Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[Spiderpig]

2 hours ago, wellfan said:

Whilst recognising the apparent positive attributes noted in the comments above, we’ve gone for the budget option in Kettlewell so we need to accept having a poor tactician and decision-maker at the helm for now. Will he learn and improve? I don't know. 

We know you dont like / rate him but you mention SK as "the budget option" implying we could have afforded better, who did you have in mind ?

[smiddy]

4 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

We know you dont like / rate him but you mention SK as "the budget option" implying we could have afforded better, who did you have in mind ?

neil warnocks a good shout  :):):)

[bobbybingo]

Outwith the Glasgow pair, is there any manager in the Premier League folk would like to have at Fir Park?

[Stuwell2]

3 hours ago, bobbybingo said:

Outwith the Glasgow pair, is there any manager in the Premier League folk would like to have at Fir Park?

Well if the country is overtaken by a totalitarian regime and public executions at football grounds become the thing………..

[bobbybingo]

54 minutes ago, Stuwell2 said:

Well if the country is overtaken by a totalitarian regime and public executions at football grounds become the thing………..

I'm knackered, you'll need to explain that to me.

[smiddy]

4 hours ago, bobbybingo said:

Outwith the Glasgow pair, is there any manager in the Premier League folk would like to have at Fir Park?

mcinnes,    but i also seen billy davies in the crowd at dens park last week ,  his nottingham forrest gardening leave must be finished

[bobbybingo]

Just now, smiddy said:

mcinnes,    but i also seen billy davies in the crowd at dens park last week ,  his nottingham forrest gardening leave must be finished

We might make it to more cup finals with McInnes. He's helped us into 2 already.

[AllyMax]

31 minutes ago, smiddy said:

mcinnes,    but i also seen billy davies in the crowd at dens park last week ,  his nottingham forrest gardening leave must be finished

You putting that forward as a serious managerial suggestion ????

[wellfan]

16 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

We know you dont like / rate him but you mention SK as "the budget option" implying we could have afforded better, who did you have in mind ?

It's not difficult to imagine that Kettlewell (and Hammell) was a budget option as he was promoted from within. It's also not my job to scout potential managers or forecast staffing budgets; that's the job of a CEO. Oh, wait...

[David]

16 hours ago, smiddy said:

i also seen billy davies in the crowd at dens park last week ,  his nottingham forrest gardening leave must be finished

It'll be ten years next week.

[dennyc]

6 hours ago, wellfan said:

It's not difficult to imagine that Kettlewell (and Hammell) was a budget option as he was promoted from within. It's also not my job to scout potential managers or forecast staffing budgets; that's the job of a CEO. Oh, wait...

I don't think anyone would disagree that promoting from within was a cheaper option. But whether that option was taken was for good footballing reasons or through financial necessity we might never know.

As for "it's not my job", that is just a cop out. This is a fan forum which opens up debate based on fan comment. You have plenty of views on a range of things so why not who we might have appointed instead of Kettlewell.

 

[wellfan]

2 hours ago, dennyc said:

You have plenty of views on a range of things so why not who we might have appointed instead of Kettlewell.

Cop out?! Come on. My view is that we should've learned the lesson during the Hammell debacle that promoting from within may be the cheap option in the short term but is likely to be more costly in the long term in terms of poor performances and the lost revenue that can lead to, and the potential gardening leave when it goes wrong.

I can hold that view without having to name an alternative manager. My alternative was to not promote from within, again, as that was a gamble that had already backfired, and now we have a manager who appears tactically naive and limited in his decision-making. 

And yes, a known quantity of a manager may also backfire, but they may have also taken us on some cup runs, or into the top six already, or taken us on a run of form opposite to the one we witnessed earlier this season. 

Some ambition would be good. That's an alternative. 

[wellsince75]

Personal view is he's the best manager we've had since McCall, which makes him the best in the last 10 years. 

Rate him above Barralough, McGhee, Robinson, Alexander and Hammell.  

Given we've reduced the spending, squad size and he's lost less than 1/3 of games, has a decent enough win record , has us 8th in the league. Plus seems to be a normal guy who cares, speaks well I'd put him close to McCall -who for the majority of time was excellent. 

He's made plenty of mistakes but appears to learn and move players on quickly.  

Add to that expect him to improve as he learns and grows. 

I'm really happy to have him. 

[texanwellfan]

I’m happy to see him here for the next season and longer. 

[dennyc]

28 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Cop out?! Come on. My view is that we should've learned the lesson during the Hammell debacle that promoting from within may be the cheap option in the short term but is likely to be more costly in the long term in terms of poor performances and the lost revenue that can lead to, and the potential gardening leave when it goes wrong.

I can hold that view without having to name an alternative manager. My alternative was to not promote from within, again, as that was a gamble that had already backfired, and now we have a manager who appears tactically naive and limited in his decision-making. 

And yes, a known quantity of a manager may also backfire, but they may have also taken us on some cup runs, or into the top six already, or taken us on a run of form opposite to the one we witnessed earlier this season. 

Some ambition would be good. That's an alternative. 

So not any suggestion then that folk could debate?  Very easy to pick holes in the Club's choice but unwilling to risk your own credibility by coming up with an alternative. Fair enough. 

[grizzlyg]

28 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

Personal view is he's the best manager we've had since McCall, which makes him the best in the last 10 years. 

Rate him above Barralough, McGhee, Robinson, Alexander and Hammell.  

Given we've reduced the spending, squad size and he's lost less than 1/3 of games, has a decent enough win record , has us 8th in the league. Plus seems to be a normal guy who cares, speaks well I'd put him close to McCall -who for the majority of time was excellent. 

