2022/23 ins & outs discussion

[David]

7 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Fair do's pal.  Let's hope we get him to sign a new contract 

Yeah, I really hope we do. 

[Mad Dog]

Hopefully we'll also be telling Aberdeen to go fcuk themselves when they start making enquiries.

[El Grew]

Daily Rancid reporting that 3 English Championship clubs showing an interest - Preston, Sheffield Utd and Luton Town.

Utter bullshit. Somebody has a decent game and this shit-sheet picks 3 English clubs at random to make a story up.

The guy is just 19 and in the foothills of what looks like a highly promising career BUT I just hope he shows better sense and judgment than two of our previous “potential stars” Slane and Hastie.

[smiddy]

6 hours ago, David said:

He is playing. I just pointed out that he's started five of a possible eight games, and has played a role in every game since his return. I could understand the concern if we'd brought him back and he'd sat on the bench as an unused substitute, or had played ten minutes here or there for the majority of those games but that's not the case.

We've played four games in two weeks. He's started two of them. And in the two he was a substitute he came on after 27 minutes and 45 minutes. It's not about how well he's been playing, it's about game time management. It happens at lots of clubs, and especially with younger players where the impetus is in bringing them on but not burning them out. 

I guarantee that if he keeps performing as he is we'll see him start more and more games as the season goes on.

if he keeps on getting more game time and improving as we would expect,  theres a fair chance we will lose him in the summer     teams are sniffing !!!

[Kmcalpin]

I don't know if it was possible but we should have been looking to tie him up some months ago. 

[Richie]

As ever here, cant force the player to sign a contract.

Agent will likely be hawking him about.

[FirParkCornerExile]

13 hours ago, wellfan said:

His contract expires in May 2023 so the club should be doing everything possible to offer him an extension and encourage him to sign it. Early indications point to him becoming one of our best ever homegrown RB/RWB. 

Club can only do so much , if he has a storming finish to the season I don't suspect he will stay with us.

[Stuwell2]

13 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

Club can only do so much , if he has a storming finish to the season I don't suspect he will stay with us.

If that’s the case then hopefully he can help us avoid relegation before he goes and we get a decent sell on clause when he goes. 

[fizoxy]

Nothing to say that we haven't been trying to sign him to a longer contract. Nothing to say we have either, so anything we say is pure speculation.

He was playing regularly on loan before we brought him back, and he's been in the team more often that not since returning. His time on the bench could be just a case of managing his time, protecting him, or injury. 

Either way, we can't force him to sign a contract. Even if we went out of our budget with an offer, it still doesn't match what he would get in England.

[joewarkfanclub]

The boy has only just come back from a loan spell and has had a few good games. I dont doubt that he looks a talent and we need to look after our assets, but its not as simple as that once agents get involved. Remember the clamour to get Jake Hastie signed up and the bile that went in his direction and that of the club for allowing him to go to Rangers. Remind me.how that worked out?

[David]

I've seen the mention of agents being involved, which will obviously be the case, but it's worth remembering that the agents work for the player. Not the other way around.

More often than not the agent is portrayed as the bad guy (or girl) when a player moves, a role they're happy to accept as it protects their client, but make no mistake, no player goes anywhere against their will. It's the players call, and the players families call.

[Stuwell2]

With his dad being an ex professional and a manager himself, I’d imagine that he will be overseeing his boy’s career and will be heavily involved in any decision - maybe we could offer him a job as assistant to the new manager if he gets his boy to sign on again

edit: I’m sure he did not bad at Killie and only left after falling out with the board - feck it if he keeps the boy here make him manager  

[joewarkfanclub]

4 hours ago, David said:

I've seen the mention of agents being involved, which will obviously be the case, but it's worth remembering that the agents work for the player. Not the other way around.

More often than not the agent is portrayed as the bad guy (or girl) when a player moves, a role they're happy to accept as it protects their client, but make no mistake, no player goes anywhere against their will. It's the players call, and the players families call.

Thats all well and good. But without the agent the players wouldnt know what else was out there and would be more likely to play things safe with what they know. Im not criticising agents, its their job. Just stating the reality of the modern game.

[David]

14 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Thats all well and good. But without the agent the players wouldnt know what else was out there and would be more likely to play things safe with what they know. Im not criticising agents, its their job. Just stating the reality of the modern game.

Yeah, without agents players were regularly shafted by savvy club owners and overbearing managers, and many of them went on to retire without a penny to their name. 

A player should know what else is out there. They deserve to know the options they have, and then it's their call to decide if they wish to forego a raise in finances to perhaps secure more first team football, or if they want to take the money now in the knowledge that it's a short career.

I've said it elsewhere, but fans are terrific at moaning about good players who refuse a new deal in order to earn more elsewhere, but have absolutely zero qualms about seeing players who don't make the cut binned off and forgotten about. Basically, any player will do well to think of themselves and their families. The rest is just background noise.

[joewarkfanclub]

Post retracted.....

[David]

2 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Do you mean to be so confrontational all the time?

I never at any point said I like or dislike agents or that players shouldnt maximise their earning potential.

My point was soley intended to bring some realism to the debate as some of our fans seem to think getting a young player on a long term contract is a straightforward thing and that somehow because we havent done so, we have fucked up in some way.

No confrontation from me, I think I was perfectly pleasant. Maybe the way you read it? I could have said the same with your initial reply, but it's just words on a screen. No way of telling tone or whatever.

