Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I dare say you had people in mind with your " sanctimonious pricks" comment...you were out of line , calling any fellow fans that .

Strikes me you will try and justify it till the cows come home , so I'll leave you to it.

That's me told. I must remember that I cannot conceive of any other fan of Motherwell to be anything other than a saint, and purely because they support the same team as me. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

9 minutes ago, wellfan said:

That's me told. I must remember that I cannot conceive of any other fan of Motherwell to be anything other than a saint, and purely because they support the same team as me. 

Like I said crack on justifying it. I'll leave you to it .

[StAndrew7]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

With the re-structuring off the field and the potential for additional investment off it, or at least a re-invigorated Well Society and CEO, Im actually quite excited to see how it all plays out next season.

Absolutely this.

Someone over on P&B called this "the most interim season ever"; I think that sums things up really well. The fact we've been safe since effectively just before the split, have unearthed a gem in Bair and are looking at a real prospect in Miller, means it's definitely erring more on being a success, despite the turgid mid-season period.

There's been a lot of resetting done both on and off the pitch and Kettlewell should take at least some credit for getting rid of players who just weren't good enough; a significant number of them youngsters who our previous manager when he was Head of Youth Development... didn't develop.

Granted, he signed Wilkinson and punted him within 6 months, but him not fancying it up here isn't SK's fault. Obika should never have been given another deal based on his injury history, either.

We now have a new (and experienced/accomplished) CEO, prospective new investment from someone who at least appears to "get" the club and the fan ownership model and a reinvigorated Well Society.

One thing I will say on the WS front; in the next month(s) I'm hoping to see more from there outside social media posts of brainstorming sessions (although as I've said before; I'm not a member so don't receive any e-mails from them, so there may have been other communications sent I'm not aware of). I realise there's been a lot going on with the investment discussions etc. that will no doubt have taken up a bit of time, but there will come a point when I need to start to see something more substantial to believe the reinvigorated messages we've seen thus far to make me commit to taking up membership.

Edit: apologies, that strayed quite a bit off topic! 😬

[Fergie79]

Last pre season was a huge learning curve for what transfer targets he can realistically aim and plan for....I am sure he is lucky if he got any of his first or second choice targets last season and was basically scrambling at the end to see who would actually come here hence we end up with last minute signings like Shaw.

 

I expect this pre season SK will be much better prepared and will have been planning accordingly for the last few months and had the chance to sound out potential targets that he wouldn't have been able to do last season. This pre season we can find out how good he really is...or how bad...

 

A huge pre season ahead but SK more than deserves to be here to do it and fingers crossed it works out as every signing at our level is a gamble.

 

For me there is not much to dislike about SK's performance in his first full season other than the poor run and poor goals against, he sorts out the defence and replaces Spittal and potentially Bair well then he is the right person to take us into next season and top 6 certainly achievable. He has never lost the dressing room and we still play decent attacking football given the number of goals we have scored.

 

Off the pitch seeing what happens with investors is going to only be a bonus if extra money and public exposure comes to the club..... interesting times ahead but should all be positive just now anyway.

[David]

5 hours ago, wellfan said:

However, any club with such a race-to-the-bottom mentality as its minimum target for its manager will continue to tread water and achieve nothing other than an annual shit fight for 10th.

No, any club that sets a top-six finish as a "bare minimum" when, like it or not, we're operating on a bottom-six budget will continue to fall short of those demands fairly often and see the manager and coaching team constantly changed, which does nothing to help us progress.

That said, "bare minimum" doesn't mean the manager is invincible—far from it. What it means is that we're not speculating with our financial outlay, and we're making sure that if the bare minimum is what we accomplish, we won't be facing financial ruin.

In the previous five years, we've finished in the top six two times, which is a 40% success rate, so we're doing not too badly.

And to think that 40% was attained by two managers who the usual suspects on here lambasted during their time at the club. 

[steelboy]

1 hour ago, David said:

No, any club that sets a top-six finish as a "bare minimum" when, like it or not, we're operating on a bottom-six budget will continue to fall short of those demands fairly often and see the manager and coaching team constantly changed, which does nothing to help us progress.

 

The most recent accounts show spending us £8 million pounds in season 22/23. St Mirren's accounts show they spent £6.3m. Kilmarnock's accounts show £7.5 million.

It will be different this season but not hugely.

 

[David]

3 hours ago, steelboy said:

The most recent accounts show spending us £8 million pounds in season 22/23. St Mirren's accounts show they spent £6.3m. Kilmarnock's accounts show £7.5 million.

It will be different this season but not hugely.

And I wouldn't think Kilmarnock or St Mirren should be placing a "top six as a bare minimum" condition on their manager either.

For me, the following clubs in Scotland are the ones who should be setting a "top six minimum" condition on their managers:

• Hearts
• Hibs
• Aberdeen
• Dundee United

The likes of us, Kilmarnock, St Mirren, Dundee etc should be aiming for top six absolutely, and especially if any of those clubs falter, which often happens, but it should not be considered a "bare minimum."

[David]

Dundee United, while insanely managed at the moment, are a big Scottish club with a top six budget I'd reckon. They should be up there or thereabouts most seasons.