He's made plenty of mistakes but appears to learn and move players on quickly.  

Add to that expect him to improve as he learns and grows. 

I'm really happy to have him. 

Agree with almost everything, wouldn't put him ahead of Robbo as yet.   SK learning all the time and obviously making mistakes...... Saturday starting line up one of them.  But January recruitment looking not bad at all with Vale.... Devine..... Halliday and Nicolson all contributing.    Fact we were disappointed in Saturday as top 6 chances almost gone shows we have improved since end of last year when it did look bleak ....COYW

[grizzlyg]

4 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

We were in free fall when Robbo left. He left for a reason. He did the right thing going. 

I should have said the early days of Robbo and the 2 cup finals.  Agree he definitely left at the right time 

[smiddy]

20 hours ago, AllyMax said:

You putting that forward as a serious managerial suggestion ????

and what do you think ?????????????

[smiddy]

4 hours ago, David said:

It'll be ten years next week.

and he basically only put his wee heed above the parapit 6 months ago to say he would help the RANJURS out if he was needed :):):):)   wee fud

[AllyMax]

19 minutes ago, smiddy said:

and what do you think ?????????????

Other people suggested it earlier in this thread, so you never know. Along with others such as Duncan Ferguson (and the usual 'he'd sort them oot' crap you get about people like him and Lennon)

[wellfan]

2 hours ago, dennyc said:

So not any suggestion then that folk could debate?  Very easy to pick holes in the Club's choice but unwilling to risk your own credibility by coming up with an alternative. Fair enough. 

It has nothing to do with risking my credibility; I just can't be arsed playing chess with a pigeon on this point. People can and should present their views on a current manager without having to have an alternative suggestion immediately lined up purely to satisfy an inevitable continuing line of questioning. That type of questioning is not debating; it's a deliberately quarrelsome approach to try to disparage the views of others. It suggests that someone's view on a topic is invalid because they don't present the solution alongside their critique.

Anyway, I've already contributed to this debate by offering my view that he was the wrong man at the wrong time and for the reasons outlined. However, if others want to suggest potential candidates, thus giving you what you require or else you suggest their views are untrustworthy, they can crack on and present their shortlists.

[David]

4 hours ago, wellfan said:

My view is that we should've learned the lesson during the Hammell debacle that promoting from within may be the cheap option in the short term but is likely to be more costly in the long term in terms of poor performances and the lost revenue that can lead to, and the potential gardening leave when it goes wrong.

Is it really "promoting from within" when the guy had been at the club for four months? Would you have felt better about the appointment of Kettlewell had he been appointed as manager but hadn't taken the lead development coach position a few months earlier?

Also, is it really the cheap option? I don't see how that would be the case. 

[joewarkfanclub]

33 minutes ago, wellfan said:

It has nothing to do with risking my credibility; I just can't be arsed playing chess with a pigeon on this point. People can and should present their views on a current manager without having to have an alternative suggestion immediately lined up purely to satisfy an inevitable continuing line of questioning. That type of questioning is not debating; it's a deliberately quarrelsome approach to try to disparage the views of others. It suggests that someone's view on a topic is invalid because they don't present the solution alongside their critique.

Anyway, I've already contributed to this debate by offering my view that he was the wrong man at the wrong time and for the reasons outlined. However, if others want to suggest potential candidates, thus giving you what you require or else you suggest their views are untrustworthy, they can crack on and present their shortlists.

You are of course entitled to criticise SK and have done extensively.

And of course you dont have to identify who you thing would do a better job than him.

But by not doing so you leave a void and the credible argument presented previously, which is, there may not be anyone better on the money we are willing or able to pay.

The list of candidates on the last 2 occasions was less than inspiring which is why Hammell and then Kettlewell got the job.

Lets face it, with the budget we are running, its just not attractive to anyone with any pedigree.

Which is why we get rookies & journeymen.......

[wellfan]

9 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

You are of course entitled to criticise SK and have done extensively.

And of course you dont have to identify who you thing would do a better job than him.

But by not doing so you leave a void and the credible argument presented previously, which is, there may not be anyone better on the money we are willing or able to pay.

The list of candidates on the last 2 occasions was less than inspiring which is why Hammell and then Kettlewell got the job.

Lets face it, with the budget we are running, its just not attractive to anyone with any pedigree.

Which is why we get rookies & journeymen.......

Then we’ll continue to get rookies and journeymen and suffer the mediocrity/failure that brings unless we show some ambition as I suggested above. However, if the club is content to scrape 10th place most seasons, fail to go on domestic cup runs, and tolerate shocking runs of form with the odd random victory, then the conveyor belt of rookies and journeymen is there for them to continually pick from. That's probably not going to keep the masses on side for long though. 

[wellfan]

9 hours ago, David said:

Is it really "promoting from within" when the guy had been at the club for four months? Would you have felt better about the appointment of Kettlewell had he been appointed as manager but hadn't taken the lead development coach position a few months earlier?

Also, is it really the cheap option? I don't see how that would be the case. 

He was promoted from within as he currently held a lesser post at the club.

I still wouldn't have been pleased with his appointment if hadn't held the lead development coach position, as his managerial record at Ross County wasn't great. 

Maybe he wasn't the cheap option, and maybe he was, but he was likely the easy option given he was deemed a promotable current employee. It's generally cheaper/easier to recruit from within than undertake an external recruitment exercise. 

A club generally has to speculate to accumulate, yet it appears to me that the club is scrimping and expecting to accumulate. The scrimping approach may come good next season, but I just don't see anything other than more of the same for as long as we maintain the current regime.