El Grew Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 Found this on Twitter: “Jim McMahon and Alan Burrows went on to advise and discuss that this year's £1m loss would be higher next year barring a long Cup run or player sale and that we are at a crossroads as regards plugging this size of shortfall in the coming years. The plan to resolve this is by going to a wider audience to promote our club values ethics and ideology in the hope of attracting a company or individual either local or worldwide who buys into our ethos and would be willing to inject regular cash to cover shortfalls” Mmm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 Lifted from here: http://www.motherwell-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/motherwell_at_crossroads__agm_117_970147/index.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 And this is why relegation will likely end us as a worthwhile going concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 7 hours ago, El Grew said: Found this on Twitter: “Jim McMahon and Alan Burrows went on to advise and discuss that this year's £1m loss would be higher next year barring a long Cup run or player sale and that we are at a crossroads as regards plugging this size of shortfall in the coming years. The plan to resolve this is by going to a wider audience to promote our club values ethics and ideology in the hope of attracting a company or individual either local or worldwide who buys into our ethos and would be willing to inject regular cash to cover shortfalls” Mmm! Looking for a rich millionaire or company with money to spare to come in and fund the club, does that imply that the Well society and the fan ownership initiative might not be as successful as the club had hoped. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 11 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: Looking for a rich millionaire or company with money to spare to come in and fund the club, does that imply that the Well society and the fan ownership initiative might not be as successful as the club had hoped. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 I just don't think that we have a large enough fanbase unfortunately. The likes of Hearts could make it work much more easily than ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 tbf that could apply to most teams in the League not backed by a large suppport and/or a private benefactor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: I just don't think that we have a large enough fanbase unfortunately. The likes of Hearts could make it work much more easily than ourselves. Agree with that, it was one of the main concerns I had when the when the well society was being set up. We now have limited fan ownership and an input to the club which is great, but there is obviously not enough money coming in from that source to assist the club as they wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintymac Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 Feels a bit like a watershed moment as far as AGM ‘s go. It does appear that the current model can’t balance the books moving forward . However if I remember correctly there wasn’t many options available that would have been good for the club at the time of the Well Society inception and thinking back was the only viable option at that time however I stand to be corrected if that’s not the case . Im a fully paid up member of the well society and season ticket holder and joined the society almost right away . That said I always had a nagging feeling that it was always going to be difficult to sustain over a long period and was heavily dependent on players sales cup runs etc and that the fan base we have wasn’t large enough . I remember it being passed around that we budget for 10th place and no cup runs and at least one player sale in order for us to break even which I always thought was a sensible approach . Not having been at the AGM is the board now saying that model is outdated and is now causing shortfalls going forward . If so then that is a worrying position and hence the reason we are at a watershed moment for the club . I would like to think this is a priority for the board to close that shortfall by whatever means they see appropriate without putting the clubs future in jeopardy. Also we need to look far and wide as I’m sure there must be someone out there who reads our story and ethos and would like to put there name to it . But that person must be the RIGHT person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 It's probably worth remembering that the club didn't decide to knock back various offers from multi-millionaires wanting to finance the club so we could be fan-owned instead. There wasn't really many other options. The truth is, we're a club with a relatively small fanbase. I think only St Johnstone, Ross County and Livingston see less fans on average than we do in the Premiership, and even then it's only a difference of around 1,000-1,700 fans. Failing a generous rich person or group who are happy to throw money away during a financial downturn, we simply have to be prepared to cut our cloth accordingly. And if that means we slash our wage bill, and end up playing Championship football, that's just how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Balls of Shire Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 I can't remember the exact details but was it not the case that St mirren had a large loss also, Dundee utd too , although not fan owned Maybe I am clutching at straws for some perspective to this but the fan ownership model maybe doesn't cut it a spfl level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 49 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: I just don't think that we have a large enough fanbase unfortunately. The likes of Hearts could make it work much more easily than ourselves. No doubting the financial pull of their larger fanbase, it’s the same Hearts who have willing philanthropists within their fan foundation. Some painting a darker picture than it should be. Club recognise mindset requires changing as the footballing landscape in which we operate has changed massively in recent times with Brexit a contributory factor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 4 hours ago, wellfan said: And this is why relegation will likely end us as a worthwhile going concern. I think there is a very real possibility that we will end up going part time if/when we are relegated, especially more so if we have a sustained period in the lower leagues. We have been a top flight club for almost 40 years, qualified for Europe several times, finished 2nd and 3rd on more than one occasion, won the Scottish Cup and reached four finals in that time. But all we ever hear from the club is that we are on the bones of our backsides, so if we are relegated then it is inevitable imo that our cloth will be cut even more accordingly. The idea of the Well Society is a brilliant one, but as has been said we don’t really have the size of support to sustain it and in these current tough financial times it’s even harder. The club certainly is at a crossroads and perhaps this is why Alan Burrows has decided it is now time for him to move on. Whatever happens the next few years are going to be very difficult for us as a club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 44 minutes ago, David said: The truth is, we're a club with a relatively small fanbase. I think only St Johnstone, Ross County and Livingston see less fans on average than we do in the Premiership, and even then it's only a difference of around 1,000-1,700 fans. Failing a generous rich person or group who are happy to throw money away during a financial downturn, we simply have to be prepared to cut our cloth accordingly. And if that means we slash our wage bill, and end up playing Championship