[wellfan]

6 hours ago, David said:

No, any club that sets a top-six finish as a "bare minimum" when, like it or not, we're operating on a bottom-six budget will continue to fall short of those demands fairly often and see the manager and coaching team constantly changed, which does nothing to help us progress.

No, that's not what I wrote, and you've chosen to critique the top 6 comment in isolation, like others have done. 

I wrote: "Top six and, more so, a good cup run should be the absolute minimum targets set each season for the manager". The clue is in my adding the "more so" meaning I regard the cup run as being the most realistic and reasonable of minimums. 

[David]

50 minutes ago, wellfan said:

No, that's not what I wrote, and you've chosen to critique the top 6 comment in isolation, like others have done. 

I wrote: "Top six and, more so, a good cup run should be the absolute minimum targets set each season for the manager". The clue is in my adding the "more so" meaning I regard the cup run as being the most realistic and reasonable of minimums. 

Ah, okay. So you not only want a top six finish as a minimum requirement, but also a cup run. 

A cup run, as others have said, is a bit of a lottery. We can't really rely on that as a minimum target. Just the same as we can't rely on a top six finish as a minimum requirement.

[wellfan]

8 hours ago, David said:

Ah, okay. So you not only want a top six finish as a minimum requirement, but also a cup run. 

A cup run, as others have said, is a bit of a lottery. We can't really rely on that as a minimum target. Just the same as we can't rely on a top six finish as a minimum requirement.

And that's just your opinion which, as I've argued elsewhere, represents a pessimistic outlook that will only see us standing still at best or slowly falling behind over time. 

[David]

4 hours ago, wellfan said:

And that's just your opinion which, as I've argued elsewhere, represents a pessimistic outlook that will only see us standing still at best or slowly falling behind over time. 

Have you ever watched a cup draw? It's quite literally a lottery. 

[Spiderpig]

2 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Killie are sitting fourth and could offer Van Veen 10k a week and we couldn't (no regrets over that). It's not an even playing field and surely that has to be a consideration when setting targets. 

I'd rather be a club that backed a manager who didn't get top six than have a revolving door of management like Hibs have. 

Not strictly true re Kilmarnock, Billy Bowie the owner/ majority shareholder or whatever he is, was paying over 6k of KVv's wages out of his own pocket, Killie were only paying the other 3 or 4k, which is probably on a par with what we could offer, but considering the impact KVV had it was a huge waste of money.

[sinjy]

Season 23/24 nearly over and it has been a bit of a meh season. Nothing to get excited about, out of the cups early, never looking like getting top six and safe from relegation with three games to go.. The usual suspects on here decrying the manager and their favoured fall guys.

Kettlewell is stuck on 5-3-2 and only changes this when we are chasing the game and he puts on a load of forwards. The lack of wide players in the squad means we are relying on wing backs to get forward. This puts a lot on them and often they get subbed off and replaced like for like.

He has had to deal with an excessive amount of injuries to important players. McGinn 6 games, Casey 9 games, Slattery missed last five months of the season, Miller 12 games, Obika all season, Paton 8 games Blaney 5 games, Butcher 14 games. Bieruth 6 games. Add to that the recall of Bieruth and Spencer.

Recruitment has on the whole been good. Negatives Wilkinson, Obika, Shaw, and Halliday. Positives Bieruth, Bair, Spencer, Paton, Gent, Vale. Ok Nicholson and Devine.

Kettlewell has improved players. Bair, Spittal, Miller and Gent especially with loanees being recalled after their clubs recognised their improvement after successful spells.

He appears to be a good motivator as despite the long run without a win the players stuck with him. How many times did we score late goals to get a draw or a win? God knows how he keeps them interested as his team talks must last ages if his interviews are anything to go by.

Despite losing Van Veen we are the third top scorers in the league. Problems are clearly in defence and he hasn't managed to sort that out.

Big summer ahead. Recruitment needs to be good again and he needs to find a couple of diamonds to improve us.

I saw my first game over sixty years ago and I will be back next year to support the team and the manager.

[Kmcalpin]

A very good summing up Sinjy.

[bobbybingo]

2 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Obika hasn't missed all season. He's made ten appearances and scored an equaliser at Celtic Park. 

Just feels like he's missed all season. Certainly not a successful re-signing.

[Spiderpig]

5 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Obika hasn't missed all season. He's made ten appearances and scored an equaliser at Celtic Park. 

Out of those ten appearances the only one anyone knew he was playing was the goal against Celtic, he's right up there with Peter Brady.

[bobbybingo]

41 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

he's right up there with Peter Brady.

But who got through more bandages?

[joewarkfanclub]

23 hours ago, sinjy said:

Season 23/24 nearly over and it has been a bit of a meh season. Nothing to get excited about, out of the cups early, never looking like getting top six and safe from relegation with three games to go.. The usual suspects on here decrying the manager and their favoured fall guys.

Kettlewell is stuck on 5-3-2 and only changes this when we are chasing the game and he puts on a load of forwards. The lack of wide players in the squad means we are relying on wing backs to get forward. This puts a lot on them and often they get subbed off and replaced like for like.