I'm just pointing out that contrary to what most fans think, the agents aren't the bad guys most of the time. Don't get me wrong, they're happy to be portrayed as such, but they're simply looking after the welfare of their client.

[joewarkfanclub]

40 minutes ago, David said:

No confrontation from me, I think I was perfectly pleasant. Maybe the way you read it? I could have said the same with your initial reply, but it's just words on a screen. No way of telling tone or whatever.

I'm just pointing out that contrary to what most fans think, the agents aren't the bad guys most of the time. Don't get me wrong, they're happy to be portrayed as such, but they're simply looking after the welfare of their client.

Fair doos.

Post retracted.

I blame the manopause.....

[weeyin]

2 hours ago, David said:

No confrontation from me, I think I was perfectly pleasant. Maybe the way you read it? I could have said the same with your initial reply, but it's just words on a screen. No way of telling tone or whatever.

I'm just pointing out that contrary to what most fans think, the agents aren't the bad guys most of the time. Don't get me wrong, they're happy to be portrayed as such, but they're simply looking after the welfare of their client.

They might not be bad guys, but they make a substantial portion of their money when players move, so it's certainly in their interest to keep their clients active. Then the discussion becomes are they acting in the best interests of their career or their short term finances.

If you were an agent that was going to make £10k from a player extending a contract at Motherwell or £30k from a signing on fee at Exeter City, then a lot of the time it's going to be cream teas all round (jam first, unless you're a serial killer).

 

[David]

4 minutes ago, weeyin said:

They might not be bad guys, but they make a substantial portion of their money when players move, so it's certainly in their interest to keep their clients active. Then the discussion becomes are they acting in the best interests of their career or their short term finances.

If you were an agent that was going to make £10k from a player extending a contract at Motherwell or £30k from a signing on fee at Exeter City, then a lot of the time it's going to be cream teas all round (jam first, unless you're a serial killer).

That's true in some cases, but you also find that often agents are very wary of appearing to put their interests first in the slightest, simply because if a player gets a whiff of that they dump the agent in question and move to someone else. Any player with a hint of a decent future will have other agents and agencies hovering around waiting for the slightest hint of a relationship breakdown so they can try to snap them up.

Also, players talk to each other. If there's an agent or agency that starts to get a reputation for looking after themselves first and trying to railroad players into deals they maybe aren't keen on it doesn't take long for the word to spread and said agent to start losing business. 

There is a general view among fans that players are these gullible, naive happy-go-lucky guys who are being taken advantage of by evil agents, but the truth more often than not is that the agent is a stressed out, exasperated individual who is trying to bend over backwards to accommodate a player who thinks he should be getting the kind of treatment and respect afforded to world class players.

Nah, the players end up doing exactly what they want to do. I'd wager that more often than not the player will force through his own ideas even if the agent is giving him solid advice to the contrary.

[joewarkfanclub]

2 hours ago, David said:

That's true in some cases, but you also find that often agents are very wary of appearing to put their interests first in the slightest, simply because if a player gets a whiff of that they dump the agent in question and move to someone else. Any player with a hint of a decent future will have other agents and agencies hovering around waiting for the slightest hint of a relationship breakdown so they can try to snap them up.

Also, players talk to each other. If there's an agent or agency that starts to get a reputation for looking after themselves first and trying to railroad players into deals they maybe aren't keen on it doesn't take long for the word to spread and said agent to start losing business. 

There is a general view among fans that players are these gullible, naive happy-go-lucky guys who are being taken advantage of by evil agents, but the truth more often than not is that the agent is a stressed out, exasperated individual who is trying to bend over backwards to accommodate a player who thinks he should be getting the kind of treatment and respect afforded to world class players.

Nah, the players end up doing exactly what they want to do. I'd wager that more often than not the player will force through his own ideas even if the agent is giving him solid advice to the contrary.

So what your saying is, Chris Cadden IS actually a dick? 😆

[Yassin]

31 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

So what your saying is, Chris Cadden IS actually a dick? 😆

And shite at crossing

[Stuwell2]

Tony Watt’s agent must have made a packet out of him. 

[brainier]

17 hours ago, weeyin said:

They might not be bad guys, but they make a substantial portion of their money when players move, so it's certainly in their interest to keep their clients active. Then the discussion becomes are they acting in the best interests of their career or their short term finances.

If you were an agent that was going to make £10k from a player extending a contract at Motherwell or £30k from a signing on fee at Exeter City, then a lot of the time it's going to be cream teas all round (jam first, unless you're a serial killer).

 

Exeter is in Devon so it's cream first. Don't want Max making enemies on his first day!

[Spiderpig]

On 2/16/2023 at 6:29 PM, El Grew said:

Daily Rancid reporting that 3 English Championship clubs showing an interest - Preston, Sheffield Utd and Luton Town.

Utter bullshit. Somebody has a decent game and this shit-sheet picks 3 English clubs at random to make a story up.

The guy is just 19 and in the foothills of what looks like a highly promising career BUT I just hope he shows better sense and judgment than two of our previous “potential stars” Slane and Hastie.

It's now English premiership clubs, Brighton are allegedly keeping track of him, it's in the Sun so probably a large pinch of salt required. 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/10253133/motherwell-max-johnston-english-premier-league-scouts/

[David]

Seems like a few of our up & coming youngsters are attracting attention as well as Johnston.

Lennon Miller and Jevan Beattie.