, is not a popular figure with a sizeable chunk of the Fir Park faithful.
Tensions increased last week when Kettlewell took aim at his critics in a pre-match press conference ahead of his side's trip to St Johnstone in the Scottish Premiership. "I’ll not be influenced by any noise or opinions from people that have never done the job and never dedicated their life to this game," he said.
That line lacks context in isolation. Within the overall body of what he told reporters on Thursday, it appears more respectful and comes across as an honest assessment of what most managers think. Any coach who alters his team and tactics at the whim of supporter sentiment is not going to last in the job very long, as the team would soon become an incoherent mess with the gameplan ripped up on an almost weekly basis. However, Kettlewell has been in the game long enough to know that any direct shot at supporters is going to be isolated in the media and hungrily feasted on, which is what happened. Even by social media standards, Motherwell fans were outraged by the comment and it further strained a relationship which wasn't exactly harmonious beforehand.
Other than Stephen Robinson, Kettlewell is Motherwell's most successful manager in over a decade. He inherited a mess of a squad heading for relegation when Stevie Hammell was sacked and quickly turned things around; he's kept their head above water despite being in charge of some average-looking squads; he rebounds from losing his best players and, as I'll reiterate again, they're in the top half of the league. This is despite a perplexing injury list that has had a Motherwell-supporting colleague of mine often wondering whether they host training on an active minefield. This injury list now includes Lennon Miller, a generational talent and the team's fulcrum. So why are some of the supporters so unhappy?
It all goes back to an aspect of the game by which all managers are judged: the style of play.
It is correct that the most important thing in football is winning matches. If you win games above expectation then you are going to be safe and secure in your job. However, the manner in which a team goes about trying to win those games still matters very much. That's because a manager who wins matches by playing a brand of football which supporters aren't happy with isn't going to accumulate much credit in the bank. So as soon as things start to go sour there is no grace period, the knives are immediately out, and that's what has happened at Motherwell recently following a sequence of just one victory in their last nine games.
Motherwell are, statistically speaking, the most passive team in the league. No Scottish Premiership team presses the opposition with less intensity, which would be more forgivable in the eyes of fans if the team weren't also happy to concede possession to opponents. With just a 39.2 per cent share of the ball across this season so far, no side holds on to it for less time than Kettlewell's men. They also hold the third worst Expected Goals (xG) tally and second highest Expected Goals Against (xGA) mark, suggesting that the success of this season has been built on a foundation of sand.
Putting that to the side, even if every single point accrued to this point has been deserved, for supporters it's been done without much joy. Even the one victory in the past nine, the 2-0 win over Aberdeen (*sarcastic slow clap*), fans went away from the stadium grumbling after a disheartening second-half performance against ten men. In the end, victory will always pacify, but there are rarely ever positives to take when it doesn't happen, which is why supporters were so furious with the exit to St Johnstone in the Scottish Cup. Motherwell went out with a whimper to an opponent who'd previously managed just two draws in nine games and have now beaten them in successive weekends.
There are also questions with regards to squad building. Thirty-five players have been signed by Kettlewell but there aren't many undoubted success stories, and there are still gaps in the squad. The Fir Park corps is bursting with forward players but only Apostolos Stamatelopoulos is truly adept at holding the ball up and playing with his back to goal. Without him in recent games due to injury they've struggled to make it stick. Fans are also sick of seeing a three-at-the-back variation which gets played regardless of who is fit and in form. Ewan Wilson has made the breakthrough this season at left wing-back and impressed earlier in the campaign, but his form has struggled recently as he's been asked to carry too much in a system that only really functions at its best when the wing-backs are flying.
So long as the Steelmen remain in the top half of the table then Kettlewell will remain in a job, regardless of what fans think of him. But you can basically throw a duvet sheet over the Premiership table from Motherwell in fifth to Kilmarnock in 11th. If the league position starts to reflect recent results then there aren't going to be many defenders left among the support when it comes time for the board to discuss the manager's position.
A pretty good assessment. Basically you can play shite and fans will grudgingly accept it if there are wins. That disappears when results match the displays. SK has had the bonus of being allowed to run the biggest first team squad in a long time and most of those signing are questionable.
Thanks for the post from the Herald.
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53 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:
An article in the Herald this morning which is worth reading.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/24886398.motherwell-fans-turning-stuart-kettlewell/
The best media summing up I've come across was by Craggs on the BBC on Saturday. Basically our league position & semi final appearance are at odds with our stats, fan unrest and current bad run. This is because we got a bit lucky earlier but now teams have worked us out and we have been found out.
Behind a paywall so cant read it but will no doubt a Jambo, as the sports writer is, telling the folk who watch our utter shite week in week out we have no right to question SK.
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15 hours ago, Throughthelaces said:
I'd like to think that he gets the county game and if were me I'd be telling him anything less than a win against County and Dundee and he's out the door.
No we shouldn't , we may consider that option but I certainly wouldn't be telling him its two wins or hes out. The pressure on us is big enough without adding fuel to the Fire before the games . SK will know hes under scrutiny.
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2 minutes ago, santheman said:
Miller was ploughing a lone furrow most of the time with little or no support but at least he offered something in an otherwise poor midfield.
For the boys sake I hope he finds a good club in the window if that's what happens but from a purely selfish point of view I would like to se him stay and help to get us back on track.
Personally I don't think we've looked the same team since he was injured.
we may not look the same but we play the same and get the same results, hes wasted in our team.
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3 minutes ago, wellon said:
I don't think his interview was great but did I feel insulted, not at all...in general people look to be offended.
What did he say ? He knows a bit more about formations tactics than joe public and he has more experience..not really up for debate.
If it was directed at the fans at all...more likely to be pundits, he's got a point tbf, a lot of pundits have never tried the management gig .
I don't think it was his finest hour but it's not a sacking offence.
you are correct but for someone who has been in the game as long him he should know that the use of certain words / phrases particularly if there is an inference that its directed at the fans - even if that wasnt his intention - he has just created an unnecessary stick for fans to beat him with. Defo not a sacking offence, his style and tactics will ensure that.
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Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread
in Club Chat
Posted
He's gone now, we can argue til the cows come home the rights and wrongs, changes nothing now. Onwards and hopefully upwards and an end to the eye bleeding pish we've been watching.