He has had to deal with an excessive amount of injuries to important players. McGinn 6 games, Casey 9 games, Slattery missed last five months of the season, Miller 12 games, Obika all season, Paton 8 games Blaney 5 games, Butcher 14 games. Bieruth 6 games. Add to that the recall of Bieruth and Spencer.

Recruitment has on the whole been good. Negatives Wilkinson, Obika, Shaw, and Halliday. Positives Bieruth, Bair, Spencer, Paton, Gent, Vale. Ok Nicholson and Devine.

Kettlewell has improved players. Bair, Spittal, Miller and Gent especially with loanees being recalled after their clubs recognised their improvement after successful spells.

He appears to be a good motivator as despite the long run without a win the players stuck with him. How many times did we score late goals to get a draw or a win? God knows how he keeps them interested as his team talks must last ages if his interviews are anything to go by.

Despite losing Van Veen we are the third top scorers in the league. Problems are clearly in defence and he hasn't managed to sort that out.

Big summer ahead. Recruitment needs to be good again and he needs to find a couple of diamonds to improve us.

I saw my first game over sixty years ago and I will be back next year to support the team and the manager.

Great post! 💙💙💙

[Onthefringes]

47 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Great post! 💙💙💙

Except ‘stuck on 5-3-2’ is a myth… 

[star sail]

On 5/17/2024 at 10:07 AM, sinjy said:

Season 23/24 nearly over and it has been a bit of a meh season. Nothing to get excited about, out of the cups early, never looking like getting top six and safe from relegation with three games to go.. The usual suspects on here decrying the manager and their favoured fall guys.

Kettlewell is stuck on 5-3-2 and only changes this when we are chasing the game and he puts on a load of forwards. The lack of wide players in the squad means we are relying on wing backs to get forward. This puts a lot on them and often they get subbed off and replaced like for like.

He has had to deal with an excessive amount of injuries to important players. McGinn 6 games, Casey 9 games, Slattery missed last five months of the season, Miller 12 games, Obika all season, Paton 8 games Blaney 5 games, Butcher 14 games. Bieruth 6 games. Add to that the recall of Bieruth and Spencer.

Recruitment has on the whole been good. Negatives Wilkinson, Obika, Shaw, and Halliday. Positives Bieruth, Bair, Spencer, Paton, Gent, Vale. Ok Nicholson and Devine.

Kettlewell has improved players. Bair, Spittal, Miller and Gent especially with loanees being recalled after their clubs recognised their improvement after successful spells.

He appears to be a good motivator as despite the long run without a win the players stuck with him. How many times did we score late goals to get a draw or a win? God knows how he keeps them interested as his team talks must last ages if his interviews are anything to go by.

Despite losing Van Veen we are the third top scorers in the league. Problems are clearly in defence and he hasn't managed to sort that out.

Big summer ahead. Recruitment needs to be good again and he needs to find a couple of diamonds to improve us.

I saw my first game over sixty years ago and I will be back next year to support the team and the manager.

This is a very good summary of the season. I think there has actually been a consistency to the season that is overshadowed a little by the winless run in the winter.

Without dazzling or ever really being comprehensibly thumped it has generally been a mediocre season. This seems strange to say when we have been really competitive against the OF and we got th long awaited league victory against Rangers 

Looking at Kettlewell's record as a whole over one and a half seasons, I think there is reason to believe we have the makings of a decent manager who will improve with time. He reminds me a little of Derek McInnes, never sensational, never completely at sea just steady making incremental improvements.

If that incremental improvement continues Wellfan could get his wish of a top 6 finish and I think it is reasonable for him ( and all of us) to set that as the next target .

Overall I think the club has reached an equilibrium just now that will serve as a good basis to push on to greater things.

I am excited for next season but then I am a self aware happy clapper. Looking forward to my hands being red raw next season.

[joewarkfanclub]

10 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Except ‘stuck on 5-3-2’ is a myth… 

Well aye.

Its more a 5-4-1 come 3-4-2-1 or some variation.

But apart from that its a great post.

Other formations are available, but positivity wins!

[MJC]

He won’t do.

I’m sorry but he just won’t. His tactics, lineups and general attitude is awful. 
 

I want to back him but I just can’t because he is taking us nowhere.

Time to go.

#troll #pantywetter

[wellfan]

49 minutes ago, MJC said:

He won’t do.

I’m sorry but he just won’t. His tactics, lineups and general attitude is awful. 
 

I want to back him but I just can’t because he is taking us nowhere.

Time to go.

#troll #pantywetter

He should’ve been gone following the dreadful run in the first half of last season, but he’s not and we’re stuck with him. It’s the same shit, different season, but maybe some of his biggest fans may finally start to realise that this season. 

[Spiderpig]

Just now, wellfan said:

He should’ve been gone following the dreadful run in the first half of last season, but he’s not and we’re stuck with him. It’s the same shit, different season, but maybe some of his biggest fans may finally start to realise that this season. 

Eat, sleep, rave about how shit SK is, repeat...ad infinitum 🤦‍♂️