Motherwell v Livingston 20/08/2022

[Yorkyred]

You can’t have it both ways, it’s either accept var or stop moaning about ref decisions because the refs up here are not suddenly going to improve.

[grizzlyg]

Not seen it so can't comment but when you see a few of the ridiculous ones st Mirren got against us in past few years then we are due a break...sorry Livi fans

[stv]

42 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

So at Celtic Park today.

Celtic 11 fouls no yellows 

Hearts 12 fouls 7 yellow cards and 2 reds!

Roll on the VAR Hearts might have got game cancelled lol. 

 

 

 

 

Was Wullie  Collum refereeing two games in one weekend ?

 

[Ya Bezzer!]

12 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

You can’t have it both ways, it’s either accept var or stop moaning about ref decisions because the refs up here are not suddenly going to improve.

I don't actually agree with this line of thought.

No lover of Rangers but does ANYONE other than Willie Collum think Lundstrum should have got a red for that yesterday?  It's just obvious it's not a red.

I'd agree if you said you can't moan about marginal decisions but there are loads of decisions being made in Scottish football that anyone watching can see are wrong or inconsistant.

I think one of the things about VAR that's going to be interesting is if it changes referee behaviour because you absolutely get the impression right now that some of them, especially Willie Collum, are out their to be the centre of attention rather than actually referee properly.

Would Collum give that red with VAR watching?   If the answer is no then I think you have to say that certain referee's are abusing their position and that can't be allowed just because we don't have VAR in place.

[Spiderpig]

2 hours ago, steelboy said:

Loads of people sitting down in that corner said they saw it hit his arm. 

None of the TV angles were clear which is why we shouldn't be doing VAR. 

When VAR is implemented is there not a minimum number of cameras that need to be up and running so that as many different angles as possible are available. So in theory that should make decisions like the one yesterday a lot easier to determine either way.

VAR is far from perfect but given the number of dubious decisions we had this weekend  it has to be better than what we Currently have, ok we benefited yesterday but it's guaranteed we will at some point to be on the wrong side of a decision given the Current standard of refereeing we have in Scotland.

For me anything that helps the refs get it right and bring some consistency to decision making can only be a good thing.

[twistandshout1983]

9 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I don't actually agree with this line of thought.

No lover of Rangers but does ANYONE other than Willie Collum think Lundstrum should have got a red for that yesterday?  It's just obvious it's not a red.

I'd agree if you said you can't moan about marginal decisions but there are loads of decisions being made in Scottish football that anyone watching can see are wrong or inconsistant.

I think one of the things about VAR that's going to be interesting is if it changes referee behaviour because you absolutely get the impression right now that some of them, especially Willie Collum, are out their to be the centre of attention rather than actually referee properly.

Would Collum give that red with VAR watching?   If the answer is no then I think you have to say that certain referee's are abusing their position and that can't be allowed just because we don't have VAR in place.

Never a red card for me either for Lundstrum,  to level it up they got a penalty that never was and James Tavernier will go on to be the highest scorer in Rangers history with the amount of penalties they get

On a serious note great 3 points yesterday , performance was definitely not the best though there is much more of a feel good factor with Stevie in charge now 

[texanwellfan]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

With offside with VAR there is still a ref deciding which frame to freeze it on and where to draw the line so it's just more variables that will go in favour of the Old Firm. 

In the South Africa Vs Wales rugby test last month the ref yellow carded a Welsh player and was hammered by the commentators and media who were adamant he got it wrong based on replays. Two weeks later another angle was found from pitchside which vindicated the ref which just shows that you can't rely on TV pictures as they are 2D and depth is an illusion.

I don’t know the technical design of the VAR system but it’s not super hi tech to draw the lines correctly. I would hope the design would encompass data processing to ensure the lines are drawn correctly.  Having said that, they should put a very short time limit on reviewing offside decisions with the lines.  Quick look and if it’s not obvious, the officials’ call stands. The time consuming microscopic analysis is what wastes it. 

[Happy Dosser]

56 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I don't actually agree with this line of thought.

No lover of Rangers but does ANYONE other than Willie Collum think Lundstrum should have got a red for that yesterday?  It's just obvious it's not a red.

I'd agree if you said you can't moan about marginal decisions but there are loads of decisions being made in Scottish football that anyone watching can see are wrong or inconsistant.

I think one of the things about VAR that's going to be interesting is if it changes referee behaviour because you absolutely get the impression right now that some of them, especially Willie Collum, are out their to be the centre of attention rather than actually referee properly.