football, that's just how it goes. A tad negative David. You quote St Johnstone, Ross Country and Livingston as having only slightly lower averages than we do, but don't say that Kilmarnock and St Mirren have only slightly higher averages than we do. In the latter's case, it maybe because they're on a relatviely good run this season. In truth the're's not much difference between the averages of half of the Premiership clubs, although their financial models may be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 27 minutes ago, MJC said: I think there is a very real possibility that we will end up going part time if/when we are relegated, especially more so if we have a sustained period in the lower leagues. We have been a top flight club for almost 40 years, qualified for Europe several times, finished 2nd and 3rd on more than one occasion, won the Scottish Cup and reached four finals in that time. But all we ever hear from the club is that we are on the bones of our backsides, so if we are relegated then it is inevitable imo that our cloth will be cut even more accordingly. The idea of the Well Society is a brilliant one, but as has been said we don’t really have the size of support to sustain it and in these current tough financial times it’s even harder. The club certainly is at a crossroads and perhaps this is why Alan Burrows has decided it is now time for him to move on. Whatever happens the next few years are going to be very difficult for us as a club. Thats a very dark picture to paint. IF we get relegated and went part time it would mean clubs like Hamilton, Raith Rovers and Inverness could sustain a core of full time players whereas we couldn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 7 minutes ago, MJC said: The idea of the Well Society is a brilliant one, but as has been said we don’t really have the size of support to sustain it and in these current tough financial times it’s even harder. If it meant our survival and increased role of the WS, I would be willing to increase my WS direct debit, but on the proviso that the Club presented a new and more realistic vision for its future. I'm not quite sure what that vision would be, however. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yosemite sam Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 You then wonder why we spent as much money to refurbish the east stand and the pitch, if money was as tight as they are alluding too. As far as being able to sell players, I can only think of one that might be worth something at the moment. Liam Kelly. Other than that, if you put all the midfield players together as job lot, you might raise £50,000, or is that being optimistic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 43 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: A tad negative David. You quote St Johnstone, Ross Country and Livingston as having only slightly lower averages than we do, but don't say that Kilmarnock and St Mirren have only slightly higher averages than we do. In the latter's case, it maybe because they're on a relatviely good run this season. In truth the're's not much difference between the averages of half of the Premiership clubs, although their financial models may be different. Yes, and all of those clubs have bounced between the Premier league and the Championship in recent times. Which is exactly the level we're at, if we're honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 Non of this is a surprise and, while not ideal, it's nowhere near as perilous as some are making out. We're a selling club, so you have to imagine that player sales will make up for the shortfall most seasons, as well as a half decent run in the cups. What does a normal home game earn us? How much of a "cup run" moves the needle financially? As for the ground. If we've taken our maintenance costs from 120k per season down to 20k ish, then it was totally the right decision. We can also hold home friendlies and internationals again now that the pitch is more reliable. I'd rather be in our position where we don't need to pray that Mr Moneybags doesn't change his mind or get bored. Mind John Boyle? Hopefully we actually get our finger out with the work to secure other income sources though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 15 minutes ago, yosemite sam said: You then wonder why we spent as much money to refurbish the east stand and the pitch, if money was as tight as they are alluding too. As far as being able to sell players, I can only think of one that might be worth something at the moment. Liam Kelly. Other than that, if you put all the midfield players together as job lot, you might raise £50,000, or is that being optimistic? Given we brought in Aston Oxborough on a 2-year deal in Summer 2022 and let Scott Fox leave recently, I would guess we're hoping to sell Liam Kelly soon (contracted to May 2024) and allow Aston to take over as number 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 25 minutes ago, yosemite sam said: You then wonder why we spent as much money to refurbish the east stand and the pitch, if money was as tight as they are alluding too. As far as being able to sell players, I can only think of one that might be worth something at the moment. Liam Kelly. Other than that, if you put all the midfield players together as job lot, you might raise £50,000, or is that being optimistic? I don't know if we'll get a fee for Liam Kelly to be honest, given the market for goalies. We might however get a fee a for Max Johnston, especially if he extends his deal. Other than that, KVV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 15 minutes ago, David said: Yes, and all of those clubs have bounced between the Premier league and the Championship in recent times. Which is exactly the level we're at, if we're honest. Depends how you define recent......................St Johnstone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 27 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Depends how you define recent......................St Johnstone? Okay, so that's one of those sides then who last went down 14 years ago. What about the others? My point is, we're a club with a small fanbase. It's not unthinkable that we could end up being relegated. Bigger clubs than us have went down in the past twenty years, so it could happen. And if it does, we just need to readjust our financial planning to suit. Unless, of course, there's a multi-millionaire out there who's willing to chuck some money at us and not see any real return? If that's the the case then happy days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spit_It_Out Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, wellfan said: Given we brought in Aston Oxborough on a 2-year deal in Summer 2022 and let Scott Fox leave recently, I would guess we're hoping to sell Liam Kelly soon (contracted to May 2024) and allow Aston to take over as number 1. I wouldn't be shocked if a team comes in with an offer this window after the accounts came out.If a decent enough figure comes the club might cash in. Tbh Kelly's form this season has been pretty poor for me and aslong as we don't replace with someone as bad as Aaron Chapman then it be grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 4 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: Thats a very dark picture to paint. IF we get relegated and went part time it would mean clubs like Hamilton, Raith Rovers and Inverness could sustain a core of full time players whereas we couldn't? Well given that we are frequently told that clubs in the Championship are able to pay more wages than we do then you would have to think so yes. If and when we are relegated then I’m afraid it will be a pretty dark picture for us as a club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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