Would Collum give that red with VAR watching?   If the answer is no then I think you have to say that certain referee's are abusing their position and that can't be allowed just because we don't have VAR in place.

I'm the last man to defend The Hens but  Lundstrum's foul was the same as the the Hibs' yellow: a cynical trip to prevent a counter-attack.

Collum is the original fan-dancing, egotistical referee. Look at me! Look at me!

Having said that our "penalty" was embarrassing. We'll be in danger of becoming the St Mirren of All Penalties if this carries on .

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I don't actually agree with this line of thought.

No lover of Rangers but does ANYONE other than Willie Collum think Lundstrum should have got a red for that yesterday?  It's just obvious it's not a red.

I'd agree if you said you can't moan about marginal decisions but there are loads of decisions being made in Scottish football that anyone watching can see are wrong or inconsistant.

I think one of the things about VAR that's going to be interesting is if it changes referee behaviour because you absolutely get the impression right now that some of them, especially Willie Collum, are out their to be the centre of attention rather than actually referee properly.

Would Collum give that red with VAR watching?   If the answer is no then I think you have to say that certain referee's are abusing their position and that can't be allowed just because we don't have VAR in place.

Ref gave a straight red in the Newcastle v Man City game this afternoon to Kieran Trippier VAR had a look, ref was asked to review and he changed the red to a yellow thats how it should work.

[fizoxy]

If that was collum, he would have taken a look and then sent someone else off with him. His brain is working overtime right now to find ways of making the introduction of var as much about him as possible.

[GazzyB]

I thought Lundstram’s was a red. That type of foul that stops a breakaway is of course usually a yellow, but when he is miles away from the ball, has absolutely no intention of playing for the ball, and it’s knee height, that’s a red for me.

 

I haven’t seen the Celtic game today but I’ve read online that none of the Celtic fouls merited a booking. I really don’t think refs are biased, just extremely incompetent. VAR will for sure help with that in this country. 

[weeyin]

On a slightly different note, I'd love to see the punishment for stopping a breakaway with a cynical foul changed to be an automatic red.

 

[Kmcalpin]

3 minutes ago, weeyin said:

On a slightly different note, I'd love to see the punishment for stopping a breakaway with a cynical foul changed to be an automatic red.

Yes, as long as it was a cynical foul and not a Louis Laing accidental stumble.

[numpty]

2 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

I don’t know the technical design of the VAR system but it’s not super hi tech to draw the lines correctly.

It actually is fairly complicated, given they have to take into account any slope on the pitch etc.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1488423

The SPFL system requires at least six manned cameras at each ground, fwiw.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/12593541/var-scottish-premiership-to-introduce-video-technology-after-crucial-vote

[Yorkyred]

54 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

I thought Lundstram’s was a red. That type of foul that stops a breakaway is of course usually a yellow, but when he is miles away from the ball, has absolutely no intention of playing for the ball, and it’s knee height, that’s a red for me.

 

I haven’t seen the Celtic game today but I’ve read online that none of the Celtic fouls merited a booking. I really don’t think refs are biased, just extremely incompetent. VAR will for sure help with that in this country. 

It’s not a popular view to have up here but I’m of the same opinion.

[dennyc]

29 minutes ago, weeyin said:

On a slightly different note, I'd love to see the punishment for stopping a breakaway with a cynical foul changed to be an automatic red.

 

Cannot remember the game...think it was away from home last season or season before. Did we not get a player sent off for a a jersey pull on half way to stop a break away? Can remember the argument that it was so far from goal  so extremely harsh. And maybe same happened to Aberdeen (Devlin) last season? Thoughts were both fouls were regarded as stopping a goal scoring opportunity which I agree Lundstrum foul was not.

For me that Rangers tackle was worse in that there was more danger of causing injury and if the rules say that is a yellow but a jersey tug on half way is a straight red, then the powers that be need to get a grip.

And sorry, but our penalty yesterday was a joke. Clearly nowhere near a hand ball. Neither referee or Assistant had a clear view  and guessed at the ball hitting an arm based on the reaction from several of our players, Goss in particular. If that had been given against us, this forum would be in meltdown......and rightly so.

VAR will change nothing if current Scottish referees are doing the reviews on their "off days". After all it is their colleague out there and roles are likely to be reversed the following week. "Don't embarrass me and I wont embarrass you". And how on earth would Collum's ego allow him to be wrong? I'm all for VAR helping to arrive at the correct outcome, but to do that we need the video review folk to have as little conflict of interest as possible. So retired, non Scottish referees?

[pretzel]

1 hour ago, GazzyB said:

I thought Lundstram’s was a red. That type of foul that stops a breakaway is of course usually a yellow, but when he is miles away from the ball, has absolutely no intention of playing for the ball, and it’s knee height, that’s a red for me.

Obviously it's going back a bit now and rules have changed etc.  But I remember at the 1998 World Cup a new rule was introduced in that any sliding tackle that hits your opponent from behind was a straight red, I always had the impression that had stayed. For me, as much as it pains me to say it but I feel Collum was hundred percent correct, the Rangers guy recklessly launched into the back of an opponent. I see the wee neddy Hibs defender was the first on the scene again telling Willie it's a red.

As for the 11 Celtic fouls today with no yellows, perhaps worth a mention that Jota against Aberdeen last season had nine fouls commited with no yellow or even our own O'Donnell against Rangers last year where his two fouls merited a yellow each in Nick Walsh's eyes only for Balogen to be let off countless times for the same fouls.

VAR is going to be a laugh up here.

Anyway it was nice to get one of those clear cut dodgy decisions in our favour against Livi. 

[El Grew]

1 hour ago, GazzyB said:

I thought Lundstram’s was a red. That type of foul that stops a breakaway is of course usually a yellow, but when he is miles away from the ball, has absolutely no intention of playing for the ball, and it’s knee height, that’s a red for me.

Totally agree Gazzy. I watched the highlights of the games on Sportscene last night and Lundstram’s foul was referred to as “tactical foul”.   That’s certainly a new slant as a few years back it used to be called a professional foul and there were calls to stamp it out by sending players off who resorted to it.

As for our penalty against Livi it wasn’t. Neither the referee or his linesman on the Hunter Stand side had sight of it and were indulging in guesswork. I I was a corner kick at best.  But hey ho we take it with thanks and move on as we’ve had enough that went against us in the past.

[gaz7]

51 minutes ago, El Grew said:

Totally agree Gazzy. I watched the highlights of the games on Sportscene last night and Lundstram’s foul was referred to as “tactical foul”.   That’s certainly a new slant as a few years back it used to be called a professional foul and there were calls to stamp it out by sending players off who resorted to it.

I fully agree with this. It winds me up that the pundits and ex pros always give it the "good foul to give away" patter when they stop a breakaway but they then say if a player "dives" in the box it is not something you want to see etc etc.

Both scenarios are professional players doing all they can to win game but both should be treated the same . The hypocrisy in football is unbelievable. 

 

[Coatsy]

If that had been a Motherwell player we would have been up in arms, so its a yellow all day long, if you compare that to the 2 Ross County incidents then they should have been Red  definatly but only merited a yellow in the ref's eyes. Its all about consistency and without it players don't know where they stand all referees should be working to the same interpretation

 

[texanwellfan]

3 hours ago, numpty said:

It actually is fairly complicated, given they have to take into account any slope on the pitch etc.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1488423

The SPFL system requires at least six manned cameras at each ground, fwiw.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/12593541/var-scottish-premiership-to-introduce-video-technology-after-crucial-vote

I suppose it depends on your view of complicated. 

[numpty]

8 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

I suppose it depends on your view of complicated. 

Well, I write software for a living, and I'd find it quite complicated. But admittedly I'm not all that good  

[Winning by Name]

11 hours ago, El Grew said:

Totally agree Gazzy. I watched the highlights of the games on Sportscene last night and Lundstram’s foul was referred to as “tactical foul”.   That’s certainly a new slant as a few years back it used to be called a professional foul and there were calls to stamp it out by sending players off who resorted to it.

As for our penalty against Livi it wasn’t. Neither the referee or his linesman on the Hunter Stand side had sight of it and were indulging in guesswork. I I was a corner kick at best.  But hey ho we take it with thanks and move on as we’ve had enough that went against us in the past.

What about the handball 10 or so minutes later which I thought was a penalty. Incidentally I thought the penalty was a penalty too.

[Kmcalpin]

2 hours ago, Winning by Name said:

Incidentally I thought the penalty was a penalty too.

On balance I didn't think it was a penalty but none of the camera angles were particularly good and I wouldn't rule out the ref being right.  The best camera angle would have been near the corner flag. 

[grizzlyg]

On 8/20/2022 at 11:43 PM, stv said:

But maybe his jokes will get better

Having just seen the joke that won the award at Edinburgh fringe there is hope for me yet, must have been a poor standard if that was the winner!! Lol